Starter not engaging the flywheel until key is cycled several times case 1838

[ranchhopper]

I just bought a nice case 1838 with the V2203 kubota engine from a municipality they had replaced the starter not to long ago and it wont engage the flywheel until the key has been cycled two or three times. It hits the flywheel each time the key is cycled and usually it will engage after the second or third attempt I am going to remove the starter this week. Do these starters need to be shimmed or moved to position them correctly or is it an internal issue with the starter.

 

[cdmccul]

Do the mounting bolts run parallel to the starter might shaft? If yes, there's no shims.

Sounds like possibly weak battery, fouled solenoid contacts, dirty connections at either end of either battery cable, bad started brushes, or bad stated bearings... But I'd just guess it's a bad starter gear (often called a 'Bendix').

You could remove the starter and clean and lubricate the shaft the gear rides on. You can bench test the starter and see if kicks the gear out, before cleaning.

 

[ranchhopper]

I think its a cheap aftermarket starter records show it was replaced in 2019 I bought a replacement when it gets here I will change it out and disassemble the old one and see whats up.

 

[Firefighter]

my guess is you may need to wire in a relay, into the start circuit. the new starter may work a while till it starts happening again
low voltage on the start wire from the ignition switch will cause issues like that

 

[foton]

make sure that where the starter fits it is reasonably clean from paint ,dirt, grease what ever that might be adding resistance to making a good chassis ground.

 

[Topper1]

I have had the same issues on my 430 and both of my 450s.
The starter solenoid acts, pulling the spur forward, but fails to engage the starter motor contacts unless the spur gear was meshed into the flywheel gear. Rather then replacing the starters, my mechanic inserted a 1/16"-1/8" shim on the starter bolts between the starter and its mount. This allowed the solenoid to contact and turn/engage the flywheel. That was 5 or 6 years ago now. Still starts every time with no issues. We check the bolts every service anyway and have had NO issues.
The solenoid contacts should have been thicker to allow starter motor / gear rotation just prior to flywheel meshing. Poor design but good for sales i guess.

 

[cdmccul]

I have had the same issues on my 430 and both of my 450s.
The starter solenoid acts, pulling the spur forward, but fails to engage the starter motor contacts unless the spur gear was meshed into the flywheel gear. Rather then replacing the starters, my mechanic inserted a 1/16"-1/8" shim on the starter bolts between the starter and its mount. This allowed the solenoid to contact and turn/engage the flywheel. That was 5 or 6 years ago now. Still starts every time with no issues. We check the bolts every service anyway and have had NO issues.
The solenoid contacts should have been thicker to allow starter motor / gear rotation just prior to flywheel meshing. Poor design but good for sales i guess.

Interesting, and totally makes sense. Those contacts can wear a lot and are the cause of many starter failures in the automotive world, Chrysler cars with Bosch starters especially. I can see them wearing down so they work for a while, and once they start to arc they will wear much faster, making the issue worse over time.

 

[ranchhopper]

It was fixed I put in a new starter and fixed a bad wire starts like a new machine now.

 

[billyb]

It was fixed I put in a new starter and fixed a bad wire starts like a new machine now.

This is a common problem I know on that series Case. I have and still own a few of them. I found the issue is low power on the start wire from the ignition switch to the starter solenoid. I have installed a relay in that circuit so the ign switch power only closes the relay and you get your full battery power through the relay to the starter. No more problems !