lx665 won't start

[jerry]

I have had this machine now about 1 1/2 months, It has been in heated building past few days. Took it out this morning moved a scoop or two of firewood, loaded the bucket as a guy was coming to get wood and left it idle for 10 minutes then shut it off. Came back 15 minutes later decided to put it back in heated shed and would not start. everything was normal up to the starting point then nothing. Tried the seat belt in and out a few time then switched it to service and started it. Once it was running I switched it to run and it was fine. Put it in shed with the bucket of wood. The guy came it would not start in run again. If started in service it would show error 2 and die when switched to run.
I made a jumper for the seat belt switch, no change. When you sit in the seat the eic lights up and then goes to flashing brake and belt lights. When you connect the belt that light stops. When you try to start it the two oil lights flash and nothing happens.
I did find I could start it in service without the belt on and then switch to run then engage the belt and operate the loader. Then the display is normal.
Is this related to going from warm building out into the cold? All fuses are fine. Maybe frost or condensation? It was just a few degrees above zero with wind and snow. Any ideas will be really appreciated. Jerry

 

[jerry]

I see by previous posts that a problem similar to this was a bad service/run switch. Is this just a simple switch? With my luck it will have at least ten wires on it. The error code is for fuel solenoid circuit but the solenoid has to be good or else it would not run at all ?

 

[Chip S]

I see by previous posts that a problem similar to this was a bad service/run switch. Is this just a simple switch? With my luck it will have at least ten wires on it. The error code is for fuel solenoid circuit but the solenoid has to be good or else it would not run at all ?

My LX565 is doing the same thing. I checked the under seat switches and replaced one that was sticky, but still hasn't solved the problem. The run/service switch is a DPDT switch, and is has a bunch of wires on it, but all plug in with spade connectors. Just make a diagram and color code which wire goes where. I think a new one is around $60. If you're careful, you may be able to disassemble the switch and clean the contacts. As far as the error code 2 message, that's normal when the switch is in the service position. Nothing to worry about.

 

[jerry]

My LX565 is doing the same thing. I checked the under seat switches and replaced one that was sticky, but still hasn't solved the problem. The run/service switch is a DPDT switch, and is has a bunch of wires on it, but all plug in with spade connectors. Just make a diagram and color code which wire goes where. I think a new one is around $60. If you're careful, you may be able to disassemble the switch and clean the contacts. As far as the error code 2 message, that's normal when the switch is in the service position. Nothing to worry about.

Thanks Chip, I did find two persons in the archives that had to replace the service/run switch with similar problems so I will take that out tomorrow. I may try the diagnostic mode on it also as outlined in the service manual. The only thing I have done to it recently was change the hyd oil filter and the air filter. There is no hesitation or odd movement in the hydraulic so I don't thing that has anything to do with this. I have started it a few times now with that plan, use the service switch to start then turn to run, then buckle the seat belt to release the pedals. Not right and a pain in the neck but it works. Jerry

 

[jerry]

Thanks Chip, I did find two persons in the archives that had to replace the service/run switch with similar problems so I will take that out tomorrow. I may try the diagnostic mode on it also as outlined in the service manual. The only thing I have done to it recently was change the hyd oil filter and the air filter. There is no hesitation or odd movement in the hydraulic so I don't thing that has anything to do with this. I have started it a few times now with that plan, use the service switch to start then turn to run, then buckle the seat belt to release the pedals. Not right and a pain in the neck but it works. Jerry

Chip, I took apart the run switch today and cleaned it up, checked the grounds and hydraulic sensor and still nothing. This evening talked to New Holland mechanic and he says it is the under seat switch. Fairly common problem I guess, he said to replace the seat wiring harness. I see it is $40 at Messicks. He said it still will light up the eic even though it is bad. It is a phased or timed sort of thing where it will light the eic but not energize the fuel soleniod circuit. Says I can't jump it either so I will take that out tomorrow and see if there is a broken wire in it.

 

[Chip S]

Chip, I took apart the run switch today and cleaned it up, checked the grounds and hydraulic sensor and still nothing. This evening talked to New Holland mechanic and he says it is the under seat switch. Fairly common problem I guess, he said to replace the seat wiring harness. I see it is $40 at Messicks. He said it still will light up the eic even though it is bad. It is a phased or timed sort of thing where it will light the eic but not energize the fuel soleniod circuit. Says I can't jump it either so I will take that out tomorrow and see if there is a broken wire in it.

I'd be interested in what you find. I never did trace the harness itself, just checked connections and the operation of the2 underseat and seatbelt safety switches.

 

[jerry]

I'd be interested in what you find. I never did trace the harness itself, just checked connections and the operation of the2 underseat and seatbelt safety switches.

Mine only has one under seat switch Skip, I took the harness out, it was replaced in 08 by its tag and it checked out fine for continuity as far as I could see. Switch works as it should. New harness coming on Tuesday. I do have a flashing hydraulic charge light comes on when I turn it to start so I think I will look at that now. Do you know if the hyd sensor can be jumped across or does it take pressure to break the circuit?

 

[Chip S]

Mine only has one under seat switch Skip, I took the harness out, it was replaced in 08 by its tag and it checked out fine for continuity as far as I could see. Switch works as it should. New harness coming on Tuesday. I do have a flashing hydraulic charge light comes on when I turn it to start so I think I will look at that now. Do you know if the hyd sensor can be jumped across or does it take pressure to break the circuit?

Got no idea on that hydro sensor. Get that starting problem whupped with the new harness?

 

[jerry]

Got no idea on that hydro sensor. Get that starting problem whupped with the new harness?

NO, it was supposed to be shipped Monday but no sign of it yet. I did find out that if you try to use the diagnostic mode of the eic you can accidentally lock the machine and have to call the dealer for the master code to unlock it. The electrical book for this machine has a lot on the eic but very little on actual circuits and no complete wiring diagrams.

 

[skidsteer.ca]

NO, it was supposed to be shipped Monday but no sign of it yet. I did find out that if you try to use the diagnostic mode of the eic you can accidentally lock the machine and have to call the dealer for the master code to unlock it. The electrical book for this machine has a lot on the eic but very little on actual circuits and no complete wiring diagrams.

Jerry
Pretty sure the hyd sensor is NO, Just put a jumper onit to rule that out. Don't believe it will affect starting any though. I though the service mode switch just bypasses the seat and seat belt switch and cuts power to the foot pedal locks. If I start mine in service mode it won't unlock the pedals after that even flipping itback to operate mode and doing up the seat belt.
Ken

 

[jerry]

Jerry
Pretty sure the hyd sensor is NO, Just put a jumper onit to rule that out. Don't believe it will affect starting any though. I though the service mode switch just bypasses the seat and seat belt switch and cuts power to the foot pedal locks. If I start mine in service mode it won't unlock the pedals after that even flipping itback to operate mode and doing up the seat belt.
Ken

Ken, I tried the jumper with no results, when I turn it to start there is click and the charge pressure light flashes. That is the red one just above the engine oil light and on the right of the display. I can still start it and use it by sitting in the seat,all the eic lights up and then goes to just park brake and seat belt flashing, then I switch to service start it and then buckle the seat belt. Then the display is normal and I can bring up all of the modes and the hydraulics are unlocked. If I do the belt before I start it there is a 02 error and it will die when switched to run. I may have serious gremlins in there or it may be something really simple. Jerry

 

[jerry]

Ken, I tried the jumper with no results, when I turn it to start there is click and the charge pressure light flashes. That is the red one just above the engine oil light and on the right of the display. I can still start it and use it by sitting in the seat,all the eic lights up and then goes to just park brake and seat belt flashing, then I switch to service start it and then buckle the seat belt. Then the display is normal and I can bring up all of the modes and the hydraulics are unlocked. If I do the belt before I start it there is a 02 error and it will die when switched to run. I may have serious gremlins in there or it may be something really simple. Jerry

Installed the new seat wire harness, nothing different, disconnected the charge pressure sender at the suggestion of the dealer, nothing different. He is sending up a female seat belt end I'll try that next.

 

[Chip S]

Installed the new seat wire harness, nothing different, disconnected the charge pressure sender at the suggestion of the dealer, nothing different. He is sending up a female seat belt end I'll try that next.

Mine pretty much does everything yours does with the service switch in service mode, including the shut down, so you might be chasing problems that don't exist there. If you can lay hands on the dealer service manual,about 5 notebook binder's worth, there is an extensive electrical section including all the wiring and circuitry diagrams you could ever need to see, including ecu pin voltages. My dealer let me copy a section when I was working on a starter problem that turned out to be a cracked connector. Of course I put them somewhere for safe keeping and now can't remember where I put 'em.

 

[jerry]

Mine pretty much does everything yours does with the service switch in service mode, including the shut down, so you might be chasing problems that don't exist there. If you can lay hands on the dealer service manual,about 5 notebook binder's worth, there is an extensive electrical section including all the wiring and circuitry diagrams you could ever need to see, including ecu pin voltages. My dealer let me copy a section when I was working on a starter problem that turned out to be a cracked connector. Of course I put them somewhere for safe keeping and now can't remember where I put 'em.

Did you solve your problem and if so how? I thought yours was on going also. Next I think I may take the display down and clean it, when I cleaned the service switch and fuse box area there was a lot of dust and dirt in there. If there is a circuit board behind the display and it is dirty that could cause problems as I have had that happen with a car instrument panel. Too much if this is top secret, the electrical book I have has 3 pages labeled electrical diagram and they are all blank. If you find your copies I would appreciate it if I could see them.

 

[Chip S]

Did you solve your problem and if so how? I thought yours was on going also. Next I think I may take the display down and clean it, when I cleaned the service switch and fuse box area there was a lot of dust and dirt in there. If there is a circuit board behind the display and it is dirty that could cause problems as I have had that happen with a car instrument panel. Too much if this is top secret, the electrical book I have has 3 pages labeled electrical diagram and they are all blank. If you find your copies I would appreciate it if I could see them.

I'm still having the intermittent start problem like yours. What I do is buckle up, start it in service mode, let it run for a few minutes, then put the r/s switch in run. She'll then shut down automatically. Then I'll turn the key to start a few times and usually after 5 or six tries she'll start up and work normally. Sometimes it helps to ease the machine back and forth a couple times while running in service mode. Must be vibration or something that causes a connection to hit. What I meant was that even prior to the this current problem, when starting in service mode the error 2 message would show, and the light sequence was the same as you describe. I don't think they are related to the start problem. There must be a bad ground, switch or cracked connector or broken wire somewhere in the safety switch wiring harness. If you do remove the eic, be sure to disconnect the battery. If you accidentally ground the wrong pin to the chassis, you could find yourself in a word of hurt. Ive looked all over for the wiring diagrams. If I find them I'll be sure and let you know.

 

[jerry]

I'm still having the intermittent start problem like yours. What I do is buckle up, start it in service mode, let it run for a few minutes, then put the r/s switch in run. She'll then shut down automatically. Then I'll turn the key to start a few times and usually after 5 or six tries she'll start up and work normally. Sometimes it helps to ease the machine back and forth a couple times while running in service mode. Must be vibration or something that causes a connection to hit. What I meant was that even prior to the this current problem, when starting in service mode the error 2 message would show, and the light sequence was the same as you describe. I don't think they are related to the start problem. There must be a bad ground, switch or cracked connector or broken wire somewhere in the safety switch wiring harness. If you do remove the eic, be sure to disconnect the battery. If you accidentally ground the wrong pin to the chassis, you could find yourself in a word of hurt. Ive looked all over for the wiring diagrams. If I find them I'll be sure and let you know.

Thanks Chip, I always unhook the neg cable for that kind of thing and you are not even supposed to weld on it without disconnecting the battery. Interesting thing the guy at the Bobcat dealer said they see more electronic problems caused by welding on the machine and lightning than other things. Next time you start yours try it without the belt buckled in service and then switch to run while it is running and buckle the belt.

 

[jerry]

Thanks Chip, I always unhook the neg cable for that kind of thing and you are not even supposed to weld on it without disconnecting the battery. Interesting thing the guy at the Bobcat dealer said they see more electronic problems caused by welding on the machine and lightning than other things. Next time you start yours try it without the belt buckled in service and then switch to run while it is running and buckle the belt.

Ken, still trying to solve this problem so I dropped the belly pan and have cleaned out 5 gallons of dirt and muck plus found a large ground strap coming from the engine by the starter that is not attached to anything. In the book it shows it as going to the main frame so I'll put to there somehow. Up front there is shown a ground strap from the rops to the main frame in the area below the front cab corner. Do you remember seeing anything like that on yours? I can't on this one but maybe it is that much different from your 160. thanks Jerry

 

[jerry]

Ken, still trying to solve this problem so I dropped the belly pan and have cleaned out 5 gallons of dirt and muck plus found a large ground strap coming from the engine by the starter that is not attached to anything. In the book it shows it as going to the main frame so I'll put to there somehow. Up front there is shown a ground strap from the rops to the main frame in the area below the front cab corner. Do you remember seeing anything like that on yours? I can't on this one but maybe it is that much different from your 160. thanks Jerry

found and fixed all the grounds ,no difference.

 

[skidsteer.ca]

found and fixed all the grounds ,no difference.

It has something to do with a circuit the service switch bypasses. It should runfor 30 seconds before low oil pressureor low charge pressure signaltothe eic will cut the engine.
Here is a link to the manual for a 160, I though you had one based on a previous post.
http://www.mediafire.com/?ov9zqt7xwtl
Ken