New guy looking for machine

[robmints]

Hi. I know nothing about skid steers but I have used one at my house and I like the stability better than a tractor based machine. So I was looking at a few. One is going to be a lx565 and is supposed to be in great shape. Is there any thing I should know about this specific machine when I go look? Are they OK? Do I need high flow? The machine is going to be used to clean up and maintain a wooded lot that is on a hill. I was going to try and get some over the tire tracks for it because I don't think it will go very well without them. Thanks all.

 

[Tazza]

I don't know a whole lot about that specific machine but Hi Flow is only an asset when you use an attachment that requires more oil such as a brush mower. For general use standard flow is more than enough. I would check for wear in the pins and bushings, ensure the engine is stone cold when you go to see it. You want it started from cold to give you an idea on the state of the engine. If its worn it will be hard to start and require a lot of glowing. If the engine is warm its usually a sign that they are trying to cover up the fact its a little hard to start when cold.
Good luck in your quest for a skid steer, they are a great toy!

 

[skidsteer.ca]

I don't know a whole lot about that specific machine but Hi Flow is only an asset when you use an attachment that requires more oil such as a brush mower. For general use standard flow is more than enough. I would check for wear in the pins and bushings, ensure the engine is stone cold when you go to see it. You want it started from cold to give you an idea on the state of the engine. If its worn it will be hard to start and require a lot of glowing. If the engine is warm its usually a sign that they are trying to cover up the fact its a little hard to start when cold.
Good luck in your quest for a skid steer, they are a great toy!

Hi flow is a asset for snow blowing, stump ginding, brush mowing and asphalt planing. I'm adding it to my ls160 (which is the same loader as your looking at except I believe the Lx has a Yanmar engine) for stump grinding. Hi flow allow you to put most of the engines horsepower to the attachment. But the attachment must be sized for the hi flow pump too.
New Holland has not changed these loader much in years, they are as good of a design as anyones.
Any vertical lift boom has more pins to grease and wear so be sure to check them out.
I have some pics of mine with the cab and boom tilted forward (in the media section LS 160 folder) This takes about 45 minutes, but access is better then most for major repair.

Ken

 

[Tazza]

Hi flow is a asset for snow blowing, stump ginding, brush mowing and asphalt planing. I'm adding it to my ls160 (which is the same loader as your looking at except I believe the Lx has a Yanmar engine) for stump grinding. Hi flow allow you to put most of the engines horsepower to the attachment. But the attachment must be sized for the hi flow pump too.
New Holland has not changed these loader much in years, they are as good of a design as anyones.
Any vertical lift boom has more pins to grease and wear so be sure to check them out.
I have some pics of mine with the cab and boom tilted forward (in the media section LS 160 folder) This takes about 45 minutes, but access is better then most for major repair.

Ken

WOW, thats serious access there! I wish Bobcat were like that..... I'm very impressed with the access that will give, makes servicing much better.

 

[mllud]

WOW, thats serious access there! I wish Bobcat were like that..... I'm very impressed with the access that will give, makes servicing much better.

When I rebuilt my lx865 you can climb right inside until you get your engine in. and then its still good access.I used two trucks to tilt my cab. chain the boom to each hitch. one pulling back and the other holding . when the weight of the cab goes over center the weight of the cab shifts to the other truck.I didnt have a cab jack kit.$. I sat on some jack stands.Engine parts are dealer only.$$$$$ Mike

 

[mllud]

When I rebuilt my lx865 you can climb right inside until you get your engine in. and then its still good access.I used two trucks to tilt my cab. chain the boom to each hitch. one pulling back and the other holding . when the weight of the cab goes over center the weight of the cab shifts to the other truck.I didnt have a cab jack kit.$. I sat on some jack stands.Engine parts are dealer only.$$$$$ Mike

To get High flow do you just add a second gear pump and somehow combine plumbing? mike

 

[skidsteer.ca]

To get High flow do you just add a second gear pump and somehow combine plumbing? mike

Yes they drive a second pump with a poly chain belt off the crank. mounts onto the rh motor mount. Flow is combined by flipping a toggle switch.
I'll be posting pics and info of the project. Unfortunately NH saw fit to use all the plumbing just big enough for the std flow pump, so there are more lines to swap out then I anticipated. Further the kit was made for the john deere equivalent of the lx 565 model. Same frame but used a Yanmar ?? engine I was told. So we had to drill new holes in the motor mount they sent and turn a new spacer to mount the pulley to the crank.
Ken

 

[robmints]

Yes they drive a second pump with a poly chain belt off the crank. mounts onto the rh motor mount. Flow is combined by flipping a toggle switch.
I'll be posting pics and info of the project. Unfortunately NH saw fit to use all the plumbing just big enough for the std flow pump, so there are more lines to swap out then I anticipated. Further the kit was made for the john deere equivalent of the lx 565 model. Same frame but used a Yanmar ?? engine I was told. So we had to drill new holes in the motor mount they sent and turn a new spacer to mount the pulley to the crank.
Ken

Thanks very much guys. That easy open sardine can access looks real nice. This machine is not going to be used to make money so I have some details to work out with the Minister of Finance but the plan is to look tomorrow. I'll let you all know how it goes. One thing. I may like to use a brush cutter somewhere along the line and I have seen some that say "standard flow". Do they work? Is that what I would use? Is this high flow conversion something that the average person would do if they wanted to do high flow tasks in the future, or is it something skidsteer.ca did because he is a pro repair type person?

 

[skidsteer.ca]

Thanks very much guys. That easy open sardine can access looks real nice. This machine is not going to be used to make money so I have some details to work out with the Minister of Finance but the plan is to look tomorrow. I'll let you all know how it goes. One thing. I may like to use a brush cutter somewhere along the line and I have seen some that say "standard flow". Do they work? Is that what I would use? Is this high flow conversion something that the average person would do if they wanted to do high flow tasks in the future, or is it something skidsteer.ca did because he is a pro repair type person?

I have mowed alot of brush with standard flow hydraulics. 15 gpm at 2500 psi puts somewhere in the neighbourhood of 22 to 24 hp to the attachment. And with the non turbo ls 160 with 42 hp I not sure if I'd have enough engine left over to drive the wheels and mow brush anyway.
Actually brush takes less hp to mow then thick heavy grass which tends to slow the cutter down more. if your mowing just grass, a tractor is a better choice because you get full hp to the pto. If you mowing around rock, stumps and God know what, then a skidsteer mower with hyd drive will save you a lot of busted parts.
Discuss hi flow with your dealer, for home use you likely don't "need" it, but if the budget allows, it will allow you to blow snow or mow brush at a faster speed.
If you decide to go hi flow get a ls 170 it has 10 more hp with the turbo. I would likely advise against adding the option later, If you hire it done, it would be cheaper to buy a machine with it.
I picked the kit up off ebay for $400, (there are more there) but it was made for a JD 6675? which is the same frame as mine but a different engine. I had to machine a spacer for the crank pulley and drill some new holes in the new motor mount. Instructions say 8 hours , but I'll have at least twice that in this. But I got a good buy on this loader and it only has 500 hours on it, and I'll likely keep it awhile.
I'm thinking more of stump grinding, so the wheels won't be in use.
I would say the average mechanical minded person could install the kit I have, there are no fancy tools needed other then the lathe to make the spacer, $50 to $75 at any machine shop.
I have no idea what the correct kit would cost at the NH dealer but I'm guessing $1000 to $1500, add a days shop rate on that and buying the loader with it might look pretty good.
Ken

 

[robmints]

I have mowed alot of brush with standard flow hydraulics. 15 gpm at 2500 psi puts somewhere in the neighbourhood of 22 to 24 hp to the attachment. And with the non turbo ls 160 with 42 hp I not sure if I'd have enough engine left over to drive the wheels and mow brush anyway.
Actually brush takes less hp to mow then thick heavy grass which tends to slow the cutter down more. if your mowing just grass, a tractor is a better choice because you get full hp to the pto. If you mowing around rock, stumps and God know what, then a skidsteer mower with hyd drive will save you a lot of busted parts.
Discuss hi flow with your dealer, for home use you likely don't "need" it, but if the budget allows, it will allow you to blow snow or mow brush at a faster speed.
If you decide to go hi flow get a ls 170 it has 10 more hp with the turbo. I would likely advise against adding the option later, If you hire it done, it would be cheaper to buy a machine with it.
I picked the kit up off ebay for $400, (there are more there) but it was made for a JD 6675? which is the same frame as mine but a different engine. I had to machine a spacer for the crank pulley and drill some new holes in the new motor mount. Instructions say 8 hours , but I'll have at least twice that in this. But I got a good buy on this loader and it only has 500 hours on it, and I'll likely keep it awhile.
I'm thinking more of stump grinding, so the wheels won't be in use.
I would say the average mechanical minded person could install the kit I have, there are no fancy tools needed other then the lathe to make the spacer, $50 to $75 at any machine shop.
I have no idea what the correct kit would cost at the NH dealer but I'm guessing $1000 to $1500, add a days shop rate on that and buying the loader with it might look pretty good.
Ken

Thanks for the insight Ken. I went and looked today. Real nice machine we are down to finding an agreeable price. Started with very little smoke with no glow plug from fully cold (air temp about 40f, but it was snowing, maybe 36f). Smoke cleared quickly and it had very little whine and tracked straight, handled well, everything smooth and worked well, no heat or door, about 900 hrs, arms and pins looked great, very little wobble to the bucket. Freshly serviced, it is at a dealer. Trying to get them to come off some used tracks for a reasonable price (actually I want them to throw them in). We got confused by me looking at a used backhoe attachment but I think I'm better off just getting the machine and as I need attachments buy them as needed. Just thought the Bradco 509 looked like something handy but they were a little spendy for a used one ($5900). But I think I could use a root grapple first anyway. On the LX565 it's self, I would call it excellent condition, what would a reasonable offer be? They are asking almost 13k. Oh, the used tracks they have are Loegering, he called them low ground pressure, wants $1500 for them with spacers. Not looking to beat him up, just something fair to both of us. If it is not OK to discuss price here please just edit this part out. Thanks again, really appreciate the help.

 

[Tazza]

Thanks for the insight Ken. I went and looked today. Real nice machine we are down to finding an agreeable price. Started with very little smoke with no glow plug from fully cold (air temp about 40f, but it was snowing, maybe 36f). Smoke cleared quickly and it had very little whine and tracked straight, handled well, everything smooth and worked well, no heat or door, about 900 hrs, arms and pins looked great, very little wobble to the bucket. Freshly serviced, it is at a dealer. Trying to get them to come off some used tracks for a reasonable price (actually I want them to throw them in). We got confused by me looking at a used backhoe attachment but I think I'm better off just getting the machine and as I need attachments buy them as needed. Just thought the Bradco 509 looked like something handy but they were a little spendy for a used one ($5900). But I think I could use a root grapple first anyway. On the LX565 it's self, I would call it excellent condition, what would a reasonable offer be? They are asking almost 13k. Oh, the used tracks they have are Loegering, he called them low ground pressure, wants $1500 for them with spacers. Not looking to beat him up, just something fair to both of us. If it is not OK to discuss price here please just edit this part out. Thanks again, really appreciate the help.

Sounds good.
The engine starting is totally normal, a bit or white smoke at startup is normal. Lots of black or blue smoke that takes a few minutes to clear is not a good sign. Also glowing for 60 seconds is also a bad one.
No glow at that temperature is really good! sounds to be in top shape.

 

[skidsteer.ca]

Sounds good.
The engine starting is totally normal, a bit or white smoke at startup is normal. Lots of black or blue smoke that takes a few minutes to clear is not a good sign. Also glowing for 60 seconds is also a bad one.
No glow at that temperature is really good! sounds to be in top shape.

You can pick a hoe up used 3500 to 4500 almost any day, the bradco are not as common a the bobcat ones, but $500 would make any brand fit.
What year is this? mine is a 2000 LS 160, If your looking at a LX it is prior to this, I think for 13 he could throw in the tracks and spacers, if they are not to badly worn, spacers are @ $400, those tracks about $2500, new, figure 1/2 that +/- for good used.
I paid 12 k for mine a year ago in Dec with 430 hours, but it was a private sale and the dealers always want more. Plus it was 500 miles from home.
It sounds like a good tight machine with vary reasonable hours, is there a 30 day warranty, or a test period. I don't mind paying a bit more for something if they are standing behind it also.
Ken

 

[robmints]

You can pick a hoe up used 3500 to 4500 almost any day, the bradco are not as common a the bobcat ones, but $500 would make any brand fit.
What year is this? mine is a 2000 LS 160, If your looking at a LX it is prior to this, I think for 13 he could throw in the tracks and spacers, if they are not to badly worn, spacers are @ $400, those tracks about $2500, new, figure 1/2 that +/- for good used.
I paid 12 k for mine a year ago in Dec with 430 hours, but it was a private sale and the dealers always want more. Plus it was 500 miles from home.
It sounds like a good tight machine with vary reasonable hours, is there a 30 day warranty, or a test period. I don't mind paying a bit more for something if they are standing behind it also.
Ken

You know, I don't know what year it is. I was looking at the condition and the way it ran, handled and noises it made. Thanks for the advise. I made and offer, now it's up to them. The are all at some kind of trade show, so tomorrow is the soonest I would know if they will do it. I'll let you all know how it goes, and again I really appreciate the help.

 

[robmints]

You know, I don't know what year it is. I was looking at the condition and the way it ran, handled and noises it made. Thanks for the advise. I made and offer, now it's up to them. The are all at some kind of trade show, so tomorrow is the soonest I would know if they will do it. I'll let you all know how it goes, and again I really appreciate the help.

OK, the week got so busy I did not make much progress. But I would like to take a step back anyway. I am buying this for cleaning up some woods on a hill. From a stability and safety standpoint is a skid steer like I am looking at with over tire tracks more stable than a compact tractor? I am trying to be safe and minimize the pucker factor. Thanks all.

 

[Tazza]

OK, the week got so busy I did not make much progress. But I would like to take a step back anyway. I am buying this for cleaning up some woods on a hill. From a stability and safety standpoint is a skid steer like I am looking at with over tire tracks more stable than a compact tractor? I am trying to be safe and minimize the pucker factor. Thanks all.

I did giggle at the reference to "pucker factor" i totally know what you mean.
If you are working in a hill you may want to consider a track machine too. They have a low centre of gravety which will really help with your stability on a hill. You may want to add counterweights too. Just a little more to think about.

 

[robmints]

I did giggle at the reference to "pucker factor" i totally know what you mean.
If you are working in a hill you may want to consider a track machine too. They have a low centre of gravety which will really help with your stability on a hill. You may want to add counterweights too. Just a little more to think about.

Thanks Tazza. I borrowed a rented track machine with an ammbusher last summer and knocked a bunch of stuff down. For what I want to do a tracked machine would be superb but my concern was the purchase, repair, and maintenance costs. I'm not making money with this machine so I did not want one with large overhead. And one of the few opportunity's to make money that I would take advantage of would be snow removal. That brings up another question. I can get some lexan for a door but is there another way to get heat besides a heat kit? But the big question I have is: Will a tracks over wheels machine like I'm considering be more stable on hills than a compact tractor?

 

[Tazza]

Thanks Tazza. I borrowed a rented track machine with an ammbusher last summer and knocked a bunch of stuff down. For what I want to do a tracked machine would be superb but my concern was the purchase, repair, and maintenance costs. I'm not making money with this machine so I did not want one with large overhead. And one of the few opportunity's to make money that I would take advantage of would be snow removal. That brings up another question. I can get some lexan for a door but is there another way to get heat besides a heat kit? But the big question I have is: Will a tracks over wheels machine like I'm considering be more stable on hills than a compact tractor?

Ok, i'm really not an expert on tracks but over tyre tracks would indeed help, i don't know what the stability of them compared to *real* tracks is though but i know the tracks weigh a fair bit and they sit low. My first skid steer i didn't use to make money and it was brilliant, if you can get a machine at the rite price don't worry about it owing you anything, it will pay its self off in the work it will save you. When the time comes that you want to get rid of it you will find you will get close to what you paid for it, all it really cost you was fuel.
Just something to consider.
As for a front door, others have used lexan and mad a door that worked very well. You can buy heating kits that do a pretty good job. You can go the electric powered ones or you can get the ones that use engine coolant for heat. They really aren't that expensive as far as i was aware. You would be paying a lot if you had to buy it from the dealer though.

 

[skidsteer.ca]

Thanks Tazza. I borrowed a rented track machine with an ammbusher last summer and knocked a bunch of stuff down. For what I want to do a tracked machine would be superb but my concern was the purchase, repair, and maintenance costs. I'm not making money with this machine so I did not want one with large overhead. And one of the few opportunity's to make money that I would take advantage of would be snow removal. That brings up another question. I can get some lexan for a door but is there another way to get heat besides a heat kit? But the big question I have is: Will a tracks over wheels machine like I'm considering be more stable on hills than a compact tractor?

The New Holland are tougher to get a coolant heater into because the cab is kinda tight. I ended up buying the heater kit from the dealer for @$ 650-675 (memory)
The electric one don't put out enough heat for our climate, might be ok in the central states. My 853 heater is 12000 btu, which is about the least that will work here.
I picked up side windows and a door cheap $200 from a dealer in Wi, but it was made for a LS 150 and had to be reworked for the 160/170 machines. |I also made one of those doors fit my 853. The opening at the bottom is kinda narrow if you jump in and out alot, but it keeps you warm. Lexan would be easy for the side window the door would be a little tougher. Also soft top enclosures may be available to for |$300 or so.
The factory heater will cook you out
Imo you are far better off with a skid then a tractor on slopes, the weight is low in the frame provided you don't lift the load/boom up high. Also if you keep the heavy rear of the machine up hill and only lift moderate loads (near or less then the machines rated operating capacity) it is pretty stabile. If you keep the load low until you get to flatter ground you will only tip forward until the load bumps the ground, even if its quite steep. The hydro trans is the way to go in tough operating condition, tractor or skidsteer.
Track loader stability is better for forward tipping because of the long track frame, but in other directions a tire machine is close to tracks
Over the tire tracks increase your trackion and ability to make the machine go where you want, especially on slopes. also the extra weight will lower the center of gravity and make the machines footprint wider sideways
Ken

 

[robmints]

The New Holland are tougher to get a coolant heater into because the cab is kinda tight. I ended up buying the heater kit from the dealer for @$ 650-675 (memory)
The electric one don't put out enough heat for our climate, might be ok in the central states. My 853 heater is 12000 btu, which is about the least that will work here.
I picked up side windows and a door cheap $200 from a dealer in Wi, but it was made for a LS 150 and had to be reworked for the 160/170 machines. |I also made one of those doors fit my 853. The opening at the bottom is kinda narrow if you jump in and out alot, but it keeps you warm. Lexan would be easy for the side window the door would be a little tougher. Also soft top enclosures may be available to for |$300 or so.
The factory heater will cook you out
Imo you are far better off with a skid then a tractor on slopes, the weight is low in the frame provided you don't lift the load/boom up high. Also if you keep the heavy rear of the machine up hill and only lift moderate loads (near or less then the machines rated operating capacity) it is pretty stabile. If you keep the load low until you get to flatter ground you will only tip forward until the load bumps the ground, even if its quite steep. The hydro trans is the way to go in tough operating condition, tractor or skidsteer.
Track loader stability is better for forward tipping because of the long track frame, but in other directions a tire machine is close to tracks
Over the tire tracks increase your trackion and ability to make the machine go where you want, especially on slopes. also the extra weight will lower the center of gravity and make the machines footprint wider sideways
Ken

OK guys, I really appreciate all the help it has been invaluable to me because I did not know where to start. Now I have just one more pre-purchase question. We are at $13600 for machine, tracks, and spacers and are at an impasse, from what i have seen on the net it looks to be high. But I know nothing about these machines and how much condition matters or what a truly fair value would be. All I can find for true sale prices are auction results which tell you nothing about condition, even so nothing I found was over $9000 without spacers or tracks. Can someone please knock me off this fence?