Huge problem....rented bobcat stuck/won't run

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T190stuck

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My dad rented a bobcat and he was crossing over a root in the ground which caused the tracks to slide. The bobcat slid down an embankment and got stuck in a huge mud hole. The mud/water got up high enough to get into the floor of the cab. If this wasn't bad enough now the engine will not even turn over. It ran when it was first stuck, but then started doing something where it'd only run for 10 seconds and shut off. He said something like the check fuel solenoid? light came on. When you turn the key it just beeps and will not turn over. This thing is about 1/4 mile down in the woods so it's hard to get equipment down to it. I don't think a crane could get down in there. My dad's boss brought his excavator and dug a trench to let some of the water drain away, so the water is only about 4 inches deep now. But the mud around the bobcat is still deep...up to the cab lip in the front. We are expecting rain again tomorrow :(. Does anyone know if insurance from these rental places typically covers recovery? They won't be open again until Monday so it's hard to ask them and the paperwork doesn't mention it. I'm really at a loss trying to help him. He is frustrated and my mom is very upset b/c every day it is stuck it's costing them money. If anyone has any helpful suggestions, please let me know, thanks, Cam
 
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T190stuck

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I apologize for the text being run together in the above post, I had it spaced out and can't figure out how to edit it. Cam
 

BobCat

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I apologize for the text being run together in the above post, I had it spaced out and can't figure out how to edit it. Cam
Find a block and tackle and a good stout hand comealong. Hook the comealong to a tree and rig up the block and tackle to the Bobcat. Then hand winch it out onto level ground. Did this with my 720 once. Would be nice if it ran but sounds like you need to get it out of the mud hole first. Good luck, let us know what works, later BobCat.
 

BobCat

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Find a block and tackle and a good stout hand comealong. Hook the comealong to a tree and rig up the block and tackle to the Bobcat. Then hand winch it out onto level ground. Did this with my 720 once. Would be nice if it ran but sounds like you need to get it out of the mud hole first. Good luck, let us know what works, later BobCat.
I forgot about the brake being locked?? Need it runing I guess. Boy I wasn't any help!! Sorry BobCat.
 

Tazza

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I forgot about the brake being locked?? Need it runing I guess. Boy I wasn't any help!! Sorry BobCat.
If its a late model machine (which i suspect it is as its being rented) this could be bad. It sounds like you may have got the BOSS computer wet or a sender. This would explain it running and then stops, it would also explain why it will not even crank now as it has safety devices to prevent damage if it feels there is a problem. I think this box also controls starting, thats why it won't even crank over now.
Insurance should cover the damage, but i honestly doubt it would cover retrieval of the machine. Using a block and tackle is a good idea, even though it will not drive you can pull it out. The slippery mud would help a lot with allowing it to slip out of the mud hole. If you can get your buddy with his excavator to try and drag the machine while you are dragging it with the come along or block and tackle it may help too.
Good luck with getting it out, i'm sure you will find a way.
 

Fishfiles

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If its a late model machine (which i suspect it is as its being rented) this could be bad. It sounds like you may have got the BOSS computer wet or a sender. This would explain it running and then stops, it would also explain why it will not even crank now as it has safety devices to prevent damage if it feels there is a problem. I think this box also controls starting, thats why it won't even crank over now.
Insurance should cover the damage, but i honestly doubt it would cover retrieval of the machine. Using a block and tackle is a good idea, even though it will not drive you can pull it out. The slippery mud would help a lot with allowing it to slip out of the mud hole. If you can get your buddy with his excavator to try and drag the machine while you are dragging it with the come along or block and tackle it may help too.
Good luck with getting it out, i'm sure you will find a way.
I'd say you have a Huge Problem also , I use to work for a rental house for quite a few years and seen this senerio more times than I can count , the insurance /damage wavier you talk about wouldn't cover any kind of recovery effort or any kind of repairs reqiured once the unit is recovered as that would be considered operator error and should fall to your insurance if you have any , but with that being said who knows how you will treated by the company you rented it from , as every ones policies can be different ------------- recovery can be extremely expensive , but the repairs to the machine can be alot more , thinking back on a worst case I seen , a Takeuchi TB70 went down over the seat and over the valve cover in mud and water , the biggest dozer we could get over a bridge to get to it was a 5 series Cat , the engine had sucked water on the TB 70 and it was a dead soldier , the Cat could not pull it out , had to get a second machine which was an excavator to dig out around the sunk machine then the two machines pulled it out , the trouble was just starting then , it was a mile to hard roads and the rolloff truck couldn't get to it thru the winding trails , we had to drag it thru the woods , upon getting to the yard it took several hours of cleaning , an engine rebuild as dirt and water had filled the crank case and cylinders while the engine was running and bent a connecting rod , all kinds of electrical problems to solve including starter , alterator , relays , burned out wiring , with all the extra machines rentals , delivery and pickup fees and repairs it was very expensive and the customers insurance refused to pay for it which let the customer liable for the whole deal , the owner of my company made a deal with the renter and he bought the machine after it was repaired ----------it would help if I knew what machine you are working on , up to the lip of the cab sounds bad
 

switzforge

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Could a comersial (18 wheeler sized) tow truck get in. That would have the power to drag the thing back out. Others must have beter block and tackle / come alongs than I have, I would never dream of trying to move a skid steer with mine. Hiring profesional help is much cheaper than the medical bills if someone gets hurt trying to move it with makeshift means.
 
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T190stuck

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Could a comersial (18 wheeler sized) tow truck get in. That would have the power to drag the thing back out. Others must have beter block and tackle / come alongs than I have, I would never dream of trying to move a skid steer with mine. Hiring profesional help is much cheaper than the medical bills if someone gets hurt trying to move it with makeshift means.
I appreciate the replies. I guess I'm not really sure what you guys mean by block and tackle....would someone explain that? I've never operated this bobcat, so I don't know about the brake not being able to be released unless it's running. That may not matter too much since the mud is so slick, at least for getting it out of the hole itself, but the ground behind it isn't very solid. And actually in front of the bobcat the ground is pretty sloppy, so if someone wanted to get down in there they'd have to pull it from 20 or so feet away. Another bad thing is that front of the bobcat is lower (deeper in the mud) than the back and the bucket is down which would hinder pulling it out from the front. The engine is above the mud/water enough to barely get the back door open after some digging, so I know the intake hasn't sucked up any water. I do have a hand come-along but I'm not sure if it's up to the task. My friend let me borrow it and told me that he wouldn't use it alone to pull the bobcat out. Who knows how much extra weight the suction of the mud is causing. I used a similar come-along to pull a 3200lb car on a car trailer before that had a wheel that was pushed into the inner fender and the come-along snapped into a couple pieces (pretty dangerous). An 18 wheeler wouldn't be able to get down there, unfortunately. I'm starting to wonder if someone who has a 4wd truck that is equipped for offroading (has a winch that can handle this kind of weight) and the truck is chained to a tree, if that could possibly pull it out. I hope that the computer/electrical system is not screwed up and I hope this rental place will be understanding. The bobcat is a T190, I don't know the year. I'm not sure what other details about it would help. I'm pretty annoyed with the situation, but I may go take some pictures later if it would help. Thanks, Cam
 

OldMachinist

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I appreciate the replies. I guess I'm not really sure what you guys mean by block and tackle....would someone explain that? I've never operated this bobcat, so I don't know about the brake not being able to be released unless it's running. That may not matter too much since the mud is so slick, at least for getting it out of the hole itself, but the ground behind it isn't very solid. And actually in front of the bobcat the ground is pretty sloppy, so if someone wanted to get down in there they'd have to pull it from 20 or so feet away. Another bad thing is that front of the bobcat is lower (deeper in the mud) than the back and the bucket is down which would hinder pulling it out from the front. The engine is above the mud/water enough to barely get the back door open after some digging, so I know the intake hasn't sucked up any water. I do have a hand come-along but I'm not sure if it's up to the task. My friend let me borrow it and told me that he wouldn't use it alone to pull the bobcat out. Who knows how much extra weight the suction of the mud is causing. I used a similar come-along to pull a 3200lb car on a car trailer before that had a wheel that was pushed into the inner fender and the come-along snapped into a couple pieces (pretty dangerous). An 18 wheeler wouldn't be able to get down there, unfortunately. I'm starting to wonder if someone who has a 4wd truck that is equipped for offroading (has a winch that can handle this kind of weight) and the truck is chained to a tree, if that could possibly pull it out. I hope that the computer/electrical system is not screwed up and I hope this rental place will be understanding. The bobcat is a T190, I don't know the year. I'm not sure what other details about it would help. I'm pretty annoyed with the situation, but I may go take some pictures later if it would help. Thanks, Cam
The T190 has a operating weight of 7244 lbs. so a 4wd truck with a winch with enough capacity might pull it out. I've winched my 453 out of a few mud holes with a 8,000 lbs winch that I have on my truck but a 453 only weighs 2700 lbs. I had to do it last week and it put quite a strain on it. I was pulling up hill about 30 degrees for 40' and didn't have any help so it was dragging it the whole way.
Good Luck
 

Fishfiles

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I appreciate the replies. I guess I'm not really sure what you guys mean by block and tackle....would someone explain that? I've never operated this bobcat, so I don't know about the brake not being able to be released unless it's running. That may not matter too much since the mud is so slick, at least for getting it out of the hole itself, but the ground behind it isn't very solid. And actually in front of the bobcat the ground is pretty sloppy, so if someone wanted to get down in there they'd have to pull it from 20 or so feet away. Another bad thing is that front of the bobcat is lower (deeper in the mud) than the back and the bucket is down which would hinder pulling it out from the front. The engine is above the mud/water enough to barely get the back door open after some digging, so I know the intake hasn't sucked up any water. I do have a hand come-along but I'm not sure if it's up to the task. My friend let me borrow it and told me that he wouldn't use it alone to pull the bobcat out. Who knows how much extra weight the suction of the mud is causing. I used a similar come-along to pull a 3200lb car on a car trailer before that had a wheel that was pushed into the inner fender and the come-along snapped into a couple pieces (pretty dangerous). An 18 wheeler wouldn't be able to get down there, unfortunately. I'm starting to wonder if someone who has a 4wd truck that is equipped for offroading (has a winch that can handle this kind of weight) and the truck is chained to a tree, if that could possibly pull it out. I hope that the computer/electrical system is not screwed up and I hope this rental place will be understanding. The bobcat is a T190, I don't know the year. I'm not sure what other details about it would help. I'm pretty annoyed with the situation, but I may go take some pictures later if it would help. Thanks, Cam
From what I am gathering from last post , sounds like the fuse /relay box which is between your legs , under a cover with two 1/2 headed bolts holding it in , if you were sitting in the seat could be wet and why it won't run -----------the controller is behind the cover by your left knee if you were sitting in the seat , the newer controllers are pretty water tight , the plugs in will leak water into them and cause problem , ---------I would think you will need a excavator around 20,000 lbs and a heavy chain or cable , then partially dig out then pull the machine to dry ground , also the excavator could lift the machine up on corners and try to slide some wood under the machine , this will help to break the suction of the mud
 

switzforge

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I appreciate the replies. I guess I'm not really sure what you guys mean by block and tackle....would someone explain that? I've never operated this bobcat, so I don't know about the brake not being able to be released unless it's running. That may not matter too much since the mud is so slick, at least for getting it out of the hole itself, but the ground behind it isn't very solid. And actually in front of the bobcat the ground is pretty sloppy, so if someone wanted to get down in there they'd have to pull it from 20 or so feet away. Another bad thing is that front of the bobcat is lower (deeper in the mud) than the back and the bucket is down which would hinder pulling it out from the front. The engine is above the mud/water enough to barely get the back door open after some digging, so I know the intake hasn't sucked up any water. I do have a hand come-along but I'm not sure if it's up to the task. My friend let me borrow it and told me that he wouldn't use it alone to pull the bobcat out. Who knows how much extra weight the suction of the mud is causing. I used a similar come-along to pull a 3200lb car on a car trailer before that had a wheel that was pushed into the inner fender and the come-along snapped into a couple pieces (pretty dangerous). An 18 wheeler wouldn't be able to get down there, unfortunately. I'm starting to wonder if someone who has a 4wd truck that is equipped for offroading (has a winch that can handle this kind of weight) and the truck is chained to a tree, if that could possibly pull it out. I hope that the computer/electrical system is not screwed up and I hope this rental place will be understanding. The bobcat is a T190, I don't know the year. I'm not sure what other details about it would help. I'm pretty annoyed with the situation, but I may go take some pictures later if it would help. Thanks, Cam
Might be easier to look up Block ad Tackle on the net to see a picture. Esentisally it is a system of pulleys and ropes that reduce the effort needed to pull or lift loads. Each time the rope passes though a pulley and double back on it's self the load gets lighter. Pulleys or block capable of pulling a skid steer are very expensive and probably not available locally. In theory a 1 ton comealong with a block and tackle that changes direction 5 times 5:1 would pull 10,000 lbs. you would need the block and tackle to brated to the 10,000 lb load as well as the rope that strong, you would also need well over 100' of rope to make the 20' pull you mentioned. A wrecker capable of pulling a semi truck and trailer would probably pull it right out.
 

jerry

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Might be easier to look up Block ad Tackle on the net to see a picture. Esentisally it is a system of pulleys and ropes that reduce the effort needed to pull or lift loads. Each time the rope passes though a pulley and double back on it's self the load gets lighter. Pulleys or block capable of pulling a skid steer are very expensive and probably not available locally. In theory a 1 ton comealong with a block and tackle that changes direction 5 times 5:1 would pull 10,000 lbs. you would need the block and tackle to brated to the 10,000 lb load as well as the rope that strong, you would also need well over 100' of rope to make the 20' pull you mentioned. A wrecker capable of pulling a semi truck and trailer would probably pull it right out.
If you can get a medium size crawler with a winch or a log skidder back there it will pull it out with the winch, we buried our D4 cat in over the tracks and a wrecker could do nothing but a allis crawler with a winch pulled it out. If you use a comealong do not use one of those imported cable ones. A good industrial one with a chain would help and could probably be rented but you still need a anchoring place for it. good luck with this problem.
 
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T190stuck

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If you can get a medium size crawler with a winch or a log skidder back there it will pull it out with the winch, we buried our D4 cat in over the tracks and a wrecker could do nothing but a allis crawler with a winch pulled it out. If you use a comealong do not use one of those imported cable ones. A good industrial one with a chain would help and could probably be rented but you still need a anchoring place for it. good luck with this problem.
Jerry, I will relay that info to him, thank you. Thanks for the info. I think I'm going to go walk down there and see if I can find the fuse/relay box & controller....it probably did get wet. I just don't know if a huge excavator can get down there without some trees having to be cut. I would say it's barely wide enough for a mid 80s full size blazer to get down there. I'm asking around to see if anyone has a 4wd truck with a capable winch. I will try sliding wood under it if we get someone who can get it lifted up. My dad is going to call the owner of the rental place in the morning and explain the situation and see if he wants to try to get it out or if we should continue to try. Needless to say, he's never allowed to rent a bobcat again.
 

TriHonu

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Jerry, I will relay that info to him, thank you. Thanks for the info. I think I'm going to go walk down there and see if I can find the fuse/relay box & controller....it probably did get wet. I just don't know if a huge excavator can get down there without some trees having to be cut. I would say it's barely wide enough for a mid 80s full size blazer to get down there. I'm asking around to see if anyone has a 4wd truck with a capable winch. I will try sliding wood under it if we get someone who can get it lifted up. My dad is going to call the owner of the rental place in the morning and explain the situation and see if he wants to try to get it out or if we should continue to try. Needless to say, he's never allowed to rent a bobcat again.
When dealing with stuck vehicles I was taught to:
1. Stabilize the vehicle to prevent it from getting worse.
If you have them, attach cables to keep it from sinking further or farther down the slope.

Get something solid under the vehicle if possible. We have cut trees and used pieces wider than the loader and started them under the tracks and used the tracks to help roll them under the machine. We have also raised the loader and built a mat of logs so you can push the bucket down on them to help raise the front of the machine. On steel track machines we have cabled logs to the tracks to pull the logs under the loader. Don't spin the wheels or tracks unless it is improving the situation.
2. Try to keep it operational. A dead machine is exponentially harder to extract.
You have already gotten to a very challenging position. If getting a large winch truck to the site is not an option, getting the loader restarted may be a necessity to aid the extraction. At this point I would check the battery and the fuel level and pull the dip stick and make sure there is no water in the crankcase! If the motor has gotten water/mud in it turning it over will make things worse. If the loader has voltage, get us a picture of the display or the exact error code to help determine what error the loader is displaying.
If you are significantly nose down your fuel may have pooled in the front of the tank away from the pickup. You may now have air in the system that will need to be bled. There is a vent on the injector pump that must be opened and a primer bulb on the fuel line running to the injector pump near the back of the engine. You need to keep squeezing the bulb until it becomes firm, then close the vent. There are a number of threads that have covered priming an engine that has run out of fuel.
If you can get it started a tow truck with a winch along with the loader helping may be enough.
You should probably get a hold of the rental business and let them know the situation. They have a vested interest in resolving the problem and probably have the equipment and mechanics to deal with it. It might be cheaper in the long run to get them involved so they can participate and in their eyes "Keep you from doing any more damage to their equipment."
As Fishfiles stated, you are not the first one to get in this situation.
Wishing you some luck, you are going to need it...
 
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T190stuck

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When dealing with stuck vehicles I was taught to:
1. Stabilize the vehicle to prevent it from getting worse.
If you have them, attach cables to keep it from sinking further or farther down the slope.

Get something solid under the vehicle if possible. We have cut trees and used pieces wider than the loader and started them under the tracks and used the tracks to help roll them under the machine. We have also raised the loader and built a mat of logs so you can push the bucket down on them to help raise the front of the machine. On steel track machines we have cabled logs to the tracks to pull the logs under the loader. Don't spin the wheels or tracks unless it is improving the situation.
2. Try to keep it operational. A dead machine is exponentially harder to extract.
You have already gotten to a very challenging position. If getting a large winch truck to the site is not an option, getting the loader restarted may be a necessity to aid the extraction. At this point I would check the battery and the fuel level and pull the dip stick and make sure there is no water in the crankcase! If the motor has gotten water/mud in it turning it over will make things worse. If the loader has voltage, get us a picture of the display or the exact error code to help determine what error the loader is displaying.
If you are significantly nose down your fuel may have pooled in the front of the tank away from the pickup. You may now have air in the system that will need to be bled. There is a vent on the injector pump that must be opened and a primer bulb on the fuel line running to the injector pump near the back of the engine. You need to keep squeezing the bulb until it becomes firm, then close the vent. There are a number of threads that have covered priming an engine that has run out of fuel.
If you can get it started a tow truck with a winch along with the loader helping may be enough.
You should probably get a hold of the rental business and let them know the situation. They have a vested interest in resolving the problem and probably have the equipment and mechanics to deal with it. It might be cheaper in the long run to get them involved so they can participate and in their eyes "Keep you from doing any more damage to their equipment."
As Fishfiles stated, you are not the first one to get in this situation.
Wishing you some luck, you are going to need it...
TriHonu, very good points. I just went down to take some pics. The water level at one point (before the trench was dug) was above the fuse/relay box. Unfortunately, it has rained again and now the water level is a good foot and a half now it looks like.
HPIM1219.jpg
HPIM1220.jpg
HPIM1221.jpg
HPIM1222.jpg
HPIM1223.jpg
 
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T190stuck

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TriHonu, very good points. I just went down to take some pics. The water level at one point (before the trench was dug) was above the fuse/relay box. Unfortunately, it has rained again and now the water level is a good foot and a half now it looks like.
Ok, so I guess image tags don't work on here, here is a link to the gallery with the pics: http://s16.photobucket.com/albums/b26/Camshaft2/Bobcat%20Fiasco/
 

skidsteer.ca

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switzforge

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TriHonu, very good points. I just went down to take some pics. The water level at one point (before the trench was dug) was above the fuse/relay box. Unfortunately, it has rained again and now the water level is a good foot and a half now it looks like.
WOW!!! Sky Crane? Buy the skid steer and call it art? Sorry not much help, I'm jst glad no one got hurt riding that down the hill.. Would have been horrible if it had rolled and gone in upside down. Perhaps if there are some profesional logging equipment opperators. My wifes uncle used to tell a story about a D9 Cat sliding off a barge into the lake wehn he was logging in the pacific north west. They strung a cable accross the lake ran another cable from that down to the sunk Cat and hauled it back up and onto shore.
 
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T190stuck

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WOW!!! Sky Crane? Buy the skid steer and call it art? Sorry not much help, I'm jst glad no one got hurt riding that down the hill.. Would have been horrible if it had rolled and gone in upside down. Perhaps if there are some profesional logging equipment opperators. My wifes uncle used to tell a story about a D9 Cat sliding off a barge into the lake wehn he was logging in the pacific north west. They strung a cable accross the lake ran another cable from that down to the sunk Cat and hauled it back up and onto shore.
If it wasn't so wet I don't think the problem would be as severe, but the rain I believe has caused the no run situation (maybe if it's something in the fuse box) and makes it hard for other equipment to get to it/pull it out. I'm thinking that maybe if we cut that tree down that is behind the bobcat that another machine could get a long chain and pull it backwards from a spot with more traction. It's a bad situation and unfortunately I can't even laugh at it. And yes, it could have been worse if he had ended up upside down.....probably be dead. Honestly if there's a sky crane that can lift this amount of weight it'd probably be the fastest/easiest way to get it out, but I assume that'd be $$$ which we don't have. Cam
 
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