Loose bucket on bobtach when back drag pressure

[crosent344]

Found a couple posts related to this, but not specifically to bucket slop. I have an S570 with 180 hrs on it. Hobby use only. When I put pressure on the bucket in the back drag movement, the bottom of the bucket wants to pull away from the bobtach plate. In addition, I can see the bobtach springs move, which causes the pins to pull back. Driving me a bit crazy, as I cannot determine why. Bucket is a new bobcat brand that came with the machine. I've inspected the taper pins, bobtach plate, and bucket, and don't see any wear or any kind of bending. This makes a significant banging noise when it happens, so I am hesitant to use the machine until I can get it resolved. I can get the same behavior on a Titan Machinery toothed bucket that was bought new also. When the bucket is just tilting back and forth, it's tight and does not move at all. I see references to shimming or welding a bead along the bucket slots, but what is it I am trying to correct? What is the ideal taper pin to bucket slot alignment or fit? I posted to a facebook Bobcat group a while back, and lots of watchers but only one person had the same issue. He added washers to shim the spring, and said it helped some but didn't resolve it. Videos located here: https://youtu.be/HwRwJUOz_5M https://youtu.be/0ArinUu2K0M https://youtu.be/PxJrLqFxoMc https://youtu.be/HMDcT2XxW5E

 

[foton]

at 180 hrs you should have no noticeable wear on these parts. Are both pins fully engaging the backplate and you think the taper of the pins is not enough leaving slop in the hoops, I had a new Titan pallet forks I picked up and I had to adjust the pockets as my pins would not engage both holes at the same time. It was easy to do , although you would think that a universal piece should fit everything ,but it did not. Other pieces of equipment I have needed no fitting at all,

 

[reaperman]

I noticed the exact same thing on our new T770 we have at work. I remember first seeing it after 100 machine hrs, I dont know if it was like that since new or not. The machine has approx 400 hrs now. Nothing has broke as a result, and a machine that big puts a lot of stress on the pins when back dragging. I figure before the warranty is off I'll have it looked at or at least make a phone call.

 

[crosent344]

I noticed the exact same thing on our new T770 we have at work. I remember first seeing it after 100 machine hrs, I dont know if it was like that since new or not. The machine has approx 400 hrs now. Nothing has broke as a result, and a machine that big puts a lot of stress on the pins when back dragging. I figure before the warranty is off I'll have it looked at or at least make a phone call.

Well it's good to know others have noticed this also and it's not just my imagination. It may have done it since new, not sure. This is my first machine, and as I use it more, I am becoming more comfortable with it, and aware of different noises and behaviors. Found another good thread from a few years back, including some pictures and a lot of detail on what they think the issue is. Still no real specifics on how to shim it or fix it, but at least it's more info. I do quite a bit if back dragging, but this bucket movement makes that concerning. I would imagine that if I continue to use it as is, it will damage the taper pins at some point. I may have to try welding a bead across the bucket slot. Is the tapered part of the pin supposed to rest on the edge of the bucket connection edge, or should the full cylinder be pressing against that part? Here is that other thread: https://www.plowsite.com/threads/slop-in-quick-attach-plate.110456/

 

[reaperman]

Well it's good to know others have noticed this also and it's not just my imagination. It may have done it since new, not sure. This is my first machine, and as I use it more, I am becoming more comfortable with it, and aware of different noises and behaviors. Found another good thread from a few years back, including some pictures and a lot of detail on what they think the issue is. Still no real specifics on how to shim it or fix it, but at least it's more info. I do quite a bit if back dragging, but this bucket movement makes that concerning. I would imagine that if I continue to use it as is, it will damage the taper pins at some point. I may have to try welding a bead across the bucket slot. Is the tapered part of the pin supposed to rest on the edge of the bucket connection edge, or should the full cylinder be pressing against that part? Here is that other thread: https://www.plowsite.com/threads/slop-in-quick-attach-plate.110456/

Update. I stopped by the dealer the other day being I was in the area and had the machine on. They looked at it and tried to tighten the spring tension without luck. Then the mechanic said he heard of others having the same issue. I left the machine there for them to fix. A few hours later they called me back saying they contacted Bobcat about the issue. Bobcat told the dealer they think the issue is machines with a "severe duty bucket". The dealer put a heavy duty bucket on to test the theory and said it solved the issue. To me it doesn't make alot of sense, I said the same amount of pressure is being put on any bucket but I'll find out. Their offer is to trade out the severe duty bucket with a heavy duty one. I'll pick up the machine on Monday. Just so you know, I'd contact the dealer since your machine should be under warranty. The warranty on a new bobcat is 2 yrs or 2000 hrs

 

[Wayne440]

Update. I stopped by the dealer the other day being I was in the area and had the machine on. They looked at it and tried to tighten the spring tension without luck. Then the mechanic said he heard of others having the same issue. I left the machine there for them to fix. A few hours later they called me back saying they contacted Bobcat about the issue. Bobcat told the dealer they think the issue is machines with a "severe duty bucket". The dealer put a heavy duty bucket on to test the theory and said it solved the issue. To me it doesn't make alot of sense, I said the same amount of pressure is being put on any bucket but I'll find out. Their offer is to trade out the severe duty bucket with a heavy duty one. I'll pick up the machine on Monday. Just so you know, I'd contact the dealer since your machine should be under warranty. The warranty on a new bobcat is 2 yrs or 2000 hrs

IF that was my machine, trading the bucket for a lighter duty one would not be a viable solution. If "bucket A" is loose, and "bucket B" is not- the trouble is that bucket A is defective - and I would want the one I paid for, not a lighter one. Of course, if they will fill the lighter bucket up with some $$$ then maybe.

 

[crosent344]

Update. I stopped by the dealer the other day being I was in the area and had the machine on. They looked at it and tried to tighten the spring tension without luck. Then the mechanic said he heard of others having the same issue. I left the machine there for them to fix. A few hours later they called me back saying they contacted Bobcat about the issue. Bobcat told the dealer they think the issue is machines with a "severe duty bucket". The dealer put a heavy duty bucket on to test the theory and said it solved the issue. To me it doesn't make alot of sense, I said the same amount of pressure is being put on any bucket but I'll find out. Their offer is to trade out the severe duty bucket with a heavy duty one. I'll pick up the machine on Monday. Just so you know, I'd contact the dealer since your machine should be under warranty. The warranty on a new bobcat is 2 yrs or 2000 hrs

Thanks for the update. That is quite interesting, but I also am a bit skeptical on their solution. I have the same problem with another bucket from a different manufacturer. My machine is a 2016, so warranty is long gone even though low hours. It's a hobby machine, and until this year, has mostly seen snow removal work on the property. It was this summer that I was making some trails in the woods more heavily, and noticed the bucket behavior. I plan to stop at the nearest dealer when I have time to see if they have any ideas. Right now I'm researching to see if anyone makes aftermarket quick attach mechanisms. I still feel like it might be a design issue, and replacing the entire quick attach, though costly, might be the only real solution. I plan to also try shimming the bucket slots where the tapers go in, but I don't see how that would help stop the pins from retracting when pressure is applied. Right now the machine just sits because I don't want to cause wear or bend something because of this bucket issue. Please let us know how your dealer solution works out.

 

[reaperman]

Thanks for the update. That is quite interesting, but I also am a bit skeptical on their solution. I have the same problem with another bucket from a different manufacturer. My machine is a 2016, so warranty is long gone even though low hours. It's a hobby machine, and until this year, has mostly seen snow removal work on the property. It was this summer that I was making some trails in the woods more heavily, and noticed the bucket behavior. I plan to stop at the nearest dealer when I have time to see if they have any ideas. Right now I'm researching to see if anyone makes aftermarket quick attach mechanisms. I still feel like it might be a design issue, and replacing the entire quick attach, though costly, might be the only real solution. I plan to also try shimming the bucket slots where the tapers go in, but I don't see how that would help stop the pins from retracting when pressure is applied. Right now the machine just sits because I don't want to cause wear or bend something because of this bucket issue. Please let us know how your dealer solution works out.

I'm not buying the solution either. Today I will pick the machine up and will be able to see for myself. At first the mechanic said the newer quick attack design has added a gusset plate on the rear of the quick attach for strength, the plate is along side of the two pins. And the gusset wasn't allowing the levers to fully "cam" downward to hold the pins in place. Rather the pins are strait up and down, where the final downward push of the levers should cam and lock into place. I'll follow up later today.

 

[foton]

I'm not buying the solution either. Today I will pick the machine up and will be able to see for myself. At first the mechanic said the newer quick attack design has added a gusset plate on the rear of the quick attach for strength, the plate is along side of the two pins. And the gusset wasn't allowing the levers to fully "cam" downward to hold the pins in place. Rather the pins are strait up and down, where the final downward push of the levers should cam and lock into place. I'll follow up later today.

I am wondering if the measurement between the top angled metal piece that the bucket hangs from and the bottom piece that the pins go threw is larger than it should be, if it was then the pins might not bottom out correctly on the angled part of the pin locking it in place. If you can find a piece of equipment the holds firm measure that then go to bucket that is loose. and see if there is a difference. it might not take much. just thinking maybe the pockets are to large so the welding idea would work. good luck

 

[reaperman]

I am wondering if the measurement between the top angled metal piece that the bucket hangs from and the bottom piece that the pins go threw is larger than it should be, if it was then the pins might not bottom out correctly on the angled part of the pin locking it in place. If you can find a piece of equipment the holds firm measure that then go to bucket that is loose. and see if there is a difference. it might not take much. just thinking maybe the pockets are to large so the welding idea would work. good luck

I went to the dealer yesterday. Again they claimed a different bucket was the answer. So I attached the heavy duty bucket and tried it, same result. I said, " I thought this was the answer". They looked puzzled, duh. I think your correct foton, I said it looks like the pin is too short and the bucket pocket is resting on the angle of the wedge rather than firmly locked down. Anyway I took the machine with me and they again said another customer is having the same issues. My feeling is they won't hunt for a answer and just hope the bucket doesn't start to come off as a result. Future will tell.

 

[revdup]

Foton is giving good info. I may be repeating some of his info. #1; Make sure there is no dirt or anything on the Bob Tac plate or attachment that could be holding the bottom of the attachment away from the Bobtac plate. Even a quarter inch build-up can cause problems. #2; Even one pin not dropping can cause the whole thing to pop off. If you lift the attachment up high you can see the bottom of the pins from the operator seat. See that they are both down. (If I remember right, the pins stick down a noticeable amount.) #3: It would be good to put on another attachment that doesn't pop off and see how far the pins are down. I have a set of forks that will pop off when I'm working back and forth on a stump. I know that one of the pins doesn't go down all the way down because the fork frame is bent... (from working on a stump with one fork) #4; Looking down from above the Bobtac, you can see if the tops of the pins go all the way down. If the pins will move all the way down when unattached then the problem is likely the attachment. If the pins aren't all the way down, it may be necessary to open one or both of the bottom sockets in the bucket. #5; Don't build up a weld under the angle plate unless you know there is warpage or something that changed the original specs. Rather than a weld-pass, tack in an easy to remove temporary shim and see if that helps first. If doing a weld build up is not the correct fix it may make it so the bucket doesn't fit on a different skid steer. #6; Hope all goes well. This is the results of a few of my many mistakes.

 

[pbebobcatt64]

Just found this page after searching around due to having the same exact issue with my T64. What ended up happening with yours?

Bobcat has checked many different things with my machine are are totally stumped. Still going back and forth with them but they are now trying to tell me that the springs compressing, the pins lifting and the slop in the attachments are normal. I said absolutely no way. Any information y'all can give me is greatly appreciated.

 

[Vross]

Simple Fix, for your quick attach that keeps falling off. Most of us really like to keep them oiled and greased so the work easy, however they need just a small amount of friction so the pin does not back out. Degrease the entire mechanism and throw some kind of power on it that will soak up the extra oil, then just wait a half hour and try it out. The extra time will allow the power to soak up the oil. On a side note just be sure that the tension springs have the correct manufacture bolt installed, you wouldn't want one that is after market and not the exact diameter. Always think about adding a small amount of friction to the moving parts of the mechanism when this problem happens.

 

[mrbb]

OK Old post, but from MY experience with quick attach from brand to brand machine, to implement brand , there are some times, different spec's
I have had implements that the distance from top to bottom on quick attach was an inch or more longer than it is on other implements, causing the implement to want to slip off the machines quick attach
I have also found the quick attach on different brands and models to also be longer or shorter
which again then makes some attachments not fit tight or at all at times

I bought a cheaper brand name stiff arm backhoe attachment, and I ended up welding on a 1/2 thick piece of metal under the top tabs, to get it to work on my quick attach, other wise it would pull off quick attach when any real pressure was added to it!!

adding that 1/2 inch, snugged things up nicely and implement has never has a issue since! and was also a cheap fix to the issue!

on another note I have also found that from brand to brand/model to model, there can also be a difference in width of the quick attach on machines, and also, o the backing plate of implements
MY NH skid steer fits on my one set of forks, but my neighbors Bobcat 753 is too wide to get into the implements backing plate, the bob cats quick attach is about 3 or 4 inches wider than the set up on my NH and both machines are all OEM, it was just different specs the brand used when making there(gather to not copy patents or such)
SO< this is why I always measure implements backing plates before I buy them! both top to bottom and side to side, to make sure they will work on the machine I want to use them on!

 

[laurencen]

we have a older 873 the bucket is not snug, this problem allows the bucket to rattle when raised and use the tilt up/down quickly, my fix was to weld a 3/16 shim on the bucket slot, fixed the issue