lx665 won't start

[jerry]

It has something to do with a circuit the service switch bypasses. It should runfor 30 seconds before low oil pressureor low charge pressure signaltothe eic will cut the engine.
Here is a link to the manual for a 160, I though you had one based on a previous post.
http://www.mediafire.com/?ov9zqt7xwtl
Ken

Yes , I got the manuals from you Ken and it is something that is sending incorrect signal for charge oil pressure to the board but only during start up. After it is running I switch it to run, buckle the belt and everything is normal. I took the board out and cleaned it, there was 1/16 inch of dirt on it, disconnected the charge pressure sender, and the seat belt switch and seat switch are fine so I think it has to be in the wire harness between the engine and the eic. I'll run it this way for a while to see if anything changes. Did your manuals have electrical diagrams? Mine came up with only 3 blank pages labeled electrical diagram.

 

[skidsteer.ca]

Yes , I got the manuals from you Ken and it is something that is sending incorrect signal for charge oil pressure to the board but only during start up. After it is running I switch it to run, buckle the belt and everything is normal. I took the board out and cleaned it, there was 1/16 inch of dirt on it, disconnected the charge pressure sender, and the seat belt switch and seat switch are fine so I think it has to be in the wire harness between the engine and the eic. I'll run it this way for a while to see if anything changes. Did your manuals have electrical diagrams? Mine came up with only 3 blank pages labeled electrical diagram.

Lol, so much for my memory.
No my wire diagram is missing too for 3 pages at the beginning of the electrical section.
Have you carefully read through the section on page 537 and the next few pages.
Have you tried a new relay, item 1 on page 545? Diagram for it is shown on 542 with service switch it run position. Pg 544 shows a diagram of that switch in the service position and that item #1 relay would be bypassed.
That looks like a logical wear part to me. You could try swapping it with the preheat relay.
Ken

 

[jerry]

Lol, so much for my memory.
No my wire diagram is missing too for 3 pages at the beginning of the electrical section.
Have you carefully read through the section on page 537 and the next few pages.
Have you tried a new relay, item 1 on page 545? Diagram for it is shown on 542 with service switch it run position. Pg 544 shows a diagram of that switch in the service position and that item #1 relay would be bypassed.
That looks like a logical wear part to me. You could try swapping it with the preheat relay.
Ken

That sounds like a good plan, I'll do that tomorrow then if nothing I'll trace the wire from the hyd sensor all the way back to the service switch to see if it is picking up enough ground somewhere to cancel the start process. Thanks. Jerry

 

[skidsteer.ca]

That sounds like a good plan, I'll do that tomorrow then if nothing I'll trace the wire from the hyd sensor all the way back to the service switch to see if it is picking up enough ground somewhere to cancel the start process. Thanks. Jerry

Jerry
Even if you have no oil pressure or charge pressure, the engine should still crank and run for 30 seconds at a time in run mode. The service mode just bypasses the seat and seat belt switch + relay and shuts off power to the spool lock solenoids on the hyd valve.
Pg 517 and 518 covers diagnostics for the sensor circuits and the EIC will test the wires for opens, not sure on grounds, but likely, I'd have to read it carefully again.
Ken

 

[Chip S]

Jerry
Even if you have no oil pressure or charge pressure, the engine should still crank and run for 30 seconds at a time in run mode. The service mode just bypasses the seat and seat belt switch + relay and shuts off power to the spool lock solenoids on the hyd valve.
Pg 517 and 518 covers diagnostics for the sensor circuits and the EIC will test the wires for opens, not sure on grounds, but likely, I'd have to read it carefully again.
Ken

My 565 has two under seat switches plus the seat belt switch. Do each of these have a specific function, or do all three have to be closed in order for the boom and starting circuit to be energized? In other words, does the seat control the boom and the belt control the start or vice versa? The reason I ask is that yesterday while sitting in the machine I started it up in service, buckled up the belt switched to run and the boom still remained locked for a brief time. This might be a hint as to which switch and/or circuit is bad.

 

[Chip S]

My 565 has two under seat switches plus the seat belt switch. Do each of these have a specific function, or do all three have to be closed in order for the boom and starting circuit to be energized? In other words, does the seat control the boom and the belt control the start or vice versa? The reason I ask is that yesterday while sitting in the machine I started it up in service, buckled up the belt switched to run and the boom still remained locked for a brief time. This might be a hint as to which switch and/or circuit is bad.

FOUND THE PROBLEM! Found the wiring diagrams too. Turns out there was a bad lug in the the service/start switch wiring, as well as an intermittant starter problem. The start/run circuit gets voltage at the engine fuse panel as a lt grn/red wire, goes through the seat switch harness and terminates at the start/run switch as a two wire green and tan lug that attaches at the outside center of the switch. It was this lug that was bad. With the service/run switch in the run position, the voltage continues and the circuit terminates with a tan/white wire at pin 4 of the P2 board of the EIC. It should be 12v to the board. With switch in the service position, the voltage terminates at the switch at the center lug. Once I got all the voltages, and still no joy, I connected the voltmeter to the red/white wire at the starter and turned the key. Had voltage, but no crank. Tapped the starter with a hammer, and she turned over like a champ.

 

[Chip S]

FOUND THE PROBLEM! Found the wiring diagrams too. Turns out there was a bad lug in the the service/start switch wiring, as well as an intermittant starter problem. The start/run circuit gets voltage at the engine fuse panel as a lt grn/red wire, goes through the seat switch harness and terminates at the start/run switch as a two wire green and tan lug that attaches at the outside center of the switch. It was this lug that was bad. With the service/run switch in the run position, the voltage continues and the circuit terminates with a tan/white wire at pin 4 of the P2 board of the EIC. It should be 12v to the board. With switch in the service position, the voltage terminates at the switch at the center lug. Once I got all the voltages, and still no joy, I connected the voltmeter to the red/white wire at the starter and turned the key. Had voltage, but no crank. Tapped the starter with a hammer, and she turned over like a champ.

I also cleaned all the connections to the start interlock relay. Some were pretty dirty, but all in all that wasn't the heart of the problem. Might be yours. White/Orange wire carries 12v to the relay when the seat belt switch is closed. If you need more info just ask.

 

[skidsteer.ca]

FOUND THE PROBLEM! Found the wiring diagrams too. Turns out there was a bad lug in the the service/start switch wiring, as well as an intermittant starter problem. The start/run circuit gets voltage at the engine fuse panel as a lt grn/red wire, goes through the seat switch harness and terminates at the start/run switch as a two wire green and tan lug that attaches at the outside center of the switch. It was this lug that was bad. With the service/run switch in the run position, the voltage continues and the circuit terminates with a tan/white wire at pin 4 of the P2 board of the EIC. It should be 12v to the board. With switch in the service position, the voltage terminates at the switch at the center lug. Once I got all the voltages, and still no joy, I connected the voltmeter to the red/white wire at the starter and turned the key. Had voltage, but no crank. Tapped the starter with a hammer, and she turned over like a champ.

Chip
Do you have the electrical diagrams on pages 55-15 through 55-18 in the electrical book?
Those are the ones Jerry and I are missing.
I believes the two seat switches are parallel circuits ans so long as one is closed the (say your on a bad side hill) the circuit will still transfer power.
I did find yesterday I can go from service mode to run mode with the engine on too.
My mistake was I was buckling the seat belt b4 flipping the switch over to run. Good to know incase of future problems. I often use service mode to start up whn I'm using my log splitter outside the cab.
Ken

 

[jerry]

FOUND THE PROBLEM! Found the wiring diagrams too. Turns out there was a bad lug in the the service/start switch wiring, as well as an intermittant starter problem. The start/run circuit gets voltage at the engine fuse panel as a lt grn/red wire, goes through the seat switch harness and terminates at the start/run switch as a two wire green and tan lug that attaches at the outside center of the switch. It was this lug that was bad. With the service/run switch in the run position, the voltage continues and the circuit terminates with a tan/white wire at pin 4 of the P2 board of the EIC. It should be 12v to the board. With switch in the service position, the voltage terminates at the switch at the center lug. Once I got all the voltages, and still no joy, I connected the voltmeter to the red/white wire at the starter and turned the key. Had voltage, but no crank. Tapped the starter with a hammer, and she turned over like a champ.

As soon as I can I'll try that also Skip. I did take the service/run switch apart and looks fine continuity checked out according to the diagram of it but I will do it again to make sure voltage is where it should be. I still have to try switching the relays also. no time for anything and now snow coming. Thanks

 

[Chip S]

As soon as I can I'll try that also Skip. I did take the service/run switch apart and looks fine continuity checked out according to the diagram of it but I will do it again to make sure voltage is where it should be. I still have to try switching the relays also. no time for anything and now snow coming. Thanks

I have photocopies of Section 3 figures 103 to 113. Don't know what the page numbers are. Jerry, the interlock relay is the little square relay above the starter and cold start relays. Orange/White is the 12v. Found my starter problem. Cold solder joint on the solenoid winding. Resoldered it, cleaned up the disk and she starts every time now.

 

[jerry]

I have photocopies of Section 3 figures 103 to 113. Don't know what the page numbers are. Jerry, the interlock relay is the little square relay above the starter and cold start relays. Orange/White is the 12v. Found my starter problem. Cold solder joint on the solenoid winding. Resoldered it, cleaned up the disk and she starts every time now.

Chip, I have diagrams of the electrical box in the engine room and of the seat switch and the service switch. What I found odd is that there is no general electrical wiring diagram like there was in my bobcat book, just blank pages. I will call the dealer and see if he will send me those or if they are top secret. Will check more tomorrow on the interlock relay, I used it today we have at least a foot of wet snow and it did work good although the engine temp never went over 120 so I may have to change thermostat after a while.

 

[jerry]

Chip, I have diagrams of the electrical box in the engine room and of the seat switch and the service switch. What I found odd is that there is no general electrical wiring diagram like there was in my bobcat book, just blank pages. I will call the dealer and see if he will send me those or if they are top secret. Will check more tomorrow on the interlock relay, I used it today we have at least a foot of wet snow and it did work good although the engine temp never went over 120 so I may have to change thermostat after a while.

Chip, I have eliminated the starter solenoid as the problem and if you could e-mail me the diagram you have I think it would be a great help as the one in the book does not tell me what I want to know about the starter interlock relay. Can you send it to the e-mail in my profile? I would greatly appreciate it if you can. If it was a older car I would say it is the starter solenoid because if I try the key a few times it will click each time till it finally engages but there is no power at the starter until then. I have switched the start and preheat relays so the only relay left is the interlock I think. Thanks

 

[Chip S]

Chip, I have eliminated the starter solenoid as the problem and if you could e-mail me the diagram you have I think it would be a great help as the one in the book does not tell me what I want to know about the starter interlock relay. Can you send it to the e-mail in my profile? I would greatly appreciate it if you can. If it was a older car I would say it is the starter solenoid because if I try the key a few times it will click each time till it finally engages but there is no power at the starter until then. I have switched the start and preheat relays so the only relay left is the interlock I think. Thanks

Let me start with a text description of how this circuit works. If this won't do, let me know and I'll try to follow up with photocopies of my photocopies, but the print is tiny and I have a feeling they'll not be too legible. Plus I only have dial up connection and they'll take forever to download. With the key on and the run service switch in the run position, seat belt bucked or jumped, seat switch closed and the key in the on position, the orange/white wire on the interlock relay should be energized with juice from the seat belt/seat switch circuit. With the key in the start position, the white/lt green wire on the interlock relay should be energized with juice coming from the post on the service/run switch. If these conditions are met, juice should flow across the interlock relay to the start relay via the white/Drk Blue wire, then to the starter solenoid via the red/white wire, to the EIC pin 10 via the white wire (not via the interlock relay) and the starter should kick. Power should also flow from the light blu/Orange wire to the fuel solenoid on the injection pump. An interlock relay is a part # 86521256 and is $44.33 on the Messick's site.

 

[jerry]

Let me start with a text description of how this circuit works. If this won't do, let me know and I'll try to follow up with photocopies of my photocopies, but the print is tiny and I have a feeling they'll not be too legible. Plus I only have dial up connection and they'll take forever to download. With the key on and the run service switch in the run position, seat belt bucked or jumped, seat switch closed and the key in the on position, the orange/white wire on the interlock relay should be energized with juice from the seat belt/seat switch circuit. With the key in the start position, the white/lt green wire on the interlock relay should be energized with juice coming from the post on the service/run switch. If these conditions are met, juice should flow across the interlock relay to the start relay via the white/Drk Blue wire, then to the starter solenoid via the red/white wire, to the EIC pin 10 via the white wire (not via the interlock relay) and the starter should kick. Power should also flow from the light blu/Orange wire to the fuel solenoid on the injection pump. An interlock relay is a part # 86521256 and is $44.33 on the Messick's site.

Thanks chip that should do it. I know I have juice in the orange/w wire at the interlock so know I will round up some help and go further with it. thanks again. jerry

 

[jerry]

Chip, I have diagrams of the electrical box in the engine room and of the seat switch and the service switch. What I found odd is that there is no general electrical wiring diagram like there was in my bobcat book, just blank pages. I will call the dealer and see if he will send me those or if they are top secret. Will check more tomorrow on the interlock relay, I used it today we have at least a foot of wet snow and it did work good although the engine temp never went over 120 so I may have to change thermostat after a while.

I found the problem, it was the starter interlock relay. Replaced it and it has worked every time so far. Thanks for all the ideas everybody.

 

[jerry]

I found the problem, it was the starter interlock relay. Replaced it and it has worked every time so far. Thanks for all the ideas everybody.

Chip do your diagrams show more than just the fuse panel layout? I have a feeling they are more detailed than mine and would like to get a copy. Send me a e-mail at stovein at live dot com if you would be willing to send me a copy by mail. I would send you the cost first of course. thanks. Jerry