Water in Hydraulic Oil

[Napper2]

Hello, I have an early 80s Owatonna Mustang 545 skid loader. It has around 4700 hours. I have owned it for 3 years or so and have had very few problems (fuel pump, fuel filter, small radiator leak). It is a large machine for its day and works great for me until recently.

I live in MN and use the machine for wood harvest and pushing snow. I have a grapple bucket and a log splitter attachment. When I first bought the machine the hydraulic oil in the site glass was nice a nice clear red color. Over time it started to become more pink and cloudy. I know water intrusion from somewhere, but where??? The resivor tank is large, holds 15 gallons. It has a factory cap on top of tank with a breather hose running off and down the side.

After a cold snap this winter minus 15 or so, I plugged in the block heater and fired her up. I immediately noticed oil shooting out of one of the hydraulic filters. I shut it down and noticed the filter was loose. I tightened back up and added more hydraulic fluid. When I started it again the pressure popped the filter completely off. I then saw the threads were damaged on the filter housing. I ordered a used replacement and installed. By this time 12-13 gallons of fluid had escaped from the reservoir I put on a new filter added fluid and fired her up. By now the temperature was around freezing.

I used the skid loader with no problems off and on for a couple of months. Fast forward to another cold snap -10 or so. Again plugged in and started up. Again same filter spraying fluid from top gasket and filter tilted to side.

It seems to me the water in the hydraulic fluid is ending up in the filter and when it gets cold freezes, expands and has no where to go and pops the filter. I am trying to dry the system out by changing the fluid, but there is always a gallon or 2 left in the bottom of the tank because the drain plugs sit a couple of inches above the bottom.

Let me know if you need more information.

Any help on correcting this problem would be much appreciated!!!

Jason

 

[SkidRoe]

I have drill-driven pump that I use for instances like this - I use it to pump out my chain case. Add a length of hose or tube and pump out that last little bit.

HTH

 

[Napper2]

I have drill-driven pump that I use for instances like this - I use it to pump out my chain case. Add a length of hose or tube and pump out that last little bit.

HTH

Great thanks for the idea. Where did you find the drill driven pump?

Jason

 

[SkidRoe]

Pretty much any decent hardware store - Lowes, Home Depot, TSC, etc.

Everbilt Drill Pump Kit PUP63_HD - The Home Depot

The Everbilt drill pump kit delivers 260 GPH (3500 RPM) or 60 GPH (800 RPM) and works with most electric drills. The drill pump is designed for multiple purposes including, dishwashers, clogged sinks,

www.homedepot.com

HTH

 

[Napper2]

Perfect thanks!

Jason

 

[Wayne440]

If you think the filter is acting as a water trap, consider taking it off and pouring it out once in a while. You will have to top off the hydraulic fluid, but that is less trouble and money than
replacing a larger amount of spilled fluid and blown out filter.

 

[Napper2]

If you think the filter is acting as a water trap, consider taking it off and pouring it out once in a while. You will have to top off the hydraulic fluid, but that is less trouble and money than
replacing a larger amount of spilled fluid and blown out filter.

Thanks! Sometimes I don't think of the simple fixes.

Jason

 

[Mustang Guy]

Curious what weight of oil you're using? I use multi-grade hydraulic oil in all my equipment ISO AW 32/46/68. Works great in all weather conditions.

Also, instead of changing oil to get the water out just polish it. I have a pump setup where I suck the oil out through a Goldenrod coalescing filter into clean five gallon pails, then suck it from the pails through the filter and back into the machine. You can also "boil" the moisture out by putting magnet heaters underneath the reservoir. Shouldn't be any moisture at all in a hydraulic system.

 

[Napper2]

Curious what weight of oil you're using? I use multi-grade hydraulic oil in all my equipment ISO AW 32/46/68. Works great in all weather conditions.

Also, instead of changing oil to get the water out just polish it. I have a pump setup where I suck the oil out through a Goldenrod coalescing filter into clean five gallon pails, then suck it from the pails through the filter and back into the machine. You can also "boil" the moisture out by putting magnet heaters underneath the reservoir. Shouldn't be any moisture at all in a hydraulic system.

Hello, recommended hydraulic oil for this machine is ATF. That's what has always been in it. Would the oil you use be a better choice? What type/kind/brand of pump do you use to move the oil through the filters? Thanks for your advice so far!

 

[Napper2]

Also I looked on internet and Goldenrod has lots of coalescing fuel filters but I couldn't find any specific to oil. Could you send me the specifics on your set up?

Thanks for helping me out!

 

[Mustang Guy]

Also I looked on internet and Goldenrod has lots of coalescing fuel filters but I couldn't find any specific to oil. Could you send me the specifics on your set up?

Thanks for helping me out!

I'll post a pic of my setup shortly.

 

[Napper2]

Another thing that I remember is when it gets super cold out, the bucket tilt goes down, pushing the whole skid loader into a "wheelie" position. This happens slowly over time when it is not running. It doesn't always do it either, especially if the filter blows out first I guess!

Could this be the water in the hydraulic oil freezing, expanding, and somehow activating the tilt cylinders out?

 

[Mustang Guy]

Here's my system. I can suck from anywhere and pump to anywhere. It's currently set up for transferring fuel because I had fuel tank issues.

 

[Mustang Guy]

Another thing that I remember is when it gets super cold out, the bucket tilt goes down, pushing the whole skid loader into a "wheelie" position. This happens slowly over time when it is not running. It doesn't always do it either, especially if the filter blows out first I guess!

Could this be the water in the hydraulic oil freezing, expanding, and somehow activating the tilt cylinders out?

You would have to have an awful lot of water emulsified in the oil to do that. Your oil would be almost white. I think that somehow you're getting pump discharge pressure to your filter. The bucket uncurling suggests a spool isn't centering. How are control linkage adjustments?

 

[Napper2]

Thanks for the pictures. That is a nice set up. Do you use the same type of filter for oil? I have those on my fuel barrels. Also what is the brass housing with the clamp lid? Is there another cartridge filter in there?

Yes there was/is quite a bit of water in the oil. At the filter when it blows it is a very frothy pink with a snow cone like ice consistency. Up towards top of tank where site glass is the color is a cloudy pink color.

Took both filters off and putting magnetic heater on tank tonight as you suggested.

Linkage to hydraulics seems fine to me neither raising or lower stick either direction and stop when in neutral position.

 

[Mustang Guy]

Thanks for the pictures. That is a nice set up. Do you use the same type of filter for oil?

Yes, I forgot to mention it.

I have those on my fuel barrels. Also what is the brass housing with the clamp lid? Is there another cartridge filter in there?

That is a very fine (about 200µ) cleanable bronze strainer. It will trap diesel bug sludge and metal particles before the filter. It isn't a very sophisticated setup like a polisher, but it cleans the hydraulic oil good enough for chain case service, imho.

Yes there was/is quite a bit of water in the oil. At the filter when it blows it is a very frothy pink with a snow cone like ice consistency. Up towards top of tank where site glass is the color is a cloudy pink color.

Man, that's a lot of water!

Took both filters off and putting magnetic heater on tank tonight as you suggested.

Leave the vent/fill cap off so the moisture can escape, cover with screen. The hotter the better. With that much moisture it will take a couple of days with the heat applied.

Linkage to hydraulics seems fine to me neither raising or lower stick either direction and stop when in neutral position.

Have you ever cleaned the valve stack? Like taken it apart to inspect the spools?

 

[Napper2]

Thanks for all the info.

No I have not taken anything like that apart before. Where would I start? Anything I should know before I would tackle this?

 

[Mustang Guy]

Thanks for all the info.

No I have not taken anything like that apart before. Where would I start? Anything I should know before I would tackle this?

I'm not familiar with your particular machine, but there may be solenoid interlocks, control cables, and various hoses. Some circuits may be hard piped. It's a pretty tedious task for someone who has never done it, or has limited skill sets. Perhaps there is another member that will chime in that has specific knowledge of your machine that could walk you through it.

Btw, here is real oil polishing:

Oil Polishing – Sunset Filtration Products

www.sunsetfiltration.com

 

[Napper2]

Thanks again. I would be very surprised if someone else has running 545. I haven't been able to find one yet! Been looking for 2 years.

 

[koko]

Another thing that I remember is when it gets super cold out, the bucket tilt goes down, pushing the whole skid loader into a "wheelie" position. This happens slowly over time when it is not running. It doesn't always do it either, especially if the filter blows out first I guess!

Could this be the water in the hydraulic oil freezing, expanding, and somehow activating the tilt cylinders out?

Your tilt going down after sitting some time is probably your tilt cylinders by passing at the piston inside the cylinder or leaking oil at the wiper sleeve on the rod.I say this as I purchased a Bobcat T300 this fall, 4,000 hrs., & noticed when it was parked for a week or two that the tilt would slowly go down. The machine didn't have any noticeable leaks sitting outside & around the cylinders was just a 'misting' of oil, just enough to catch the dust....nothing unusual.
Well this winter we've had a lot of snow & some cold temps in west central Alberta so I thought I would park the machine in my warm shop. That's when I discovered the leaks on my cement floor. Oil spots on my floor drives me NUTZ! Mostly from the rod wiper seals. I am currently just finishing up putting all seals in all four cylinders together & installing. Also will make a few new bushings & new joint pins for all connections. Before I fire up the machine I'm going to suck the oil out of the hydraulic tank & clean anything at the bottom, then change filters & add fresh oil. I have filtering systems as mentioned above & may run the used oil through them before judging whether to use the used oil again.