Electrical - seatbelt and parking brake keep toggling on and off during operation

[glamont]

Hi all, I read the few posts about electrical and seat belt wiring, but I don't think my issue was discussed in any of those threads. Anyway, Here's what's happening: I recently bought a (2002) John Deere 240 with just under 2200 hours on the hobbs meter (if the meter that measures time is called the same thing as in air planes, but honestly I don't know). I gave it it's first "work out yesterday and noticed something that can be considered anywhere from annoying to frustrating. While I was operating it, the parking brake light would suddenly go on and it would stop and make grinding noises. If I moved the controls to a neutral position, the grinding would stop, then I needed to press the parking brake switch back off (sometimes I needed to press it on and off again) then it would seem to work again. A few times the seat belt light came on as if the seat belt wasn't being used, but it was. The way I got around that was to tap the panel and the light would go off and I could work again. My question is, first off has anyone seen this behavior before? Second, I'm thinking it's more of a lose wire than a short, but it could be either or both (since both indicators are acting funny); If I remove the panel to inspect the wiring, would it be straight forward to identify goes to specific accessories or will I need to trace them? Also, does that panel come off and on pretty easily or are there going to be "tricks" to it? Oh, I also read a thread talking about changing out all of the fluids when they bought new equipment, so I'll be attempting to get that done too. I'll go back and read more on that thread. I also read a post where someone has a mechanic manual (900+ pages PDF) for the 2001 model and I'm thinking that it should be the same for 2000 - 2005; What's the cost to get a copy? No owner's manuals came with the unit. Thanks, Gary

 

[farmshop]

probably bad sensor in the seat belt. Had to replace the belt in our 250 several times. I would think you could jump the switch to test it. The panel is removable but it is sealed with connectors hooked to it. THe dashes in those skidsteers do fail as most components ground through them. I think there is also a sensor on the seat bar also.

 

[glamont]

probably bad sensor in the seat belt. Had to replace the belt in our 250 several times. I would think you could jump the switch to test it. The panel is removable but it is sealed with connectors hooked to it. THe dashes in those skidsteers do fail as most components ground through them. I think there is also a sensor on the seat bar also.

Thanks for the information farmshop. This leads me to even more questions though. Would the sensors for both the seat belt and the parking brake be bad or are the two connected somehow? Since they both toggle, the parking brake more than the seat belt, I thought it was wiring related.

 

[farmshop]

Thanks for the information farmshop. This leads me to even more questions though. Would the sensors for both the seat belt and the parking brake be bad or are the two connected somehow? Since they both toggle, the parking brake more than the seat belt, I thought it was wiring related.

seat belt needs to be engaged to release parking brake. and If I remember right every time you undo the seat belt you have to push the button to unlock the parking brake. You should be able to unplug the connector for the seat belt beside the seat and then put a jumper wire in between the 2 wires on the machine side of the connection to check the sensor. Dont remember if there is a safty switch on the seat it self or not. On most machines these safety switches are in series so if 1 part doesnt work non will

 

[glamont]

I believe I fixed this issue. I took the panel off and found a lose black wire attached with lose electrical tape on the back of the parking brake switch. I removed the electrical tape, removed some of the plastic covering from the wire and reattached it. Haven't had a problem since. On a side note, the fuel indicator was working after I put everything back together, but a few hours later I noticed that it stopped working; It went from indicating 1/4 tank to empty. No fuel leaks found and the skid steer still operated.

 

[farmshop]

I believe I fixed this issue. I took the panel off and found a lose black wire attached with lose electrical tape on the back of the parking brake switch. I removed the electrical tape, removed some of the plastic covering from the wire and reattached it. Haven't had a problem since. On a side note, the fuel indicator was working after I put everything back together, but a few hours later I noticed that it stopped working; It went from indicating 1/4 tank to empty. No fuel leaks found and the skid steer still operated.

The electrical on these skid steers is a pain and troublesome. I would open up the dash again to be sure there isn't more loose wires. You can also check the sender buy unhooking the wire going to it and grounding it buy grounding and ungrounding it it should move the needle if not than you may have a wiring or display problem

 

[glamont]

The electrical on these skid steers is a pain and troublesome. I would open up the dash again to be sure there isn't more loose wires. You can also check the sender buy unhooking the wire going to it and grounding it buy grounding and ungrounding it it should move the needle if not than you may have a wiring or display problem

Hello again and thanks for the replies farmshop. Well, I haven't had a chance to open up the panel again to check on the fuel gauge wires because I seem to have even worse problems. I turn the key and nothing. I tried cleaning the battery cables and posts, and charging the battery, but still nothing. This could all be related with the gauge not working and the unit not starting; i.e. the wiring... Is there a lemon law for used skid steers? I have had nothing but problems with this thing and I've only had it a little over a month and put about 7 hours on it. I'm really frustrated at this point. :-(

 

[farmshop]

Hello again and thanks for the replies farmshop. Well, I haven't had a chance to open up the panel again to check on the fuel gauge wires because I seem to have even worse problems. I turn the key and nothing. I tried cleaning the battery cables and posts, and charging the battery, but still nothing. This could all be related with the gauge not working and the unit not starting; i.e. the wiring... Is there a lemon law for used skid steers? I have had nothing but problems with this thing and I've only had it a little over a month and put about 7 hours on it. I'm really frustrated at this point. :-(

Dont know of a lemon law on used stuff. Most is sold as is where is. Did you buy from a dealer or third party. Hopefully a dealer with a little ethics. I would call who you bought it from and see what they say. This vintage deere skid steer is a electrical night mare way too many things tied to way too few of fuses. We bought our 250 thinking we were buying the same reliability as the john deere tractors. We had lots of warranty work done and a lot of work after warranty. Luckily our dealer helped us some but we fixed alot ourselves.

 

[Bobcatdan]

Dont know of a lemon law on used stuff. Most is sold as is where is. Did you buy from a dealer or third party. Hopefully a dealer with a little ethics. I would call who you bought it from and see what they say. This vintage deere skid steer is a electrical night mare way too many things tied to way too few of fuses. We bought our 250 thinking we were buying the same reliability as the john deere tractors. We had lots of warranty work done and a lot of work after warranty. Luckily our dealer helped us some but we fixed alot ourselves.

Not sound like a prick, but saying 200 something on the side of unit should have been enough of a warning. Those were the first skidsteer Deere ever made themselves. Sadly, they are junk. 300 series are better, but the engines are debatable reliability at best. From there the D series are a laughable joke.

 

[farmshop]

Not sound like a prick, but saying 200 something on the side of unit should have been enough of a warning. Those were the first skidsteer Deere ever made themselves. Sadly, they are junk. 300 series are better, but the engines are debatable reliability at best. From there the D series are a laughable joke.

That is why we have bought 5 loaders since the 250 and not one has been another deere. Our 250's engine was about the only thing that was decent. We went through 3 sets of hyd pumps countless hyd hoses, elctrical shorts a fuel tank 2 quick tatches. a few hhyd cylinders etc all in 5000 hrs. Pissed of the deere dealer when the 300 series came out he wanted us to demo the new "awesome" loaders I asked hime if they started selling bobcats.

 

[Bobcatdan]

That is why we have bought 5 loaders since the 250 and not one has been another deere. Our 250's engine was about the only thing that was decent. We went through 3 sets of hyd pumps countless hyd hoses, elctrical shorts a fuel tank 2 quick tatches. a few hhyd cylinders etc all in 5000 hrs. Pissed of the deere dealer when the 300 series came out he wanted us to demo the new "awesome" loaders I asked hime if they started selling bobcats.

Its kinda sad because to me, there is a lot to like about the Deere's. I like how you sit down in them and the nice view of the bucket. Also the 40/60 weight difference makes them very surefooted. From an operatior standpoint, they were nice machines. They simply didn't hold up. When I was a Deere tech, if one came in with more then a 1,000 hours, it was always a clapped out pile of junk. It kinda surprising we have one at work that does nothing but run a breaker and at 3,000 hours its still going. Granted its had two hydrostats, both drive motors, two sets of arms and completely rewired. Next project is going to be doing the steering, it is a miserable thing to drive right now. The 300 series was far more reliable in my book except the engines. Both the 2.4 and 3.0L had injector pump issues that could easily doom the whole engine. I think many updates later, that was solved so all you had to do was water pumps fairly regularly.

 

[glamont]

Its kinda sad because to me, there is a lot to like about the Deere's. I like how you sit down in them and the nice view of the bucket. Also the 40/60 weight difference makes them very surefooted. From an operatior standpoint, they were nice machines. They simply didn't hold up. When I was a Deere tech, if one came in with more then a 1,000 hours, it was always a clapped out pile of junk. It kinda surprising we have one at work that does nothing but run a breaker and at 3,000 hours its still going. Granted its had two hydrostats, both drive motors, two sets of arms and completely rewired. Next project is going to be doing the steering, it is a miserable thing to drive right now. The 300 series was far more reliable in my book except the engines. Both the 2.4 and 3.0L had injector pump issues that could easily doom the whole engine. I think many updates later, that was solved so all you had to do was water pumps fairly regularly.

Hind sight is 20/20. Thanks for the responses. I called the person I bought it from (although I found it on Craig's list, he is a dealer). He did give me some ideas, but what I believe it is; is the battery. I got a meter and put it on the battery and it read 0.0; Just to make sure it was working I put the meter on my car battery and it read 12.0. Also, I put a jumper box on it and all the lights lit up like a Christmas tree and it started right up. Here is my next question: To take out the battery what I found said to remove an over flow tank above the battery, but no instructions on how to remove it. I can't see any screws or bolts so I'm thinking it slides into the bracket, but I don't want to pry it out and break it if that's not the case. Thanks again.

 

[Bobcatdan]

Hind sight is 20/20. Thanks for the responses. I called the person I bought it from (although I found it on Craig's list, he is a dealer). He did give me some ideas, but what I believe it is; is the battery. I got a meter and put it on the battery and it read 0.0; Just to make sure it was working I put the meter on my car battery and it read 12.0. Also, I put a jumper box on it and all the lights lit up like a Christmas tree and it started right up. Here is my next question: To take out the battery what I found said to remove an over flow tank above the battery, but no instructions on how to remove it. I can't see any screws or bolts so I'm thinking it slides into the bracket, but I don't want to pry it out and break it if that's not the case. Thanks again.

Just lift the boom arms up and pull it out. The overflow just sits in notches so it should just pull out.

 

[farmshop]

Just lift the boom arms up and pull it out. The overflow just sits in notches so it should just pull out.

As long as it starts if you raise the boom its not too bad. Had to do one that wouldn't start not fun. Had to jack up the boom. Even after the replacing the battery check the charging system make sure you have the proper voltage while running between 13 and 14 volts.

 

[Bobcatdan]

As long as it starts if you raise the boom its not too bad. Had to do one that wouldn't start not fun. Had to jack up the boom. Even after the replacing the battery check the charging system make sure you have the proper voltage while running between 13 and 14 volts.

One trick I found on Deere's. They can be very stubborn to jump. Replacing the battery with the boom down is pretty much impossible. The cables are long enough to reach outside of the machine. Set the new battery on a block of wood and connect it. Start the unit, raise the arms and swap batteries.

 

[glamont]

One trick I found on Deere's. They can be very stubborn to jump. Replacing the battery with the boom down is pretty much impossible. The cables are long enough to reach outside of the machine. Set the new battery on a block of wood and connect it. Start the unit, raise the arms and swap batteries.

Thanks again for all of the replies and tips; Being a new skid steer owner I can use all the help I can get. Update: Once it started, using the jumper box, I took the bucket off and I raised the arms out of the way; there is a lot more room to work with them out of the way. I was able to get the battery out, but in addition to taking the overflow tank out, I needed to remove the negative ground wire bolt and the bolt holding the strap for the hydraulic fluid filler hose. I took the battery to an auto parts store and it had 1.5 volts; After a little charging they were able to test it and determined that it will hold a charge. After it's fully charged I'm going to need to test the charging system to see if I can determine if the problem is there or a short someplace causing the discharge. My plan was to take the negative battery cable off when it's not in use so that it doesn't discharge while sitting... any thoughts on that? Cheers, Gary

 

[farmshop]

Thanks again for all of the replies and tips; Being a new skid steer owner I can use all the help I can get. Update: Once it started, using the jumper box, I took the bucket off and I raised the arms out of the way; there is a lot more room to work with them out of the way. I was able to get the battery out, but in addition to taking the overflow tank out, I needed to remove the negative ground wire bolt and the bolt holding the strap for the hydraulic fluid filler hose. I took the battery to an auto parts store and it had 1.5 volts; After a little charging they were able to test it and determined that it will hold a charge. After it's fully charged I'm going to need to test the charging system to see if I can determine if the problem is there or a short someplace causing the discharge. My plan was to take the negative battery cable off when it's not in use so that it doesn't discharge while sitting... any thoughts on that? Cheers, Gary

Yes cable off is a good idea a simple test for a draw on the battery is touching the post to the battery and watch for a arc the bigger the draw the bigger the arc not fool proof but works a fair amount of the time. If all else fails you could add a master disconnect switch so you dont have to unhook the cable.