T650 rail pressure issues

[drillpro]

I wanted to get some feed back about my recent and ongoing repairs with the Bobcat dealer, I'll try to keep it short.

During a routine maintenance my (new) mechanic primed the system by adding full to the Fuel filter before installing. (big no no) After completion of PM the unit started to spit and sputter ultimately dyeing on us. After a few unsuccessful attempts to get the machine started we were forced to bring the unit to the dealer for repairs.

When the unit was dropped off we explained how fuel was added to the filter and that I questioned the fuel he used. They ran the diagnoses and deemed that we needed to replace the fuel system. Pump, lines, rails, and injectors ($11,000). The report showed that the rail pressure was 4200PSI and we were told that was well below what it should be. So we approved the repair and waited for the machine to be completed.

Fast forward to the day the unit was said to be ready, on the morning of I got a phone call that the unit was having issues again and needed to be looked at. They found that the pick up tube was bad and there was debris in the tank. They then suggested we replace the tank, reluctant to spend another 10k I suggested to clean the tank out, replace the pick up tube and add an inline filter to collect any trash that may remain in the tank. The service manager agreed with this solution, they made the repairs and we picked up the unit two days later.

This brings me to where we are now. On the first project the machine broke down again in the same fashion it did initially. So we had to have it towed back (another $1,600) and I am being told we need a new fuel tank.

My issue is, and has been expressed to them, that I have a hard time believing we needed to replace the fuel system and that if it was diagnosed properly the tank would have been replaced to start and the fuel system cleaned (at worse new injectors and lines). Let it be noted that during the initial diagnosis they found Debris (sludge) in the fuel rail.

Its also my belief (and I correct me if I'm wrong) but the pick up tube being bad/split and having debris could have easily resulted in the initial low rail pressure diag. I have requested the results of the most resent rail pressure numbers (after we brought it back from that first job) but they have yet to provide anything.

We are currently at a stand still because we are requesting some accountability on this repair. The dealership should be a place we can confidently bring are equipment for a proper diagnosis and repair. But time and time again (with trucks too) its more of a remove and replace money grab.

Any suggestions?

 

[foton]

so what I got outta this is that the mech. primed the fuel filter with contaminated fuel. but the fuel tank is bad too? I kinda think the fuel tank was the problem just waiting to happen. In case you have a bulk fuel tank I would check it (pull a sample OFF THE BOTTOM) and look at it very well before I used any more out of it. I prime my filter when ever I can but I always use freshly filtered fuel nothing that has been in a can laying out.

 

[drillpro]

Correct, the fuel tank is the problem. The contaminated fuel that was used in the filter was thought to be the problem and where the problem started so I wanted to leave that information in. And yes, priming the ball is the way to do it. Also, my onsite tanks have been tested, I locked them out as soon as the fuel was in question. They test came back clean.

I guess my question is, with the fuel pick up tube being clogged, would that restrict the high pressure fuel pump showing 50% pressure required?

I'm upset we changed the $10k fuel system (Pump, rail, injectors) when the issue may have only been a clogged fuel pick up from the dirty tank.

 

[foton]

yeah that hurts da billfold, it is unfortunate that sometimes we just have to guess at things and sometimes guess wrong. by chance can you salvage the parts that there might be nothing wrong with and store them for future use,as a just in case. And I would think it is more than possible that a restriction can easily effect the amount of flow that is required for the machine to operate correctly.

 

[drillpro]

I have not gave approval on the tank repair yet. I feel like the dealer should hold some responsibility on the misdiagnosis.

 

[Equipment_Tech]

I have worked at a few dealers throughout the years, you always have to test not guess and unfortunately I have seen at other dealers them just guessing instead of testing and that is wrong

I would not change your fuel tank unless there is a hole or crack and its leaking somewhere

There is a drain on the tank, drain the entire tank if you suspect dirt inside or you can even power wash it out after draining it

If you had a clogged pickup tube, than yes your rail pressure will be low and could cause possible damage to pump, injectors but more so the metering valve on the pump itself

Unfortunately the dealer only sells a complete pump but you could have purchase the metering valve separate from the manufacturer direct for about 600 Canadian

Hope this helps and if you need any additional help just private message me

 

[ward]

After washing out the tank spray a liberal amount of 91% rubbing alcohol in the tank as it will pick up the water and flush it out, then purge it with air and it will dry out quite quickly, I did this on a job site to a John Deere 160 excavator hat got caught in a marsh area on the lower Potomac River about 60 miles south of Washington DC, when the tide came in they went out to the machine on a boat and hand dipped the fuel out of the tank as the tide came in, they had started their day setting pads to run the machine on and had set 4 or 5 ouf them the operator swung around to get another one and the next thing he knew he was looking at the sky, he swung around and stuck the boom down and the machine stopped sinking as the floor was going in the mud, it was about a 30 k lb machine, they brought in 3 cat 977 to pull it out then called us to get it running, funny thing with it tipped on its nose the engine never went under water when the tide came in.

 

[drillpro]

Thanks Ward, Unfortunately this unit does not have the drain plug. (not sure why bobcat wouldn't place them on all units) So we will just install a new tank rather than cleaning this one out.

Sounds like a project we had last year... Sunk a drill rig in some soft sands out near the coast, ended up being 2' over the tracks. Took 2 bobcats and a 20k winch block to get it out. And about a week of cleaning and repairs.

 

[drillpro]

I have worked at a few dealers throughout the years, you always have to test not guess and unfortunately I have seen at other dealers them just guessing instead of testing and that is wrong

I would not change your fuel tank unless there is a hole or crack and its leaking somewhere

There is a drain on the tank, drain the entire tank if you suspect dirt inside or you can even power wash it out after draining it

If you had a clogged pickup tube, than yes your rail pressure will be low and could cause possible damage to pump, injectors but more so the metering valve on the pump itself

Unfortunately the dealer only sells a complete pump but you could have purchase the metering valve separate from the manufacturer direct for about 600 Canadian

Hope this helps and if you need any additional help just private message me

Thanks. That's our biggest frustration with this one. Playing a guessing game at someone else expense, they need to be accountable. Hopefully leads to better decisions for the next guy.

 

[Equipment_Tech]

Thanks Ward, Unfortunately this unit does not have the drain plug. (not sure why bobcat wouldn't place them on all units) So we will just install a new tank rather than cleaning this one out.

Sounds like a project we had last year... Sunk a drill rig in some soft sands out near the coast, ended up being 2' over the tracks. Took 2 bobcats and a 20k winch block to get it out. And about a week of cleaning and repairs.

I'm like 95 percent positive that tank has a drain, I have flushed them in the past before but can't remember the exact location. Funny thing is the dealer told us we had to replace the tank as well this is why I remember this. I will check the diagram

 

[ward]

Thanks Ward, Unfortunately this unit does not have the drain plug. (not sure why bobcat wouldn't place them on all units) So we will just install a new tank rather than cleaning this one out.

Sounds like a project we had last year... Sunk a drill rig in some soft sands out near the coast, ended up being 2' over the tracks. Took 2 bobcats and a 20k winch block to get it out. And about a week of cleaning and repairs.

2' over the tracks can make it look like you lost your drive, I did not see it, however we did have a customer think he could drive an excavator out in to a pond, I took the service call and he told me that it had lost drive but the rest of the functions worked ok, I sent the then road mechanic out, and he called and said they have it in about 5' of water and were high centered, the tracks just made a small ripple in the water, they called and asked me how to get it out, I told them that was their problem because if I hired a tow rig it would cost more as I would have to mark it up.

 

[drillpro]

I'm like 95 percent positive that tank has a drain, I have flushed them in the past before but can't remember the exact location. Funny thing is the dealer told us we had to replace the tank as well this is why I remember this. I will check the diagram

Stealership*