Ls185b hydraulic problem !

[treyfox77]

I'm having problems with this skid steer I just purchased . I'm a decent mechanic with tools but I know nothing on skid steers . Anyways , the unit will move momentarily and the stop , no boom or bucket movements. Also I checked fluid and it's full but has a lot of air in the system it seems . When I say it moves , it only move maybe 4-6 feet at a time . I'm not sure on year but I'm thinking 05 to 06 . It has two foot pedals for the boom I guess. Any ideas on where to begin and check stuff ? All seat and safety belt stuff is working correctly. Thanks trey Also noticed today it may be leaking fluid between the two pumps off the motor ??? Could this be a place it's getting air in system ???

 

[treyfox77]

Also wanted to mention that it seems to be gurgling when you shut machine down , not sure this is normal .

 

[Mike10]

The first thing to determine is if the safety circuit is causing the problem or something else. The LS.B models still had a service/run switch in front of the cab fuse panel. The cab fuse panel is above your right shoulder. Loosen the thumb screws and pivot the cover out to gain access to the switch. The toggle switch is in front of the fuse block. Flip the switch in the opposite direction and start the engine. The foot pedals will remain locked, but loader will move. If the loader continues to drive, then you know the problem is in the safety circuit, seat switch, seat belt, seat harness.

 

[walio123]

The first thing to determine is if the safety circuit is causing the problem or something else. The LS.B models still had a service/run switch in front of the cab fuse panel. The cab fuse panel is above your right shoulder. Loosen the thumb screws and pivot the cover out to gain access to the switch. The toggle switch is in front of the fuse block. Flip the switch in the opposite direction and start the engine. The foot pedals will remain locked, but loader will move. If the loader continues to drive, then you know the problem is in the safety circuit, seat switch, seat belt, seat harness.

If it really leak between the two pumps, it is not good news. Take a careful look, so it can suck up air from there. Also check for leaks the supply hoses / those coming from the hydraulic fluid reservoir./ These pumps use the charging pressure that comes from the gear pump (it may be a problem). Gear pump is also used for arm and bucket movement and aux hydraulic. Those 2 pedals on floor is for arm and bucket. It is not normal to have noise in the tank. So there is a lot of air. This happens when the machine is left almost empty of oil and then a large amount is poured out. All the hydraulic cylinders must be fully extended and retracted to ensure that they are free of air. Do the test that Mike10 advised you. Try to run the bucket and the arm from one end to the other 3-4 times. If the oil is still bubbling and bubbling ... it sucking air.

 

[walio123]

If it really leak between the two pumps, it is not good news. Take a careful look, so it can suck up air from there. Also check for leaks the supply hoses / those coming from the hydraulic fluid reservoir./ These pumps use the charging pressure that comes from the gear pump (it may be a problem). Gear pump is also used for arm and bucket movement and aux hydraulic. Those 2 pedals on floor is for arm and bucket. It is not normal to have noise in the tank. So there is a lot of air. This happens when the machine is left almost empty of oil and then a large amount is poured out. All the hydraulic cylinders must be fully extended and retracted to ensure that they are free of air. Do the test that Mike10 advised you. Try to run the bucket and the arm from one end to the other 3-4 times. If the oil is still bubbling and bubbling ... it sucking air.

the hydraulic system collects 15 gallons of oil / 57 liters / but hydraulic tank is only 5 gallon / 19 liters /. So there is a good chance that the machine is not bleached.

 

[treyfox77]

The first thing to determine is if the safety circuit is causing the problem or something else. The LS.B models still had a service/run switch in front of the cab fuse panel. The cab fuse panel is above your right shoulder. Loosen the thumb screws and pivot the cover out to gain access to the switch. The toggle switch is in front of the fuse block. Flip the switch in the opposite direction and start the engine. The foot pedals will remain locked, but loader will move. If the loader continues to drive, then you know the problem is in the safety circuit, seat switch, seat belt, seat harness.

Yes I've checked that switch ........ doesn't matter if the switch is in work mode or maintenance it does the same thing , from what I can tell all the safety stuff is workin .

 

[walio123]

Yes I've checked that switch ........ doesn't matter if the switch is in work mode or maintenance it does the same thing , from what I can tell all the safety stuff is workin .

If bucket and the arm not working, check that there is a current to the solenoid locks of the hydraulic valve. You have to connect a wires to the solenoid connector, sit in the seat, run the seat bar and then you should have 12 volts on wires.

 

[walio123]

If bucket and the arm not working, check that there is a current to the solenoid locks of the hydraulic valve. You have to connect a wires to the solenoid connector, sit in the seat, run the seat bar and then you should have 12 volts on wires.

From hydraulic valve should have three pairs of wires. Two of them have female connectors, one with male. The middle wire / female connector/ is for the arm, the end wire with a female connector is for the bucket, the end wire with male end connector is for aux hydraulics.Both female connectors may have 12 volts to run the bucket and the arm.

 

[treyfox77]

From hydraulic valve should have three pairs of wires. Two of them have female connectors, one with male. The middle wire / female connector/ is for the arm, the end wire with a female connector is for the bucket, the end wire with male end connector is for aux hydraulics.Both female connectors may have 12 volts to run the bucket and the arm.

I think I'm having a pump problem because it's leaking between the pumps .......... I will check those connections and report back but I know I shouldn't have this leak , I'm guessing that's where all the air is coming into the system ?

 

[walio123]

I think I'm having a pump problem because it's leaking between the pumps .......... I will check those connections and report back but I know I shouldn't have this leak , I'm guessing that's where all the air is coming into the system ?

Where is the leak? Between 2 bodys of tandem hydrostatic pump or between tandem pump an gear pump?

 

[treyfox77]

Where is the leak? Between 2 bodys of tandem hydrostatic pump or between tandem pump an gear pump?

If you come off the back of the motor there appears to be a pump and then another pump housing bolted directly to the first housing , it's in between those two housings .

 

[walio123]

If you come off the back of the motor there appears to be a pump and then another pump housing bolted directly to the first housing , it's in between those two housings .

this will not be an easy repair. If you are not familiar with the workings of these pumps I recommend you first read how they work, what you should look at. Here's a simple explanation of the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ncCv5PjzGM. You'll need to pull the pump out of your machine, put notes on all hoses, which is where it is. You have to separate the two pumps, there is usually a O ring.Your is probably damaged. Check for shaft bearings play. Also be careful to not swap pistons in rotating group. Check for wear cam plates. there is a second video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEpQFZ5BG8c.If you're not sure you'll handle it I recommend that you take pumps to a good repair shop. I do not believe taking expensive for such a repair if everything else in the pumps is okay.

 

[Mike10]

this will not be an easy repair. If you are not familiar with the workings of these pumps I recommend you first read how they work, what you should look at. Here's a simple explanation of the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ncCv5PjzGM. You'll need to pull the pump out of your machine, put notes on all hoses, which is where it is. You have to separate the two pumps, there is usually a O ring.Your is probably damaged. Check for shaft bearings play. Also be careful to not swap pistons in rotating group. Check for wear cam plates. there is a second video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEpQFZ5BG8c.If you're not sure you'll handle it I recommend that you take pumps to a good repair shop. I do not believe taking expensive for such a repair if everything else in the pumps is okay.

The hydraulic system, boom and bucket, is separate from the hydrostat system. The center section where the leak is located is where the hydrostat charge pump is. The only common hydraulic component is the oil reservoir and the reservoir outlet hose. At the outlet hose one line goes to the charge pump and a second line goes to the hydraulic pump. If the pedals do not lock when everything stops, then you do not have an electrical problem. So what else is common between the hydrostat and hydraulic system? The drive coupler between the hydrostat pump and the engine. When that coupler fails, neither the charge pump or hydraulic pumps turn. You should be getting the charge pressure light and alarm when the system stops, You will get a noise when the coupler fails. Unusual that the machine will work initially. The coupler is a lovejoy type coupler, so it may be possible the plastic drive hub is not completely destroyed.

 

[treyfox77]

The hydraulic system, boom and bucket, is separate from the hydrostat system. The center section where the leak is located is where the hydrostat charge pump is. The only common hydraulic component is the oil reservoir and the reservoir outlet hose. At the outlet hose one line goes to the charge pump and a second line goes to the hydraulic pump. If the pedals do not lock when everything stops, then you do not have an electrical problem. So what else is common between the hydrostat and hydraulic system? The drive coupler between the hydrostat pump and the engine. When that coupler fails, neither the charge pump or hydraulic pumps turn. You should be getting the charge pressure light and alarm when the system stops, You will get a noise when the coupler fails. Unusual that the machine will work initially. The coupler is a lovejoy type coupler, so it may be possible the plastic drive hub is not completely destroyed.

The pedals on floor are definitely locked all the time . I have yet to get them to release at all and move boom or bucket . I just did some reading that said that if the main hose from plastic reservoir is not tight or has a hole in it / or damage to plastic reservoir itself that it will suck air from the intake side . Is this correct and if so I may need to start there and check that . I will say I loosened the hydraulic lines loose from bucket at front and I am getting a lot of air in the system from somewhere and I mean a lot . To the point you can see the bubbles in the fluid .

 

[Mike10]

The pedals on floor are definitely locked all the time . I have yet to get them to release at all and move boom or bucket . I just did some reading that said that if the main hose from plastic reservoir is not tight or has a hole in it / or damage to plastic reservoir itself that it will suck air from the intake side . Is this correct and if so I may need to start there and check that . I will say I loosened the hydraulic lines loose from bucket at front and I am getting a lot of air in the system from somewhere and I mean a lot . To the point you can see the bubbles in the fluid .

If the pedals are locked all the time, then start there. Air will not cause the pedals to lock. With the service run switch in the run position, I think the toggle switch is forward. With the key in the OFF position, watch the instrument panel as you sit in the seat. The panel should light up and go through a self test when you sit in the seat. If the instrument panel does not light up, raise yourself off the seat and flip the service/run switch in the opposite direction and then sit back down. If the instrument panel does not light up, then you are not getting power back to the instrument panel through the seat switch.......................If the panel lights up with the key off, then the seat switch circuit is working. After the instrument panel finishes the self test, there will be two lights lit on the panel, park and seat belt. Fasten the seat belt and the seat belt light should go out. If the light does not go out, then the circuit from the seat belt to the instrument panel is not working. All these initial tests are done with the key in the off position. With the seat belt light off then turn the key to the on position and the pedals should be free.............Even with the pedals locked you can still tell if the hydraulic pump is working by engaging the aux hyd by pivoting the top of the right handle up or down. If the hydraulic pump is working then the engine will pull down when the oil deadheads at the couplers...........Unless something is blocking the intake, even sucking air would not keep the loader from moving without having an oil mess from the loose or damaged hose.

 

[treyfox77]

If the pedals are locked all the time, then start there. Air will not cause the pedals to lock. With the service run switch in the run position, I think the toggle switch is forward. With the key in the OFF position, watch the instrument panel as you sit in the seat. The panel should light up and go through a self test when you sit in the seat. If the instrument panel does not light up, raise yourself off the seat and flip the service/run switch in the opposite direction and then sit back down. If the instrument panel does not light up, then you are not getting power back to the instrument panel through the seat switch.......................If the panel lights up with the key off, then the seat switch circuit is working. After the instrument panel finishes the self test, there will be two lights lit on the panel, park and seat belt. Fasten the seat belt and the seat belt light should go out. If the light does not go out, then the circuit from the seat belt to the instrument panel is not working. All these initial tests are done with the key in the off position. With the seat belt light off then turn the key to the on position and the pedals should be free.............Even with the pedals locked you can still tell if the hydraulic pump is working by engaging the aux hyd by pivoting the top of the right handle up or down. If the hydraulic pump is working then the engine will pull down when the oil deadheads at the couplers...........Unless something is blocking the intake, even sucking air would not keep the loader from moving without having an oil mess from the loose or damaged hose.

Mike I'm gonna do this test and report back in about an hour and let you know what I find . Thank you for y'all for your input !!!

 

[treyfox77]

If the pedals are locked all the time, then start there. Air will not cause the pedals to lock. With the service run switch in the run position, I think the toggle switch is forward. With the key in the OFF position, watch the instrument panel as you sit in the seat. The panel should light up and go through a self test when you sit in the seat. If the instrument panel does not light up, raise yourself off the seat and flip the service/run switch in the opposite direction and then sit back down. If the instrument panel does not light up, then you are not getting power back to the instrument panel through the seat switch.......................If the panel lights up with the key off, then the seat switch circuit is working. After the instrument panel finishes the self test, there will be two lights lit on the panel, park and seat belt. Fasten the seat belt and the seat belt light should go out. If the light does not go out, then the circuit from the seat belt to the instrument panel is not working. All these initial tests are done with the key in the off position. With the seat belt light off then turn the key to the on position and the pedals should be free.............Even with the pedals locked you can still tell if the hydraulic pump is working by engaging the aux hyd by pivoting the top of the right handle up or down. If the hydraulic pump is working then the engine will pull down when the oil deadheads at the couplers...........Unless something is blocking the intake, even sucking air would not keep the loader from moving without having an oil mess from the loose or damaged hose.

Ok mike , I've made some headway tonight on the machine ! So I followed you recommendations and found that all the safety stuff is working properly. The two female connectors down at your feet that control the boom and arm are not getting 12 volts to them . I have a probe and supplied 12 volts and both valves are operating properly ( arm and boom will move if I give the power ) . So I have a electrical problem obviously. I checked all the fuses in the cab and outside in the engine compartment and all were good . Where do I start looking from here ? Also I followed exactly what you told me and the machine started moving towards and backwards with ease but the pumps are very noisy as it moves and turns . I actually rode it for a good 15-20 mins without it stopping. I feel like I am making headway !!! Thanks again for all the help !

 

[Mike10]

Ok mike , I've made some headway tonight on the machine ! So I followed you recommendations and found that all the safety stuff is working properly. The two female connectors down at your feet that control the boom and arm are not getting 12 volts to them . I have a probe and supplied 12 volts and both valves are operating properly ( arm and boom will move if I give the power ) . So I have a electrical problem obviously. I checked all the fuses in the cab and outside in the engine compartment and all were good . Where do I start looking from here ? Also I followed exactly what you told me and the machine started moving towards and backwards with ease but the pumps are very noisy as it moves and turns . I actually rode it for a good 15-20 mins without it stopping. I feel like I am making headway !!! Thanks again for all the help !

Do you have a cab door? Even if there is no cab door, is there a switch on the left front cab pillar where a door would contact it if there was a door? On cabs with this switch the switch interrupts the current to the valve if the door is open.

 

[walio123]

Ok mike , I've made some headway tonight on the machine ! So I followed you recommendations and found that all the safety stuff is working properly. The two female connectors down at your feet that control the boom and arm are not getting 12 volts to them . I have a probe and supplied 12 volts and both valves are operating properly ( arm and boom will move if I give the power ) . So I have a electrical problem obviously. I checked all the fuses in the cab and outside in the engine compartment and all were good . Where do I start looking from here ? Also I followed exactly what you told me and the machine started moving towards and backwards with ease but the pumps are very noisy as it moves and turns . I actually rode it for a good 15-20 mins without it stopping. I feel like I am making headway !!! Thanks again for all the help !

There must be a relay controlling these solenoids. It may not work ..