Myths

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Bandit1047

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To Skidsteer.ca, I wonder if there is any interest to a myths and misinformation Thread. Where a myth could be posted and discussed. I am sure there are hundreds of myths that people believe are true, when in fact the opposite is true. One myth that is a source of irritation for me is diesel engine idling. All the diesel engine manufacturers DO NOT recommend idling due to premature engine wear. However if you go to any deisel engine idling blog, you get the most obsurd reasons for Idling a diesel. Idling is one of the main reasons for your engine oil turning black in a very short time. Joe
 
Thats a good thought also.
Many of us have been around diesels all our lives and have a definite opinion formed about what is required and what is not. However many machine owners on this board (and prospective owners) are new to diesels and have heard many varied things.
There are many reasons people leave engines idle, I too am not a fan of most of them. Unless I feel it won't start again, ( for cold temps, or some other not normal problem) I shut em down. I even prefer to do most of my warm up period operating under reduced load and rpm. I worst is to see a diesel idling cold for so long the sludge is dripping from the exhaust.
As for the too cold to start, there are many good options, all of which will save needless hours of wear.
The myths forum is not my decision to make, but I think it a good idea. I'm sure Owensge will be by soon and let us know
Ken
 
Thats a good thought also.
Many of us have been around diesels all our lives and have a definite opinion formed about what is required and what is not. However many machine owners on this board (and prospective owners) are new to diesels and have heard many varied things.
There are many reasons people leave engines idle, I too am not a fan of most of them. Unless I feel it won't start again, ( for cold temps, or some other not normal problem) I shut em down. I even prefer to do most of my warm up period operating under reduced load and rpm. I worst is to see a diesel idling cold for so long the sludge is dripping from the exhaust.
As for the too cold to start, there are many good options, all of which will save needless hours of wear.
The myths forum is not my decision to make, but I think it a good idea. I'm sure Owensge will be by soon and let us know
Ken
If we get a few more nods on this, I'll put something up...
 
If we get a few more nods on this, I'll put something up...
I agree, sounds good.
I have heard the same thing, idling glazes the bores up causing lower compression. I have also heard you NEED a load of at least 30% or the head will carbon up. Just like what you said Ken, the sludge from un-burnt fuel.
The biggest issue i see, is just how do we define fact from fiction on something like this? as you said, everyone has their own ideas of whats good and whats bad.
 
I agree, sounds good.
I have heard the same thing, idling glazes the bores up causing lower compression. I have also heard you NEED a load of at least 30% or the head will carbon up. Just like what you said Ken, the sludge from un-burnt fuel.
The biggest issue i see, is just how do we define fact from fiction on something like this? as you said, everyone has their own ideas of whats good and whats bad.
As far as seperating fact from fiction, If you can post an official fact sheat from some company like Cummins Engine or some other qualified source it would add credence to your post. The best part of this is the amount of knowledge that would be gained by all and the fun we would have trying to prove or disprove a myth. Joe
 
As far as seperating fact from fiction, If you can post an official fact sheat from some company like Cummins Engine or some other qualified source it would add credence to your post. The best part of this is the amount of knowledge that would be gained by all and the fun we would have trying to prove or disprove a myth. Joe
Okay I put up a Myths Forum... Enjoy!
 
Okay I put up a Myths Forum... Enjoy!
One thing I've always wondered, why can't they build a 4 cylinder diesel that get's the equivalent of half a million miles in operating hours?. I know of a few long haul truckers that say half a million miles is normal!.
 
One thing I've always wondered, why can't they build a 4 cylinder diesel that get's the equivalent of half a million miles in operating hours?. I know of a few long haul truckers that say half a million miles is normal!.
Most 4 cylinder diesel engines would last the equivilant 500,000. road miles if they operated under the same conditions. Over the road engines run close to the same RPM most of the time, they also operate in fairly clean conditions. These two factors alone give them the right conditions to run a long life cycle. A skid steer that is operating in a gravel pit, or loading aggregate all day long is exposed to a great deal of very abrasive dust that is small enough to pass through the filter media. This machine is also experiencing high RPM when digging or loading and is most likely run by a young kid who drives it like he's mad at it. This machine is also not likely to get the same quality of service that an over the road truck gets, and it may be serviced in the yard with little regard for dust and dirt. It is a fact that equipment purchased from owner operators brings better prices at auction than from sources unknown. This is because owner operators normally take better care of their equipment. My wife just washed the windows in my backhoe and Armeralled the dash, while I was changing oil and filters. The Mustang is getting the same treatment next. I plan on working them to my grave and don't expect to ever rebuild or replace an engine. Joe
 
Most 4 cylinder diesel engines would last the equivilant 500,000. road miles if they operated under the same conditions. Over the road engines run close to the same RPM most of the time, they also operate in fairly clean conditions. These two factors alone give them the right conditions to run a long life cycle. A skid steer that is operating in a gravel pit, or loading aggregate all day long is exposed to a great deal of very abrasive dust that is small enough to pass through the filter media. This machine is also experiencing high RPM when digging or loading and is most likely run by a young kid who drives it like he's mad at it. This machine is also not likely to get the same quality of service that an over the road truck gets, and it may be serviced in the yard with little regard for dust and dirt. It is a fact that equipment purchased from owner operators brings better prices at auction than from sources unknown. This is because owner operators normally take better care of their equipment. My wife just washed the windows in my backhoe and Armeralled the dash, while I was changing oil and filters. The Mustang is getting the same treatment next. I plan on working them to my grave and don't expect to ever rebuild or replace an engine. Joe
I have to agree there, most stationary engines run at one speed, usually close to their max rated speed of 3,000 RPM. In a diesel truck you would spend 90% of the time at 1-2,000 RPM. Fewer rotations, fewer piston strokes etc. So it sort of makes sense that they would last longer.
Another point is that most truck/car owners actually service their vehicles regularly. There are operators that hardly ever service their machines! i know one guy that only ever serviced his gera when there was a problem!!! Some contractors simply don't care, but when they own their own machine they take good care of them.
 
I have to agree there, most stationary engines run at one speed, usually close to their max rated speed of 3,000 RPM. In a diesel truck you would spend 90% of the time at 1-2,000 RPM. Fewer rotations, fewer piston strokes etc. So it sort of makes sense that they would last longer.
Another point is that most truck/car owners actually service their vehicles regularly. There are operators that hardly ever service their machines! i know one guy that only ever serviced his gera when there was a problem!!! Some contractors simply don't care, but when they own their own machine they take good care of them.
I think this topic is myth-understood.
 
Most 4 cylinder diesel engines would last the equivilant 500,000. road miles if they operated under the same conditions. Over the road engines run close to the same RPM most of the time, they also operate in fairly clean conditions. These two factors alone give them the right conditions to run a long life cycle. A skid steer that is operating in a gravel pit, or loading aggregate all day long is exposed to a great deal of very abrasive dust that is small enough to pass through the filter media. This machine is also experiencing high RPM when digging or loading and is most likely run by a young kid who drives it like he's mad at it. This machine is also not likely to get the same quality of service that an over the road truck gets, and it may be serviced in the yard with little regard for dust and dirt. It is a fact that equipment purchased from owner operators brings better prices at auction than from sources unknown. This is because owner operators normally take better care of their equipment. My wife just washed the windows in my backhoe and Armeralled the dash, while I was changing oil and filters. The Mustang is getting the same treatment next. I plan on working them to my grave and don't expect to ever rebuild or replace an engine. Joe
A lot of people who rent equipment have no respect for it. Several years ago, one of our rental bobcats suffered catastrophic engine damage while on a job. It was hauled to the dealer. Turned out that the machine, while it was on rental, started warning that the air filter was restricted. According to the code history, this occurred several times during the rental. The customer never once called the service number, 24 hrs a day, 7 days a week. The codes also showed that after several forced shutdowns the machine appeared to go back to normal operating conditions, which was a little strange. The dealer then discovered the customer had removed the filter. The debris that got pulled into the engine consequently destroyed it. The customer was charged for an engine. They denied any wrongdoing. The code history proved them to be guilty as charged. I just recovered a bobcat that another customer got stuck. On arriving at the scene, they informed me that it also wouldn't start, which, according to them, was why it got stuck. It took me about an hour the maneuver my truck(nicknamed the Green Monster)into a position where I could pull the machine, my transfer case was worked hard(I need to invest in a couple of snatch blocks) The machine was listing at 50 degrees, one side buried in a mud hole up to the cab sill. They had run the machine for several hours at this point. I opened the engine door as far as I could, disconnected the fuel line, pulled the gas cap and blew down the line. No bubbles to be heard. All the fuel was on one side of the tank. I had them add 10 gallons and it ran fine. Using a 12,000 pound winch, attached to my anchored(to a large tree) Dodge, I slowly winched it out. I then discovered that they had snagged the steel lines that run down the boom arm, bending them and pulling them out of their mounts. This caused one line to rub every time the arms were lifted or dropped, and wore it through. They also damaged a cylinder on the 4-1 bucket and ripped the hoses to the QD's. He had the gall to ask for a free day because he couldn't use it sunday(technically a gimme day, we are closed on Sundays and don't charge the customers extra, they just have an hour usage limit) I told him in no uncertain terms that not only was he not getting another day, he would be getting a bill for the recovery and the damages. He countered with "I paid for the insurance" I pointed out the insurance covers normal wear and tear, not negligent usage, like running into stuff, getting it stuck, ripping parts off and not watching what you are doing. End of subject. Your wife washed the windows and Armorall the backhoe? A tear just ran down my cheek......does she have a sister?
 
A lot of people who rent equipment have no respect for it. Several years ago, one of our rental bobcats suffered catastrophic engine damage while on a job. It was hauled to the dealer. Turned out that the machine, while it was on rental, started warning that the air filter was restricted. According to the code history, this occurred several times during the rental. The customer never once called the service number, 24 hrs a day, 7 days a week. The codes also showed that after several forced shutdowns the machine appeared to go back to normal operating conditions, which was a little strange. The dealer then discovered the customer had removed the filter. The debris that got pulled into the engine consequently destroyed it. The customer was charged for an engine. They denied any wrongdoing. The code history proved them to be guilty as charged. I just recovered a bobcat that another customer got stuck. On arriving at the scene, they informed me that it also wouldn't start, which, according to them, was why it got stuck. It took me about an hour the maneuver my truck(nicknamed the Green Monster)into a position where I could pull the machine, my transfer case was worked hard(I need to invest in a couple of snatch blocks) The machine was listing at 50 degrees, one side buried in a mud hole up to the cab sill. They had run the machine for several hours at this point. I opened the engine door as far as I could, disconnected the fuel line, pulled the gas cap and blew down the line. No bubbles to be heard. All the fuel was on one side of the tank. I had them add 10 gallons and it ran fine. Using a 12,000 pound winch, attached to my anchored(to a large tree) Dodge, I slowly winched it out. I then discovered that they had snagged the steel lines that run down the boom arm, bending them and pulling them out of their mounts. This caused one line to rub every time the arms were lifted or dropped, and wore it through. They also damaged a cylinder on the 4-1 bucket and ripped the hoses to the QD's. He had the gall to ask for a free day because he couldn't use it sunday(technically a gimme day, we are closed on Sundays and don't charge the customers extra, they just have an hour usage limit) I told him in no uncertain terms that not only was he not getting another day, he would be getting a bill for the recovery and the damages. He countered with "I paid for the insurance" I pointed out the insurance covers normal wear and tear, not negligent usage, like running into stuff, getting it stuck, ripping parts off and not watching what you are doing. End of subject. Your wife washed the windows and Armorall the backhoe? A tear just ran down my cheek......does she have a sister?
Wow, just wow....
Sadly you can't fix stupid can you?
People really don't care do they? I sure youe you got paid for those two and any others you got over the years.
 
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