Pivot Pins 443B

MaxW · Aug 22, 2012

Working on what must be the worst Bob-Tach ever on our 443B, missing parts, every part frozen with either rust or concrete inside. But that's another story. The pivot pins that hold the Bob-Tach on to the lift arms are worn out. I call the local dealer and the guy will not actually look up the part and give me an exact price, he just ball parks a price range $60 to $90, I assume that's for each pin, and of course it's a multi week wait to order in the parts. Not impressed with this Dealer. I suspect the Bob-Tach and the pivot pins are different on these small machines then what is on the newer larger machines. What are my options, are there any other sources for the pivot pins other then the dealer? Even if these pins are ground and hardened tool steel I would not expect them to be in the range the local dealer quoted. Also, if I have to sleave the Bob-Tach what is the process? Thanks

Bobcatdan · Aug 23, 2012

Those pins would be a lot smaller then a standard size bobcat. I would be surpise if we stock those, don't see many of the little bumble bugs. The pins for what they are can be spenty, $50 or so a piece.

Tazza · Aug 23, 2012

Bobcatdan said:
Those pins would be a lot smaller then a standard size bobcat. I would be surpise if we stock those, don't see many of the little bumble bugs. The pins for what they are can be spenty, $50 or so a piece.

I was going to say, the price does sound about right....
In the past for my own machines, i have put the pins in my lathe and cleaned up the wear and pressed on a 4140 sleeve to bring it back to the correct diameter.
Sadly, that is not the worst wear i have seen, i had a machine far worse than that. So bad that the bosses needed removing from the bobtach and new ones welding in.
Do you have another dealer that is not so close and get them to ship them to you? Most will bend over backwards to help you, others don't give a crap.

MaxW · Aug 23, 2012

Tazza said:
I was going to say, the price does sound about right....
In the past for my own machines, i have put the pins in my lathe and cleaned up the wear and pressed on a 4140 sleeve to bring it back to the correct diameter.
Sadly, that is not the worst wear i have seen, i had a machine far worse than that. So bad that the bosses needed removing from the bobtach and new ones welding in.
Do you have another dealer that is not so close and get them to ship them to you? Most will bend over backwards to help you, others don't give a crap.

The dealer over on the mainland is working on an actual quote for pivot pins as well as most of the parts inside the Bob-tach. Hopefully he will email that over to me tomorrow morning. I think the local dealer has figured out what pays and what doesn't. Stocking parts doesn't pay, placing orders more than once a week doesn't pay, and expediting shipping doesn't pay. Looking up part numbers and quoting prices for parts for 19 year old machines owned by private individuals doesn't pay. Selling new machines to construction companies and rental companies pays! Given they are the only dealer in town they can get away with lumping all their parts orders into a weekly stocking order and the customers have to deal with it. I was at one of the large rental outfits that have six or more machines and I talked to the guys there about their experiences with getting parts from the dealer. He said they have to wait for their parts as well, and that's just the way it is. I think most of their customers just phone up and order what they need, don't ask how much, don't ask if it's in stock, and will just wait for a couple weeks for it so show up with the typical Bobcat price tag$$$. Ya know, I'm not trying to hack this dealer. I'm sure these days they are more interested in keeping the doors open then dealing with a guy spending a few hundred trying to restore a single old machine. Now just because I might understand this doesn't mean I like it, and I'll still be shopping around for better service, better prices, and non dealer sources for parts. As for the pins, if they are $60-$90 each, that's a little difficult for those of us unaccustomed to understanding the magic Bobcat fairy dust that they put into their special hydraulic oil and their other parts that make them worth all the dollars. I see a 2-3/4" length of 1" diameter steel with a ground taper and a single 1/2" threaded hole that isn't $20 and I have to wonder why and if there is another source other then turning it myself on the lathe? Is it forged, a specialty steel, 8000 series gear steel, X-ray tested, case hardened, through hardened? What would make this worth over $50 other then magic Bobcat fairy dust? I'm sure in time I will come to appreciate the magic that makes up Bobcat parts, but seeing as I'm still new to all this you will have to forgive me for being like a three year old and always asking WHY! Ok, enough of story time. How about another question. If you look carefully at the picture you will see bits of white paint stuck to the taper section of the pin. This goes against everything I know about the types of machine tool tapers I see on lathes and mills. It took heat and a large hammer to pop these pins. I can't know if someone had the pins out and painted the arms and got paint into the pin hole or if that is the way they came from the factory. Anyone else find residual paint on their pins? I may try doing the sleeve. Tazza, did you have any problem turning down the pin to remove the oval before you pressed on the sleeve? Is the pin material soft enough to machine or do you have a grinder on your lathe? Did you case harden the 4140 sleeve?

Tazza · Aug 23, 2012

MaxW said:
The dealer over on the mainland is working on an actual quote for pivot pins as well as most of the parts inside the Bob-tach. Hopefully he will email that over to me tomorrow morning. I think the local dealer has figured out what pays and what doesn't. Stocking parts doesn't pay, placing orders more than once a week doesn't pay, and expediting shipping doesn't pay. Looking up part numbers and quoting prices for parts for 19 year old machines owned by private individuals doesn't pay. Selling new machines to construction companies and rental companies pays! Given they are the only dealer in town they can get away with lumping all their parts orders into a weekly stocking order and the customers have to deal with it. I was at one of the large rental outfits that have six or more machines and I talked to the guys there about their experiences with getting parts from the dealer. He said they have to wait for their parts as well, and that's just the way it is. I think most of their customers just phone up and order what they need, don't ask how much, don't ask if it's in stock, and will just wait for a couple weeks for it so show up with the typical Bobcat price tag$$$. Ya know, I'm not trying to hack this dealer. I'm sure these days they are more interested in keeping the doors open then dealing with a guy spending a few hundred trying to restore a single old machine. Now just because I might understand this doesn't mean I like it, and I'll still be shopping around for better service, better prices, and non dealer sources for parts. As for the pins, if they are $60-$90 each, that's a little difficult for those of us unaccustomed to understanding the magic Bobcat fairy dust that they put into their special hydraulic oil and their other parts that make them worth all the dollars. I see a 2-3/4" length of 1" diameter steel with a ground taper and a single 1/2" threaded hole that isn't $20 and I have to wonder why and if there is another source other then turning it myself on the lathe? Is it forged, a specialty steel, 8000 series gear steel, X-ray tested, case hardened, through hardened? What would make this worth over $50 other then magic Bobcat fairy dust? I'm sure in time I will come to appreciate the magic that makes up Bobcat parts, but seeing as I'm still new to all this you will have to forgive me for being like a three year old and always asking WHY! Ok, enough of story time. How about another question. If you look carefully at the picture you will see bits of white paint stuck to the taper section of the pin. This goes against everything I know about the types of machine tool tapers I see on lathes and mills. It took heat and a large hammer to pop these pins. I can't know if someone had the pins out and painted the arms and got paint into the pin hole or if that is the way they came from the factory. Anyone else find residual paint on their pins? I may try doing the sleeve. Tazza, did you have any problem turning down the pin to remove the oval before you pressed on the sleeve? Is the pin material soft enough to machine or do you have a grinder on your lathe? Did you case harden the 4140 sleeve?

The steel is hard, but if you have tungsten it is more than machinable. It did take a bit of time, a few burns later and a lot of blue chips it was done.

MaxW · Aug 25, 2012

Tazza said:
The steel is hard, but if you have tungsten it is more than machinable. It did take a bit of time, a few burns later and a lot of blue chips it was done.

Does Bobcat use a standard taper? My measurements which are somewhat questionable give an angle of approximatly 3.4-3.5 degrees. Is there an inch per foot specification? Did they copy one of the machine tool spec's?

OldMachinist · Aug 25, 2012

MaxW said:
Does Bobcat use a standard taper? My measurements which are somewhat questionable give an angle of approximatly 3.4-3.5 degrees. Is there an inch per foot specification? Did they copy one of the machine tool spec's?

Your pins look about how mine did when I replaced them and bushed the BobTach.

I checked the taper on my old pins and came up with .0625" per inch per side or 3 degrees 34 minites 35 seconds of angle from the center line. This is 1.5" taper per foot total and none of the machine tool tapers use it.
To check the taper I used 2 dial indicators with the part between centers. One to get exactly 1" of travel and one to measure the taper per inch per side.

MaxW · Aug 26, 2012

OldMachinist said:
Your pins look about how mine did when I replaced them and bushed the BobTach.

I checked the taper on my old pins and came up with .0625" per inch per side or 3 degrees 34 minites 35 seconds of angle from the center line. This is 1.5" taper per foot total and none of the machine tool tapers use it.
To check the taper I used 2 dial indicators with the part between centers. One to get exactly 1" of travel and one to measure the taper per inch per side.

Thanks OldMachinist. Using dial gauges makes perfect sence. I'll have to remember that technique. Easy, once someone shows you how. It's always good to learn something new. It also makes sence that Bobcat would use a 1.5" per foot taper because then they could use the tooling and reamers the Truck guys use for ball joints and tie rod ends.

tdubliture · Mar 20, 2018

MaxW said:
Thanks OldMachinist. Using dial gauges makes perfect sence. I'll have to remember that technique. Easy, once someone shows you how. It's always good to learn something new. It also makes sence that Bobcat would use a 1.5" per foot taper because then they could use the tooling and reamers the Truck guys use for ball joints and tie rod ends.

I know this is a really old post but how did this turn out? Im looking at replacing my pivot pins and upon pulling them out i noticed that the bushings on the bobtach that these pivot on are also shot. bobcat sells the bushings but you have to cut and weld them into place. sounds like a lot of work. just wondering what you ended up doing as I am also on a budget

Tazza · Mar 25, 2018

tdubliture said:
I know this is a really old post but how did this turn out? Im looking at replacing my pivot pins and upon pulling them out i noticed that the bushings on the bobtach that these pivot on are also shot. bobcat sells the bushings but you have to cut and weld them into place. sounds like a lot of work. just wondering what you ended up doing as I am also on a budget

I actually had to cut and weld a set into the machine my dad has. If you have the gear, it's actually not that hard of a job, it just takes time to do.

tdubliture · Mar 26, 2018

Tazza said:
I actually had to cut and weld a set into the machine my dad has. If you have the gear, it's actually not that hard of a job, it just takes time to do.

Looking at the bushings, on the hinge I am just wondering if it is plausable to have a machine shop bore out a bigger hole and put a sleeve in. then you would only have to replace the sleeve if it ever wore again

Tazza · Mar 26, 2018

tdubliture said:
Looking at the bushings, on the hinge I am just wondering if it is plausable to have a machine shop bore out a bigger hole and put a sleeve in. then you would only have to replace the sleeve if it ever wore again

I looked at getting mine machined, the issue is how to line both sides so they are in perfect alignment?. I made new bosses so i could remove the bushings if they ever wore out.

Pivot Pins 443B

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