I need help on my 825

[jeffco]

I realized two things when I bought this machine, one was that it is an older well maintained machine with just under 5000 hours, but second was that 3 of the 4 axle seals are leaking, it appears to be the outer axle seals. The manual is ok but I don't think it illustrates the magnitude of the repair. Just what is involved to replace axle seals. Its a late 1981 model 825. The guy at the rental shop said they are a snap to do, but I'm a vetern mechanic and in my estimation, this is not an easy job like he indicated. Of course the guy I bought it from said, for 5 gallons of oil a year, I live with the leaks but I park it inside and it makes a mess. I bought the machine for snow removal and light work around the yard so it won't see a lot of usage. Thanks in advance for any help, I'm sure I will have additional questions in the future. Jeffco

 

[thetool]

I looked at the job in my manual and it don't look like no “snap” to me either.....=).
I've never done it. The only way I could figure it to be easy is if you could somehow remove the sprocket nuts and slide off the sprockets, leaving the chains and everything in place, then remove the axle housings straight out. Then when you reassembled, were able to slide the sprocket with chain back on the splines of the axle.
Look at your machine and see it that method is even possible. 825's are rare here. I haven't seen one in years.
That's the best I can do.
Good Luck.

 

[Tazza]

I looked at the job in my manual and it don't look like no “snap” to me either.....=).
I've never done it. The only way I could figure it to be easy is if you could somehow remove the sprocket nuts and slide off the sprockets, leaving the chains and everything in place, then remove the axle housings straight out. Then when you reassembled, were able to slide the sprocket with chain back on the splines of the axle.
Look at your machine and see it that method is even possible. 825's are rare here. I haven't seen one in years.
That's the best I can do.
Good Luck.

Exactly!
Hopefully its the same basic setup as a 743, it will have a 1 1/8” bolt inside, you need a ring spanner to hook on it, you hopefully can use the drive motors to crack the bolts as turning the axle hub with the motors full of oil is not an option. I did this on a 453 and worked pretty well. You will then need to use use a porta power or bottle jack with the pump facing downwards to press the axle out of the hub.

 

[thetool]

Exactly!
Hopefully its the same basic setup as a 743, it will have a 1 1/8” bolt inside, you need a ring spanner to hook on it, you hopefully can use the drive motors to crack the bolts as turning the axle hub with the motors full of oil is not an option. I did this on a 453 and worked pretty well. You will then need to use use a porta power or bottle jack with the pump facing downwards to press the axle out of the hub.

It's quite a bit different than the 743......=).

 

[Tazza]

It's quite a bit different than the 743......=).

True, but the bascis should be the same, sorta
The best way is to get a service manual, they will show in detail what you need to do.

 

[coreya3212]

True, but the bascis should be the same, sorta
The best way is to get a service manual, they will show in detail what you need to do.

I have one axle leaking and looked through my service manual. It states that the drive chain must be removed as well as pump and drive motor??? also. Seems like quite a process. This post is sort of getting aged, but does anyone know if the seal replacement was done without having to remove the drive chain etc....I only have one leaking so am likely to leave this one for a while.

 

[Tazza]

I have one axle leaking and looked through my service manual. It states that the drive chain must be removed as well as pump and drive motor??? also. Seems like quite a process. This post is sort of getting aged, but does anyone know if the seal replacement was done without having to remove the drive chain etc....I only have one leaking so am likely to leave this one for a while.

Look at the hub where the wheel attaches, if its welded the whole axle must be removed. If it has bolts its pretty simple. I suspect its the welded style though, sorry! The chain doesn't need to be broken as such, but the axle must be pulled and to gain access you may need to pull the pump, never worked on one so i can't be 100% on that.

 

[coreya3212]

Look at the hub where the wheel attaches, if its welded the whole axle must be removed. If it has bolts its pretty simple. I suspect its the welded style though, sorry! The chain doesn't need to be broken as such, but the axle must be pulled and to gain access you may need to pull the pump, never worked on one so i can't be 100% on that.

I have 2 leaking axles after all and have decided to bite the bullet. I have the cover off. I think the front axles could be removed with out pulling the pump but the rears I cant see it happening. I am gonna pull the pump and attempt the removal leaving the sprocket and chain in tact and obviously slide it back together, then attempt the rear axles in that manner . In the previous post, it is stated that the nut inside would be a 1 1/8" nut? Minehas what looksike about a 3" nutin there with a lock bolt?? Or did that mean the threads fit 1 1/8?

 

[Tazza]

I have 2 leaking axles after all and have decided to bite the bullet. I have the cover off. I think the front axles could be removed with out pulling the pump but the rears I cant see it happening. I am gonna pull the pump and attempt the removal leaving the sprocket and chain in tact and obviously slide it back together, then attempt the rear axles in that manner . In the previous post, it is stated that the nut inside would be a 1 1/8" nut? Minehas what looksike about a 3" nutin there with a lock bolt?? Or did that mean the threads fit 1 1/8?

1 1/8” is what the 7 series run, 8 series are larger so naturally use larger bolts....
You have the rite idea, you remove the bolts and leave the chain attached to the sprocket in the chain case, replace the seals then slide it back in and bolt it up. Its a job that you really need 2 ppl to help push it back in though, you will find that out pretty fast. Ensure you grease up the bearings before installation, you may even swap them out while in there.

 

[coreya3212]

1 1/8” is what the 7 series run, 8 series are larger so naturally use larger bolts....
You have the rite idea, you remove the bolts and leave the chain attached to the sprocket in the chain case, replace the seals then slide it back in and bolt it up. Its a job that you really need 2 ppl to help push it back in though, you will find that out pretty fast. Ensure you grease up the bearings before installation, you may even swap them out while in there.

Well, I am making progress. I removed all axles but could not get the inner bearings in place without breaking the chain and moving the sprocket. Just not enough room to get the bearing in between the sprocket and the side of the hydraulic reservoir, and zero side to sode movement in the chain. So I replaced the seals on one side left the chain in place around the reduction gear and idler so wasnt to bad to fish back over the axle sprockets after all was back in place. Put the rear axle in first as the fronts allow better access for reconnecting the chain. Now I still have to do the right side. This will be a little tougher as I have to fish the chain over the idler as I needed to replace the seal in the idler so had to remove that. But I think I will get there, My question is, the manual states that before starting, I need to prime the pump by removing the Implement hose, and engaging the starter, with the throttle off so it wont start, until oil comes out. Then reconnect the hose and I think thats it. Does that really make sense to anyone. Could you not just engage the starter for a while with the hose connected??

 

[Tazza]

Well, I am making progress. I removed all axles but could not get the inner bearings in place without breaking the chain and moving the sprocket. Just not enough room to get the bearing in between the sprocket and the side of the hydraulic reservoir, and zero side to sode movement in the chain. So I replaced the seals on one side left the chain in place around the reduction gear and idler so wasnt to bad to fish back over the axle sprockets after all was back in place. Put the rear axle in first as the fronts allow better access for reconnecting the chain. Now I still have to do the right side. This will be a little tougher as I have to fish the chain over the idler as I needed to replace the seal in the idler so had to remove that. But I think I will get there, My question is, the manual states that before starting, I need to prime the pump by removing the Implement hose, and engaging the starter, with the throttle off so it wont start, until oil comes out. Then reconnect the hose and I think thats it. Does that really make sense to anyone. Could you not just engage the starter for a while with the hose connected??

That doesn't make sense to me either sorry.... I can't see that it is something that is needed while working in the chain case.... BUT i have never worked on one of these machines.

 

[coreya3212]

That doesn't make sense to me either sorry.... I can't see that it is something that is needed while working in the chain case.... BUT i have never worked on one of these machines.

Actually, I think to make this make sense. The 825 does not have a separate chain case. I saw pics of your, 743 rebuild i think, showing a case with the lid off and basically all that in there is the chains and sprockets from what the picture tells. On the 825, the chains, pump assembly, drive motor, reductions gears and internal Hyd filter all are located in what I can only describe as a big bathtub that is the hydraulic reservoir. Basically everythin is on one compartment, oil has been drained and hoses etc. So i guess that if everything is empty, or close to it, does the pump need to be primed in the way described as in removing a hose till oil flows. I ask this for 2 reasons. the first being that if the implement hose being removed , and replaced when the pump starts to move oil through it, to me means that the pump still has to pick up oil from being dry, so what difference does it ake if you can see it or not. and second, it seems everyone says that when there is air in your system, just run everything and it eventually bleeds out. Yeah, I just read this and it sounds confusing to me too. Thanks for trying to help me anyways. Corey.

 

[thetool]

Actually, I think to make this make sense. The 825 does not have a separate chain case. I saw pics of your, 743 rebuild i think, showing a case with the lid off and basically all that in there is the chains and sprockets from what the picture tells. On the 825, the chains, pump assembly, drive motor, reductions gears and internal Hyd filter all are located in what I can only describe as a big bathtub that is the hydraulic reservoir. Basically everythin is on one compartment, oil has been drained and hoses etc. So i guess that if everything is empty, or close to it, does the pump need to be primed in the way described as in removing a hose till oil flows. I ask this for 2 reasons. the first being that if the implement hose being removed , and replaced when the pump starts to move oil through it, to me means that the pump still has to pick up oil from being dry, so what difference does it ake if you can see it or not. and second, it seems everyone says that when there is air in your system, just run everything and it eventually bleeds out. Yeah, I just read this and it sounds confusing to me too. Thanks for trying to help me anyways. Corey.

I've been following and keeping silent because I'm not really up-to-speed on the 825.
I'll say this-about bleeding and self-bleeding and stuff. Back when the 825 was designed, hydrostatic drive was still pretty new on compact equipment.
What you've got with the 825 is your pumps sit in oil bath, and the reservior level is below the ideal level in the pump, so designers and service manual writers thought it best to include a bleeding procedure, to eliminate any chance of damaging a pump by running it dry. It's more CYA than anything, IMO.
Newer hydrostatic technologies (453 and 463 excepted) place the reservoirs where the hydrostats will be flooded by gravity when filling the tank.
My advice is to follow the bleeding procedure if you're unsure, but I also see your point as to its necessity. I've had a couple of 825's scattered over the years, and I don't recall having any trouble with them starting up and working just fine. Crank it over a few times without starting, then start it for a sec in idle, then let it run and listen at an idle, and it should all bleed out just fine.

 

[coreya3212]

I've been following and keeping silent because I'm not really up-to-speed on the 825.
I'll say this-about bleeding and self-bleeding and stuff. Back when the 825 was designed, hydrostatic drive was still pretty new on compact equipment.
What you've got with the 825 is your pumps sit in oil bath, and the reservior level is below the ideal level in the pump, so designers and service manual writers thought it best to include a bleeding procedure, to eliminate any chance of damaging a pump by running it dry. It's more CYA than anything, IMO.
Newer hydrostatic technologies (453 and 463 excepted) place the reservoirs where the hydrostats will be flooded by gravity when filling the tank.
My advice is to follow the bleeding procedure if you're unsure, but I also see your point as to its necessity. I've had a couple of 825's scattered over the years, and I don't recall having any trouble with them starting up and working just fine. Crank it over a few times without starting, then start it for a sec in idle, then let it run and listen at an idle, and it should all bleed out just fine.

please DONT keep silent, ever never. I am greatful to yourself and Tazza for any and all comments. I know the 825 is rare these days and am just trying to understand things. I pick up quite a bit from just reading everyones problems and solutions. Thanks again for any and all input. If I can get her back together and working, hopefully I can lead someone else down the right trail. Thanks again.

 

[Tazza]

please DONT keep silent, ever never. I am greatful to yourself and Tazza for any and all comments. I know the 825 is rare these days and am just trying to understand things. I pick up quite a bit from just reading everyones problems and solutions. Thanks again for any and all input. If I can get her back together and working, hopefully I can lead someone else down the right trail. Thanks again.

I have to agree that you may need to prime the hydraulic system after this. The way hydraulic pumps are designed is they do NOT like drawing oil up from the reserve tank. All the newer machines have the oil reserve above the pump so gravity would fill the pump with oil (to an extent). Nothing worse than running the pump dry and damaging it. If the book tells you to prime it, i would make sure you did just that
Let us know how you go with it all. It sounds like you are making pretty good progress so far.
What Shane said is good advise too, i did that with my 743 with a totally dry system. Spun it over without letting it start then check for oil. Finally let it start then idle and stop.

 

[coreya3212]

I have to agree that you may need to prime the hydraulic system after this. The way hydraulic pumps are designed is they do NOT like drawing oil up from the reserve tank. All the newer machines have the oil reserve above the pump so gravity would fill the pump with oil (to an extent). Nothing worse than running the pump dry and damaging it. If the book tells you to prime it, i would make sure you did just that
Let us know how you go with it all. It sounds like you are making pretty good progress so far.
What Shane said is good advise too, i did that with my 743 with a totally dry system. Spun it over without letting it start then check for oil. Finally let it start then idle and stop.

Ya, both you fellas are making sense, and re-reading the manual. If I am getting the jist of what you are both sayin, is too make sure the unit is pulling oil, once that is established all should be fine. It does state to jog the engine with the throttle off so it doesnt actually start. Thanks guys, and I will update.

 

[coreya3212]

Ya, both you fellas are making sense, and re-reading the manual. If I am getting the jist of what you are both sayin, is too make sure the unit is pulling oil, once that is established all should be fine. It does state to jog the engine with the throttle off so it doesnt actually start. Thanks guys, and I will update.

I guess its called the idler assembly. External housing for drive chainadjustment, shaft running through to a sprocket. Sprocket has a bearing on both sides, when I tighten the bolt and thick washer the sprocket becomes tight. This should spin by hand should it not? There is ONE spacer, when it came off, should there be a spacer on both sides or would one be normal? Manual shows the internal adjustment with 2 spacers and mentions that they are matched to the set of bearings. I have the external adjustment, it makes no mention of spacers in the text, and there is no exploded view of the external adjuster?? Anyone have any thoughts? I cant see the other side to verify with out removing the chain and likely pulling the reduction gear as well. Thanks to anyone putting me in the right direction.

 

[coreya3212]

I guess its called the idler assembly. External housing for drive chainadjustment, shaft running through to a sprocket. Sprocket has a bearing on both sides, when I tighten the bolt and thick washer the sprocket becomes tight. This should spin by hand should it not? There is ONE spacer, when it came off, should there be a spacer on both sides or would one be normal? Manual shows the internal adjustment with 2 spacers and mentions that they are matched to the set of bearings. I have the external adjustment, it makes no mention of spacers in the text, and there is no exploded view of the external adjuster?? Anyone have any thoughts? I cant see the other side to verify with out removing the chain and likely pulling the reduction gear as well. Thanks to anyone putting me in the right direction.

Nevermind. I feel like a moron. I am pretty sure the one spacer goes inside the sprocket between the bearings.... I will give that a go tonight.....hopefully thats the the last dumb thing I do at least during this repair.

 

[Tazza]

Nevermind. I feel like a moron. I am pretty sure the one spacer goes inside the sprocket between the bearings.... I will give that a go tonight.....hopefully thats the the last dumb thing I do at least during this repair.

Don't be too hard on your self, you are doing pretty well with no guidance from anyone else! I know when i started on my machines i asked a heap of quetions and got replies as others had experience with them.