T190 - Hydraulic fluid spraying out from hose area that goes into track wheel

[CCM]

T190 - Hydraulic fluid spraying out from hose that goes into track wheel Hello everyone. I'm new to the site. I hope you guys can help me out on this. Ran the machine pretty hard today and all the sudden the T190 went into shut down mode. Got the big stop sign with the low hydraulic fluid warning message. Step out of the machine and saw a pool of hydraulic fluid on the ground. To locate the leak/busted hose, I fill up the machine with hydraulic fluid and very briefly turned on the machine. From the rear hatch, I saw hydraulic fluid spraying from the connection point of the hose or hoses that connect to the track wheel where the hub is located. I couldn't actually see the connection point but I am assuming that that is where the leak/busted location is since the hoses were intact and did not look damaged. I can not access the area from the rear hatch or from the cab. Looks like the only way to get to it is from the outside where the track wheel is. I'm thinking that I will have to jack up the machine, take off the track and remove the black plates in order to access that area. Does anyone have any experience with this? Will I have to take the hub off to get to the hose connection area? Please help! I am really hoping I can repair this myself and not have to haul it to the Bobcat dealer. Thanks.

 

[bobbie-g]

Wow! That sounds exciting! I have a T180 which I believe is pretty close to the T190. Just my opinion here from looking pretty closely at the drive motors. I think the only way to access the hoses on the back of the drive motor is to remove the track, remove the sprocket, and unbolt the drive motor from the outside. Then, the hoses going to the drive motor have to be disconnected from inside the chassis (under the cab). The drive motor should then be loose and can be pulled to the outside. That's just my opinion. Quite a job, I think, especially having to do it in the dirt instead of in a shop. How many hrs on the machine? I've found the closest dealers to me are more than willing to talk me through how to do things like that. Best I can offer. Keep us posted. ----RC

 

[Fishfiles]

Wow! That sounds exciting! I have a T180 which I believe is pretty close to the T190. Just my opinion here from looking pretty closely at the drive motors. I think the only way to access the hoses on the back of the drive motor is to remove the track, remove the sprocket, and unbolt the drive motor from the outside. Then, the hoses going to the drive motor have to be disconnected from inside the chassis (under the cab). The drive motor should then be loose and can be pulled to the outside. That's just my opinion. Quite a job, I think, especially having to do it in the dirt instead of in a shop. How many hrs on the machine? I've found the closest dealers to me are more than willing to talk me through how to do things like that. Best I can offer. Keep us posted. ----RC

You jack the machine up by putting some heavy blocks under the rear and pushing the bucket down to get the machine off the ground then put either a H D jack stand or blocks under the front so it don't bleed down , then loosen the track bleeder valve , be sure to unscrew the bottom bolt of the forward most plate on side the track as the yoke will hit that bolt inside the frame and not go back far enough to get a little extra slack to make the job easier , I ususally will put a 2x4 in between the tack and the sprocket and roll the spocket this will get all the slack out , and if you stop the 2x4 right on top the spocket you can use a bar and pry the track over the spocket and out the way without taking it totally off , if I have another machine handy I will take the track all the way off and out the way , there is a cover with 3 bolts that protects the fittings and hoses from the track , remove it and you have access to the hoses , you don't have to take the spocket off for a hose

 

[wvtrees]

You jack the machine up by putting some heavy blocks under the rear and pushing the bucket down to get the machine off the ground then put either a H D jack stand or blocks under the front so it don't bleed down , then loosen the track bleeder valve , be sure to unscrew the bottom bolt of the forward most plate on side the track as the yoke will hit that bolt inside the frame and not go back far enough to get a little extra slack to make the job easier , I ususally will put a 2x4 in between the tack and the sprocket and roll the spocket this will get all the slack out , and if you stop the 2x4 right on top the spocket you can use a bar and pry the track over the spocket and out the way without taking it totally off , if I have another machine handy I will take the track all the way off and out the way , there is a cover with 3 bolts that protects the fittings and hoses from the track , remove it and you have access to the hoses , you don't have to take the spocket off for a hose

Fishflies has got the procedure down. When this happened to me, my leak was under the cab. The main hyd hose that feeds the drive motor had rubbed against the hard lines. Had to pull the track and cover to access the hoses. Quite a job to feed the hoses thru the body of the machine and still have room to tighten. I repeat. Make sure the hose are seated square and tight before re-assembly. Had my machine ready run and had a hose not quite tight to hold back the pressure. Made me sick. Started all over. Hope this will keep you up and running. Fishflies comment on the other macine will help the backaches later if on is available. Excavator is real handy for positioning the track later for assembly.

 

[bobbie-g]

Fishflies has got the procedure down. When this happened to me, my leak was under the cab. The main hyd hose that feeds the drive motor had rubbed against the hard lines. Had to pull the track and cover to access the hoses. Quite a job to feed the hoses thru the body of the machine and still have room to tighten. I repeat. Make sure the hose are seated square and tight before re-assembly. Had my machine ready run and had a hose not quite tight to hold back the pressure. Made me sick. Started all over. Hope this will keep you up and running. Fishflies comment on the other macine will help the backaches later if on is available. Excavator is real handy for positioning the track later for assembly.

Hey, good info for me. I stand corrected on my guess. Fishfiles, do you mean put the 2x4 in the track and then run the tracks with the engine running to get the 2x4 to up on top of the sprocket? That would make sense to help compress the piston. ---RC

 

[CCM]

Fishflies has got the procedure down. When this happened to me, my leak was under the cab. The main hyd hose that feeds the drive motor had rubbed against the hard lines. Had to pull the track and cover to access the hoses. Quite a job to feed the hoses thru the body of the machine and still have room to tighten. I repeat. Make sure the hose are seated square and tight before re-assembly. Had my machine ready run and had a hose not quite tight to hold back the pressure. Made me sick. Started all over. Hope this will keep you up and running. Fishflies comment on the other macine will help the backaches later if on is available. Excavator is real handy for positioning the track later for assembly.

Thanks for all the responses. Sorry about my poor use of terminology but glad you guys know what I am referring to. The machine has about 800 hours on it. Luckily, I will be able to work on the machine on pavement. I may need to drag it back a little. Is it safe to drag it backwards a few feet? Should I have the machine on but not started? Is there a neutral? I have experience taking the track off. I hope that I won't have to take off the sprocket, but in the case that I do because the lack of room to work with, how easy of a task is it? Can you just take it off by hand or do you need a pulley? Or do I even want to go there? So that I kinda know what I am talking about when I go get the part, does anyone know what I should ask for or the part #? Are there any special tools that I will need for this job? Thank for all the response/help and hope to hear more from you all.

 

[wvtrees]

Thanks for all the responses. Sorry about my poor use of terminology but glad you guys know what I am referring to. The machine has about 800 hours on it. Luckily, I will be able to work on the machine on pavement. I may need to drag it back a little. Is it safe to drag it backwards a few feet? Should I have the machine on but not started? Is there a neutral? I have experience taking the track off. I hope that I won't have to take off the sprocket, but in the case that I do because the lack of room to work with, how easy of a task is it? Can you just take it off by hand or do you need a pulley? Or do I even want to go there? So that I kinda know what I am talking about when I go get the part, does anyone know what I should ask for or the part #? Are there any special tools that I will need for this job? Thank for all the response/help and hope to hear more from you all.

I had an easier time by taking the sprocket loose and the track came off with some work. Still need to get the machine jacked and blocked for space to slide the track out of your work space. Once you do have the cover off, take a picture of the hoses, (trace and record the location), before dis-assembly for later reference or have good memory. Really tight space to work and feed the hoses thru the machine body. All the hoses can be disconnected at the drive motor beacause you will have to work your way out of that spot later. Room to tighten is limited. reason for my earlier post re-do. If you have the money and time, replace any worn hoses the are not leaking now. Once the new hose is replaced a new weak place may appear. Will save the repeat syndrome. Be there, done that. Most of my leaks did not occur closer to 2000 hrs. @ 2770 hrs now.

 

[wvtrees]

Part #'s are imprinted on hose collar, if orignial hoses. Local hose shops are not much help in my area so I had to settle for Bobcat dealer. $90 - $25 each. I replaced 6 hoses total on my repair. 4 on the drive motor.

 

[Fishfiles]

Part #'s are imprinted on hose collar, if orignial hoses. Local hose shops are not much help in my area so I had to settle for Bobcat dealer. $90 - $25 each. I replaced 6 hoses total on my repair. 4 on the drive motor.

Bobby , I run the 2x4 for two reasons , first as you say to put slack in the track by making the adjuster go back in , sometimes the adjuster goes in easy , sometimes you need another machine to push it , depends on how much dirt is inside the frame and such -second reason is that with the 2x4 on top the sprocket I can usually get a bar into the holes in the track and pry the track over and off the spocket then leave the track the rest of the way still on , you only need enough room to work on the hoses ----------------you don't have to take off the sprocket to do a hose job , to change the travel motor you need to remove the sprocket , you have three holes threaded in the sprocket where bolts can be installed to push the sprocket off the hub if it is stuck so bad that hitting it with a mall doesn't get it off , take care hitting it as chucks of metal can fly off and hit you , especially on the older style sprockets that were forged , the newer ones are cast ------------------while you have the track off you can remove the sprocket and check the hub oil as there is a plug under the sprocket for that purpose

 

[bobbie-g]

Bobby , I run the 2x4 for two reasons , first as you say to put slack in the track by making the adjuster go back in , sometimes the adjuster goes in easy , sometimes you need another machine to push it , depends on how much dirt is inside the frame and such -second reason is that with the 2x4 on top the sprocket I can usually get a bar into the holes in the track and pry the track over and off the spocket then leave the track the rest of the way still on , you only need enough room to work on the hoses ----------------you don't have to take off the sprocket to do a hose job , to change the travel motor you need to remove the sprocket , you have three holes threaded in the sprocket where bolts can be installed to push the sprocket off the hub if it is stuck so bad that hitting it with a mall doesn't get it off , take care hitting it as chucks of metal can fly off and hit you , especially on the older style sprockets that were forged , the newer ones are cast ------------------while you have the track off you can remove the sprocket and check the hub oil as there is a plug under the sprocket for that purpose

Fishfiles, good info as always. You're a great resource for the forum. --- When I had my machine at the dealer recently, I asked them to check the hubs to see if I had the plugs in it so I could change the oil. The machine was clean, and they looked in behind the sprocket with a mirror and said these particular hubs don't have the plug to change the oil. Another Bobcat dealer had told me the T180 hubs could be either way (permanent oil, or changeable oil). Also, the dealer said sometimes the hubs can get really rusted on, and they have to heat them up with a torch in addition to running bolts through the three threaded holes in the sprocket. The only comments I've seen here on the forum say the sprocket usually comes right off. --- I bought a 3/8" socket, 3/8" drive, and I'll braze on a piece of tubing to make a tool to release the grease from the track tensioners. Melroe wants over a hundred bucks for the tool. I know it's not necessary, I just would like to be able to avoid the mess, and avoid a face full of grease. ---RC

 

[Fishfiles]

Fishfiles, good info as always. You're a great resource for the forum. --- When I had my machine at the dealer recently, I asked them to check the hubs to see if I had the plugs in it so I could change the oil. The machine was clean, and they looked in behind the sprocket with a mirror and said these particular hubs don't have the plug to change the oil. Another Bobcat dealer had told me the T180 hubs could be either way (permanent oil, or changeable oil). Also, the dealer said sometimes the hubs can get really rusted on, and they have to heat them up with a torch in addition to running bolts through the three threaded holes in the sprocket. The only comments I've seen here on the forum say the sprocket usually comes right off. --- I bought a 3/8" socket, 3/8" drive, and I'll braze on a piece of tubing to make a tool to release the grease from the track tensioners. Melroe wants over a hundred bucks for the tool. I know it's not necessary, I just would like to be able to avoid the mess, and avoid a face full of grease. ---RC

Thanks for the kind words bobby-g , I really like this forum , you are right not all housings have the plug , what a foolish place to have the plug , ----------------I don't mind taking an extra step if it ensures that I will not run into a stumbling block and cost me time ----------- sometimes you can just knock the sprockets off so easy and sometimes not so something else that comes to mind on the removing of sprockets is those threaded holes for the push off bolts , I find at the least you should take a pick and a can of cleaner or WD40 or such and clean out the threads before putting the GRADE 8 min. bolts in , also sometimes if the bolts are hard going in you need to run a bottoming tap in the threads or the bolts won't go thru and if you use an impact you will break off the bolts if not careful ------------

 

[CCM]

Thanks for the kind words bobby-g , I really like this forum , you are right not all housings have the plug , what a foolish place to have the plug , ----------------I don't mind taking an extra step if it ensures that I will not run into a stumbling block and cost me time ----------- sometimes you can just knock the sprockets off so easy and sometimes not so something else that comes to mind on the removing of sprockets is those threaded holes for the push off bolts , I find at the least you should take a pick and a can of cleaner or WD40 or such and clean out the threads before putting the GRADE 8 min. bolts in , also sometimes if the bolts are hard going in you need to run a bottoming tap in the threads or the bolts won't go thru and if you use an impact you will break off the bolts if not careful ------------

Got it fixed. Thanks everyone. Had to work real hard to get the replacement hose back on. Looks like the hose had rubbed against the frame and tore open. Anyone know why this happened or what positioning/usages of the machine causes this?

 

[Tazza]

Got it fixed. Thanks everyone. Had to work real hard to get the replacement hose back on. Looks like the hose had rubbed against the frame and tore open. Anyone know why this happened or what positioning/usages of the machine causes this?

Some times you can stop it rubbing if you give the fitting a twist or put a little strain on the hose to make it sit at a different angle. But as it gets pressure, it will twitch, this is where it rubs and fails over time. If you get some rubber, you can wrap the hose where it touches the frame and cable tie it on. It will help with abrasion.
Glad you got it all sorted out though.

 

[SkidRoe]

Some times you can stop it rubbing if you give the fitting a twist or put a little strain on the hose to make it sit at a different angle. But as it gets pressure, it will twitch, this is where it rubs and fails over time. If you get some rubber, you can wrap the hose where it touches the frame and cable tie it on. It will help with abrasion.
Glad you got it all sorted out though.

I am a big fan of abrasion sleeving, the product that I have been using is made by Aeroquip and is made from Cordura. I have been spec'ing it on all of our armoured combat vehicle suspension hoses at work for over ten years now, and it works great. As the hoses wear out on my machine I have been installing it as cheap insurance. I hate repeat repairs!!

 

[Fishfiles]

Some times you can stop it rubbing if you give the fitting a twist or put a little strain on the hose to make it sit at a different angle. But as it gets pressure, it will twitch, this is where it rubs and fails over time. If you get some rubber, you can wrap the hose where it touches the frame and cable tie it on. It will help with abrasion.
Glad you got it all sorted out though.

You know what really helps putting those travel motor hoses and any hose in a tight spot back on is a cheap pair of pliers I had picked up about 7 years ago , they look like long extended needle nose pliers except the tips are bent into a sort of loop , you are able to grab the crimped sleeve of the hose end and twist , pull , and malipuate the hose into the right position , and I find that your first turn of the fitting if you go backwards it seems to center the threads up for some strange reason ------------ I find it easier to hook up the outside connection first , but don't tighten all the way and then hook the hose/hoses inside the machine last , use a wrench to grap the hex of the crimp collar on the hose and twist the hose into the best position while tightening up the fitting with another wrench -------------another thing I do that helps is that I make my own hoses so I try and use the bend of the hose to my advantage when crimping it and not working against me ----when you get your hose made you could tell them to please put the natural bend of the hose like you want it -------not long ago I had a hose made and the guy made it out of like a 4wire hose that I like to never have gotten it to bend into place -----------another trick I use is if the hose has a 90 or 45 degree fitting then when possible and fiesible I use an adaptor swivel type fitting which is seperate of the hose , this cost a little more , but second time around if that hose blows it cost less and it makes it a lot easier to install and tweak the hose routing , and to carry less fittings and still have what you need as there can be so many jump sizes and then 45 or 90's on top of that ---------my biggest weapons against hard hoses is a set of cut hand size short and grinded edged wrenches to help start and run it up close , and a lot of crow foot wrenches , you can make your own pretty easy by cuttung a wrench and socket , a little welding and grinding ---------------I have learned that no matter how hard you try doing the same thing over and over it never seems to work out the exact same everytime , sometimes it's harder than others