flipping over

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Whitey

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Joined
Jul 26, 2007
Messages
17
I'm helping my brother-in law repair eroded ground behind nine log cabins overlooking a creek, the lowest cabin is about is about 20' up from the creek but the forth one is about 80' we're building a path behind the cabins about 7' wide, he's using a mini-excavator which he drives right up the side of the revenge, he's also a heavy equipment operator all his life. I'm feeding him dirt going along this path as he grades it, I'm using an older Bobcat 631 which I've only owned for about 6 months and used on flat ground. What I'm wondering is how easy do these skid steers tip over backwards, we're now getting close to the third cabin the grade is steep enough you can't walk up it, when I bring a bucket of fill up and raise it just enough to dump. it feels like the machine is going to flip over backwards, and it's a long ways down, also would a track machine be better suited for a job like this. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Whitey
 

Tazza

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The rule is, keep the heaviest part of your machine up hill and you will be fine. When the bucket is full this is the heaviest end but when empty the engine bay is heaviest. Avoid lifting the bucket high when facing up a hill as your centre of gravity will be pushed back and you *can* tip back. Its really just what you feel comfortable with. You can feel when the machine is light on its front wheels.
In your situation you should be backing up the hill and dumping in front of you and leveling it a bit so you can drive back down the hill, at least thats how i would be doing it.
 

nailsbeats

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Feb 11, 2007
Messages
135
The answer for steep grades is (1) a track machine, or (2) heavy over the tire tracks.
Track machines are amazing as far as stability and traction. The weight of the machine is low and spread out. Also, their is much more square footage of grip touching the ground.
TRACTION: If you are the wrong way on a steep grade and you break traction, you can slide and roll easily with the kinetic energy you created.
STABILITY: Tracks spread out the ground preasure and allow you to go over obstacles smoother because objects can't get between your tires and bounce you.
Without getting a different machine, the best solution would be an investment in a good set of Over The Tire tracks. If you put a good heavy set on, it will add a lot of weight down low and won't even feel like the same machine. Pushing power will also be greatly increased due to the added traction.
If either of these solutions aren't an option and you are nervous about the grade, then do like Taz said and get your ass end facing uphill and go slow. Better safe than sorry.
 

Whitey

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Jul 26, 2007
Messages
17
The answer for steep grades is (1) a track machine, or (2) heavy over the tire tracks.
Track machines are amazing as far as stability and traction. The weight of the machine is low and spread out. Also, their is much more square footage of grip touching the ground.
TRACTION: If you are the wrong way on a steep grade and you break traction, you can slide and roll easily with the kinetic energy you created.
STABILITY: Tracks spread out the ground preasure and allow you to go over obstacles smoother because objects can't get between your tires and bounce you.
Without getting a different machine, the best solution would be an investment in a good set of Over The Tire tracks. If you put a good heavy set on, it will add a lot of weight down low and won't even feel like the same machine. Pushing power will also be greatly increased due to the added traction.
If either of these solutions aren't an option and you are nervous about the grade, then do like Taz said and get your ass end facing uphill and go slow. Better safe than sorry.
It's to steep to back up and dump, I tried that down further on a lot lesser grade I only raised the bucket about a foot and it tipped forward, plus it's too far to back up beings the trail's windy and not much wider then the machine and the shoulder is soft, I already had my rear tire go off the edge and was teeter tottering on two wheels. I want to thank nailsbeats and Taz for your input. I'm going to try to talk my brother-in-law into renting a small track machine beings I don't feel comfortable on mine plus mine doesn't have a seatbelt in it.
 

Tazza

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It's to steep to back up and dump, I tried that down further on a lot lesser grade I only raised the bucket about a foot and it tipped forward, plus it's too far to back up beings the trail's windy and not much wider then the machine and the shoulder is soft, I already had my rear tire go off the edge and was teeter tottering on two wheels. I want to thank nailsbeats and Taz for your input. I'm going to try to talk my brother-in-law into renting a small track machine beings I don't feel comfortable on mine plus mine doesn't have a seatbelt in it.
That sounds like a better option, you don't want to get hurt (or worse) doing a job like this. It sounds like a really steep hill....
The only other thing i can think of is maybe hiring a 4 in 1 bucket. I found it works better to dump as you don't need to raise the bucket much to dump, just open lift slightly and back out. The bucket also has the added weight that will assist in stability. I do love my 4 in 1, i'm still amazed they never caught on in the states.....
Just an option.
 

skippyman

Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
16
That sounds like a better option, you don't want to get hurt (or worse) doing a job like this. It sounds like a really steep hill....
The only other thing i can think of is maybe hiring a 4 in 1 bucket. I found it works better to dump as you don't need to raise the bucket much to dump, just open lift slightly and back out. The bucket also has the added weight that will assist in stability. I do love my 4 in 1, i'm still amazed they never caught on in the states.....
Just an option.
What about rolling? Is there any rule of thumb as to how much of a slant you can drive along sideways?
Thanks
Brant
 

skidsteer.ca

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Jan 20, 2006
Messages
3,853
What about rolling? Is there any rule of thumb as to how much of a slant you can drive along sideways?
Thanks
Brant
Brant
That really depends on each machines center of gravity and overall width. again tracks help with both. Remember when working side slope lift the load raises the center of gravity and makes you tip easier!!!
As far as not being able to back up the hill, if your tipping forward your bucket is too full. As for sideways rolling, the steeper the grade the more you have to climb straight up it as opposed to going sideways across it. Also, trust you seat of the pants meter, if its got you worried you better heed it.
Ken
 

shallowwater9

Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2006
Messages
5
The answer for steep grades is (1) a track machine, or (2) heavy over the tire tracks.
Track machines are amazing as far as stability and traction. The weight of the machine is low and spread out. Also, their is much more square footage of grip touching the ground.
TRACTION: If you are the wrong way on a steep grade and you break traction, you can slide and roll easily with the kinetic energy you created.
STABILITY: Tracks spread out the ground preasure and allow you to go over obstacles smoother because objects can't get between your tires and bounce you.
Without getting a different machine, the best solution would be an investment in a good set of Over The Tire tracks. If you put a good heavy set on, it will add a lot of weight down low and won't even feel like the same machine. Pushing power will also be greatly increased due to the added traction.
If either of these solutions aren't an option and you are nervous about the grade, then do like Taz said and get your ass end facing uphill and go slow. Better safe than sorry.
I am following your discussion on tipping over. I am a new bobcat 773 turbo owner and new to the art of operating it. I am wondering also on how steep of a hill you can go up and down. I am looking at a 45 to 55 degree (guess) hill probably 100 feet or so. I think it is safe but not sure. What scares me is that if I get down, can I get back up? I have steel tracks and it helps, but it is still a scare to look down the hill.
 

skidsteer.ca

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Joined
Jan 20, 2006
Messages
3,853
I am following your discussion on tipping over. I am a new bobcat 773 turbo owner and new to the art of operating it. I am wondering also on how steep of a hill you can go up and down. I am looking at a 45 to 55 degree (guess) hill probably 100 feet or so. I think it is safe but not sure. What scares me is that if I get down, can I get back up? I have steel tracks and it helps, but it is still a scare to look down the hill.
Take your level the longer the better and measure the slope.
ie
2 ft long level, set on end on the hill hold the other end so it level. Measure down to the hill at the airborn end, if its 24” down its a 45 degree slope. Figure your slope out
30 to 35 degrees is pretty much the limit for a skilled operator, and for engine oil pickup.
Be prepared to have someone pull you back up if you get stuck, because the more you spin the more in trouble you will get.
Ken
 

kelly_b

Active member
Joined
Nov 14, 2007
Messages
31
I agree with what one of the posters said by keeping the loader uphill. Also avoid driving parallel to the slant as I find that makes it the most unstable.
 

TriHonu

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Joined
Apr 15, 2007
Messages
484
Sometimes you can widen the stance of the machine by taking off the wheels and turning the rims around. Look at your rims and see if the rims are inset. If you have the inset rims you may be able to spin them and outset the tires.
I had a set of inset rims and was surprised how tippy it felt side to side. I switched them out for a different set of rims and a wider bucket. My butt tells me the machine is much more stable especially on uneven ground.
 

siduramaxde

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Joined
Nov 15, 2005
Messages
362
Sometimes you can widen the stance of the machine by taking off the wheels and turning the rims around. Look at your rims and see if the rims are inset. If you have the inset rims you may be able to spin them and outset the tires.
I had a set of inset rims and was surprised how tippy it felt side to side. I switched them out for a different set of rims and a wider bucket. My butt tells me the machine is much more stable especially on uneven ground.
My “backside meter” is what I go by. I also never risk putting myself in a situation that could be trouble. I just finished a job where the customer asked me to do some work down a steep hill and I told them I would do the work but if I could not get the machine back up the slope they would be responsible for an expensive tow bill. The customer then said “don't worry about the work at the bottom of the hill. Tow bills can eat profits up in a hurry.
 
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