Case 1835b Runs good but no Hydros at all

[jokerace31]

Hi guys I just picked up a Case 1835b that runs fine but all Hydraulics are dead. I also picked up the manuals for the machine they have great info on rebuilding everything but the trouble shooting not so helpful! I had the machine transported to a buddies house and we tore it down to dive in and see if we can fix ourselves. I got the machine cheap and my thought on that was I could recover my money from parts if needed I have been reading allot but it seems there is not much on this topic! I have learned some possibilities that it could possibly be a Hydraulic fuse, u joint shaft that looks to be intact, pump,spline shaft, Gonna go today and get it off the ground and charge the battery. Meanwhile I was hoping to get idea's or answer's from you wise and fine Gentlemen like the location of this said Hydro fuse and any other helpful info, TIA

 

[Tazza]

I don't believe there is a hydraulic fuse, i'd start by ensuring that the linkage between the pump and engine is intact. Make sure when the engine turns that the shaft on the pump turns too.
I know on bobcat machines there are shafts inside the pump that can break if the hydraulic pump was to lock up.

 

[jokerace31]

I don't believe there is a hydraulic fuse, i'd start by ensuring that the linkage between the pump and engine is intact. Make sure when the engine turns that the shaft on the pump turns too.
I know on bobcat machines there are shafts inside the pump that can break if the hydraulic pump was to lock up.

First off thank you for reply! I will be going today to check everything on machine I have already tore it down for clear vision on almost everything. I am pretty sure the Case has same shaft the guy I purchased from said it could be the pump or spline shaft or valve stuck and in researching that is where I came up with this Hydraulic fuse from what I understand it is like a mechanical fuse of sorts that is designed to protect the system not sure I have it either but thought it could be a possibility. I will try and update this evening or in the morning on my way to get dirty lol Thanks again!

 

[jokerace31]

First off thank you for reply! I will be going today to check everything on machine I have already tore it down for clear vision on almost everything. I am pretty sure the Case has same shaft the guy I purchased from said it could be the pump or spline shaft or valve stuck and in researching that is where I came up with this Hydraulic fuse from what I understand it is like a mechanical fuse of sorts that is designed to protect the system not sure I have it either but thought it could be a possibility. I will try and update this evening or in the morning on my way to get dirty lol Thanks again!

Ok went yesterday and did not have much luck figuring out anything other than the fact I am now researching starting issues. Ignition was already shot so I ordered a new one but I think I got a bad ground somewhere I had my test light out checking some contacts and the light tip touched the frame and lit up so I need to locate all grounds and clean them up. I also read that they are using a second solenoid on these something to do with low current through the harness??? Not sure if you are familiar with that issue or not but I will continue to try and figure this out any and all help is very appreciated. Thanks again!

 

[jokerace31]

Ok went yesterday and did not have much luck figuring out anything other than the fact I am now researching starting issues. Ignition was already shot so I ordered a new one but I think I got a bad ground somewhere I had my test light out checking some contacts and the light tip touched the frame and lit up so I need to locate all grounds and clean them up. I also read that they are using a second solenoid on these something to do with low current through the harness??? Not sure if you are familiar with that issue or not but I will continue to try and figure this out any and all help is very appreciated. Thanks again!

Also I have the machine up on stands and when I was able to turn the engine over the wheels where turning as well not sure if that helps at all just wanted to add that.

 

[Tazza]

Also I have the machine up on stands and when I was able to turn the engine over the wheels where turning as well not sure if that helps at all just wanted to add that.

If the wheels turn when the motor runs, it sounds like the pump is moving.
Can you rekove the hydraulic pump from the drive mump to see if the shaft that drives the hydro pump turns when the motor? The shafts you call fuses can break if something locks up. Say the hydraulic pump locks up, it will snap the shaft between the other pumps and it. Without the hydraulic pump, the drive pumps will not get enough fluid to run properly and of course, you will have no hydraulis.

 

[jokerace31]

If the wheels turn when the motor runs, it sounds like the pump is moving.
Can you rekove the hydraulic pump from the drive mump to see if the shaft that drives the hydro pump turns when the motor? The shafts you call fuses can break if something locks up. Say the hydraulic pump locks up, it will snap the shaft between the other pumps and it. Without the hydraulic pump, the drive pumps will not get enough fluid to run properly and of course, you will have no hydraulis.

Ok Tazza I got it running the wheels do slowly turn but I was able to stop them with my hand! Ujoint shaft is turning and the Twin pumps? I believe they are called anyhow they are getting warm! Now the pump on the very front seemed to stay cool. I read your reply and glad I was unable to get that far weather turned on me so hopeful to get back at it tomorrow. Really appreciate the help! Thank's

 

[jokerace31]

Ok Tazza I got it running the wheels do slowly turn but I was able to stop them with my hand! Ujoint shaft is turning and the Twin pumps? I believe they are called anyhow they are getting warm! Now the pump on the very front seemed to stay cool. I read your reply and glad I was unable to get that far weather turned on me so hopeful to get back at it tomorrow. Really appreciate the help! Thank's

Ok pulled the Hydro pump and found out the spline shaft sheared off! Not sure what caused it hydro pump turns by hand! Not sure what is involved with repairing it yet I will dig into service manual and see if it will tell me! Any and all info is greatly appreciated. Thanks

 

[Gearclash]

Ok pulled the Hydro pump and found out the spline shaft sheared off! Not sure what caused it hydro pump turns by hand! Not sure what is involved with repairing it yet I will dig into service manual and see if it will tell me! Any and all info is greatly appreciated. Thanks

If neither the ground drive nor the loader hydraulics work then the coupling between the engine and hydros has failed. If the ground drive works but not the loader hydraulics then it is a problem within the pump as there is a loader pump and a hydro charge pump in the same housing. It is possible for the shaft between the two hydro pumps to fail as well. IF the charge pump is not turning the hydros may work but will be very weak. Which engine do you have? Seems the diesels have a problem with excessive voltage drop on the crank circuit. If you have to replace the drive coupling do not follow the manual. Their procedure is ridiculously complicated.

 

[Gearclash]

If neither the ground drive nor the loader hydraulics work then the coupling between the engine and hydros has failed. If the ground drive works but not the loader hydraulics then it is a problem within the pump as there is a loader pump and a hydro charge pump in the same housing. It is possible for the shaft between the two hydro pumps to fail as well. IF the charge pump is not turning the hydros may work but will be very weak. Which engine do you have? Seems the diesels have a problem with excessive voltage drop on the crank circuit. If you have to replace the drive coupling do not follow the manual. Their procedure is ridiculously complicated.

Do you have an OEM service manual? If not I do and can help you out as time permits.

 

[jokerace31]

Do you have an OEM service manual? If not I do and can help you out as time permits.

Ok Gearclash what I have found so far is while running the the L and R side drive pumps get warm hydro pump on front was cold I pulled the Hydro pump and the coupler came right with it and the tip of the spline shaft was in the coupler. I just ordered the spline shaft off Ebay! Now I am fairly mechanically inclined and the only Hydraulic experience I have is installing brand new never internally! I was able to turn the Hydro pump by hand and I know that shaft broke for a reason. ?? I guess not real sure I did call a shop but then I read at the end of the comment about factory making it sound more complicated and here I am! lol

 

[Tazza]

Ok Gearclash what I have found so far is while running the the L and R side drive pumps get warm hydro pump on front was cold I pulled the Hydro pump and the coupler came right with it and the tip of the spline shaft was in the coupler. I just ordered the spline shaft off Ebay! Now I am fairly mechanically inclined and the only Hydraulic experience I have is installing brand new never internally! I was able to turn the Hydro pump by hand and I know that shaft broke for a reason. ?? I guess not real sure I did call a shop but then I read at the end of the comment about factory making it sound more complicated and here I am! lol

It is possible age and a hair line crack took out the shaft, but normally it is due to a pump failure locking up and it breaks the shaft. Especially when you have a vane hydraulic pump, the vanes wear, one can fall out and lock up the pump and breaks the shaft. This is the worst case though.
You will need to remove all the metal from the broken shaft from inside the pump. Steel in there is bad bad BAD. It will eat up the pumps.

 

[jokerace31]

Do you have an OEM service manual? If not I do and can help you out as time permits.

Yes it is all 3 manoals on a disk! I think I would have liked the actual manual better could not beat the price for all 3 though!

 

[Gearclash]

Yes it is all 3 manoals on a disk! I think I would have liked the actual manual better could not beat the price for all 3 though!

Is the gear hydraulic pump original? It will have yellow paint on like the rest of the machine if its is. Replacement will be blue. I would check everything out, but it is possible it was just a freak failure. We had the shaft between the two hydro pumps fail once, not sure why, or if it broke or splines stripped, but there were no other problems. That was maybe 20 years and 7,000 hours ago.

 

[Gearclash]

Is the gear hydraulic pump original? It will have yellow paint on like the rest of the machine if its is. Replacement will be blue. I would check everything out, but it is possible it was just a freak failure. We had the shaft between the two hydro pumps fail once, not sure why, or if it broke or splines stripped, but there were no other problems. That was maybe 20 years and 7,000 hours ago.

The drive coupling I was referring to it the one between the engine and the rest of the drive train. Sounds like yours is ok, but it would be a good idea to inspect it. The spiders wear out and the splines on the hydro side.

 

[jokerace31]

Is the gear hydraulic pump original? It will have yellow paint on like the rest of the machine if its is. Replacement will be blue. I would check everything out, but it is possible it was just a freak failure. We had the shaft between the two hydro pumps fail once, not sure why, or if it broke or splines stripped, but there were no other problems. That was maybe 20 years and 7,000 hours ago.

Yes it is yellow appears to be original! I will check and inspect the u joint shaft as well!

 

[jokerace31]

Yes it is yellow appears to be original! I will check and inspect the u joint shaft as well!

Ok guys I received the replacement Spline shaft! I was able to handle getting the old one out and new one in cleaned housing and air dried with compressed air and unit is back in machine. Now I am going to get new filters and try and figure out this oil situation! It calls for 10w40 with an HTO additive is there anything else I could safely use or no? Have not searched the forum yet but I am after I post this. Thanks

 

[krabill]

New to the skidsteer forum, but this thread is my exact problem. 1835B 4000 hours, yellow pump. Using it the other day I lost all hydraulics. I dont have a service manual yet, ordered one yesterday. So I took off the floor panel, removed the front pump and just like above, I could see the shaft, the coupler then a piece of the broke internal shaft still in the coupler.

So, I went on the parts diagrams and there is a left hand and a right hand tandem pump both looks similar. Do I need shaft part number N8297. or N8291? (or something different) How do I know if its a right or left tandem pump? Has anyone replaced just this internal shaft before? How bad a job is it? Of course this is a borrowed machine from a relative, now its stuck in the woods. Picture below showing the piece of broken shaft left in the coupler.

Thanks to anyone for a bit of help

 

[krabill]

Follow up for others to my previous post.

Got the machine fixed! I had to replace the left hand pump drive shaft. I ended up having to remove the entire tandem pump from the machine and take it to the shop. Took the left hand pump side off, pulled the shaft (and bearing that was stuck on) replace the shaft and bearing and put it all back together. I also replaced the hydraulic filters at the same time because they were easy to get to with everything removed from the machine. The manual says you don't have to remove the center plate where the seat sits and your control arms come through. For sure I had to remove that, there is no other way to get the tandem pump out. I used my ATV winch to hoist it out, its heavy! Also one of the large 1" hydraulic hoses was so tight I had to use map gas to get it loose, it ended up ruining that hose and I had to get a custom one made. Drove it out of the woods yesterday!

I was really concerned about this job being way over my head, it was close, but take your time, keep things clean and your parts in bags and it wasn't too bad. thank goodness it worked, have a lot of hours into this fix.

shaft on ebay 180
bearing 35
two hydraulic filters 140
Custom hose made 150
two 5 gallons buckets of case 15w40 oil 220

 

[Gearclash]

I would advise against using 15-40 oil in the hydraulic system. It is too high of viscosity. 10-40 was the oil originally specified for those machines, and we found that even that is a little too heavy for cold weather use. We have switched everything to either a 10-30 engine oil with HTO additive or a 10-30 viscosity hydraulic oil. The 10-30 engine oil is what Case specified for the 400 series and after observing too much cavitation from cold oil with the 10-40 I can see why they went to 10-30.