Case 1835B Diesel issues vs Newbie

[SomeoneSpecial88]

Hey all I'm brand new to the forum and also to skid steers in general so I'd like to preface this by saying although I'm mechanically Inclined to an extent I have zero experience with working on skid steers or heavy equipment, I've rebuilt the hydrostatic transmission in my JD lawn mower and done small stuff like that before and do work on cars as well.



Anyhow the issue: the skid steer moves forward and back and it seem both left and right sides move/drive; however, I have almost no ability to make a tight turn. I can turn right/left but the turning radius is massive and I usually have to back up and go forward to make any type of tighter turn. My father in law has a gas Case 1835b and his turns like a skid steer should you can basically turn it around on itself, mine seems incapable of making tight turns I have to back up and move forward to make a sharp turn. The pumps are groaning but from my little experience and the research I've done it seems that them being noisy is fairly normal on these case 1835b's. I will add that It almost feels like the left/right side are fighting each other when your trying to spin/turn it around.



Also when it was being used the other day out in the woods moving brush the left rear chain either came off or snapped barely got it back to the barn. I removed the cover and can clearly tell chain was the problem as it's down in the oil and not visible now. My question is does the turning issue have anything to do with the chains being too tight/loose or is the chain breaking probably unrelated to the other issue? Again I have zero experience or understanding of how these machines work so please be patient with my ignorance.



I've searched the internet high and low for people talking about poor turning radius on a skid steer and I cant find much regarding this issue except for people saying they can't turn at all or have lost drive on one side completely, machine goes in circles etc.

I do have the 4inch thick service manual but it's not really helping me in this situation.



Final question: the service manual shows the procedure for removing,installing, and adjusting the chains but nowhere in this glorious 4 inch thick book does it say what chain is to be used on these machines. What I've gleened from my research so far is that it uses #60H and 70 links for the rear and it's supposed to be endless but I can't find any endless one locally so it's gonna have to have a master link. Can anyone confirm the chain size? I'd like to be sure I'm right before I run out and purchase new roller chain. Thank you in advance for your help and your patience.

 

[foton]

well to confirm what the book says it should have and what is in it ,fish out the old chain and compare it to what the book says 60 h sounds right.

 

[SomeoneSpecial88]

The book


Well to confirm what the book says it should have and what is in it ,fish out the old chain and compare it to what the book says 60 h sounds right.h

well to confirm what the book says it should have and what is in it ,fish out the old chain and compare it to what the book says 60 h sounds right.

Thanks, the book doesn't say I went through it multiple times and there is no information or spec for the chain just the procedure for replacing it, that's why I was asking. I did try fishing the chain out with a a magnet, wire, and my hand. It was too heavy for the magnetic pickup tool, the wire didn't work I was able to get ahold of it but it would catch on the sprocket I'm guessing and wouldn't budge and my arms are too short so I couldn't even reach it just got a nice coating of oil on my hand wrist lol So I guess I'm gonna have to drain it and pull the tire etc.

The book says I have to take off the rops cage, disconnect a bunch of stuff jack it up pull the tire, drain it, remove the axle, open the cover on the side and remove a sprocket? Seems like a lot for a chain but I'm guess guessing if it's supposed to be endless that's why, gonna guess I can cut out some of that since my chain won't be endless, as I said I've never worked on these at all. I'm also not sure why they have the tops cage removal as part of it, doesn't seem like it would interfere with changing it even if it was an endless chain going back on.

 

[LeoB]

Based on my farm machinery experience and some very limited skid steer experience, let me offer this:
1. 60H is #60 roller chain, the "H" is heavy duty.

2. There are cheap roller chains and much better roller chains. Some roller chains have o-rings in them to help hold lubricants in the roller section of the chain. I don't know if Case uses chains with o-rings... See if Case or a Case manual can give you a spec on the tensile strength of their drive chains. Again, cheaper chains will have a lower tensile strength.

3. I have never had an issue with inserting a master link, sometimes called a connector link to adjust the length of a roller chain. So, I would not worry about "endless".

4. You will need (read really, really want) a chain breaker tool to allow you to adjust the number of links in your chain. Best $20 bucks you'll spend for chain work. The chain breaker pushes out the roller pins so you can remove one or more links as needed. Depending on the number of links of chain you need, you may need to buy two 10 foot lengths of chain or perhaps a roll of chain.

5. See these Amazon links for some ideas:

Amazon product ASIN B085HK2558
Amazon product ASIN B07W8PJTJH
Amazon product ASIN B0CHG5XMBH
6. Lastly - Based on my LIMITED skid loader experience with MY Hydra-Mac 8B, this may help you. Rise and block the side of your machine with the damaged chain. Have a helper rotate the tire with the broken chain. They must follow your instructions to turn the wheel SLOWLY and STOP when you tell them. As they turn the wheel, you may be able to guide the chain around the sprocket to remove the damaged chain. If you are not careful, extremely careful, your fingers could be crushed between the drive sprocket and damaged chain. After you get the chain out, spin the tire and see if the drive sprocket spins true. The sprocket could have been damaged with the drive chain broke.

My two cents worth,

Leo

 

[SomeoneSpecial88]

Based on my farm machinery experience and some very limited skid steer experience, let me offer this:
1. 60H is #60 roller chain, the "H" is heavy duty.

2. There are cheap roller chains and much better roller chains. Some roller chains have o-rings in them to help hold lubricants in the roller section of the chain. I don't know if Case uses chains with o-rings... See if Case or a Case manual can give you a spec on the tensile strength of their drive chains. Again, cheaper chains will have a lower tensile strength.

3. I have never had an issue with inserting a master link, sometimes called a connector link to adjust the length of a roller chain. So, I would not worry about "endless".

4. You will need (read really, really want) a chain breaker tool to allow you to adjust the number of links in your chain. Best $20 bucks you'll spend for chain work. The chain breaker pushes out the roller pins so you can remove one or more links as needed. Depending on the number of links of chain you need, you may need to buy two 10 foot lengths of chain or perhaps a roll of chain.

5. See these Amazon links for some ideas:

Amazon product ASIN B085HK2558
Amazon product ASIN B07W8PJTJH
Amazon product ASIN B0CHG5XMBH
6. Lastly - Based on my LIMITED skid loader experience with MY Hydra-Mac 8B, this may help you. Rise and block the side of your machine with the damaged chain. Have a helper rotate the tire with the broken chain. They must follow your instructions to turn the wheel SLOWLY and STOP when you tell them. As they turn the wheel, you may be able to guide the chain around the sprocket to remove the damaged chain. If you are not careful, extremely careful, your fingers could be crushed between the drive sprocket and damaged chain. After you get the chain out, spin the tire and see if the drive sprocket spins true. The sprocket could have been damaged with the drive chain broke.

My two cents worth,

Leo

Thank you so much for all your help, hopefully I'll have some time tomorrow afternoon to look at it better/work on it.

 

[SomeoneSpecial88]

Well, last night I was able to successfully get the chain replaced on the skid steer and got the deflection adjusted. Thanks for input and suggestions and yes the chain breaker tool was well worth it. I'm still having the issue with the skid steer not making tight turns. It just feels like the controls are literally fighting eachother and it just be wont turn tight at all. I have to back up to make and pull.forward multiple times to turn. I know this is not how.it should be but I'm not sure what to look at, both sides "drive" but it just doesn't turn either direction you just get lots of noise and resistance. Maybe the guy I bought it from reversed lines somewhere? Could that cause something like this?

 

[brdgbldr]

Well, last night I was able to successfully get the chain replaced on the skid steer and got the deflection adjusted. Thanks for input and suggestions and yes the chain breaker tool was well worth it. I'm still having the issue with the skid steer not making tight turns. It just feels like the controls are literally fighting eachother and it just be wont turn tight at all. I have to back up to make and pull.forward multiple times to turn. I know this is not how.it should be but I'm not sure what to look at, both sides "drive" but it just doesn't turn either direction you just get lots of noise and resistance. Maybe the guy I bought it from reversed lines somewhere? Could that cause something like this?

I just saw a video of a Bobcat that was doing the same thing. They tried everything and as a last resort replaced the hydrostatic drive with a rebuilt one. While the problem got a little better it was still there.

They finally took it to a Bobcat mechanic and he was able to find a brand new old stock pump and that fixed the problem.

Hopefully this is not the case with your machine. ( Just noticed that I made a "Case" pun ).

 

[LeoB]

As to not wanting to turn, I'll offer another two cents worth...
1. I assume there this a hydro-static motor that drives the left side and there is one for the right side.
2. I assume that you have a left hand and right hand control levers. Or you have mechanical controls of some sort going to a value body that supplies hydraulic pressure to move the left or right side.
3. I assume that your drive system uses a hydro-static motor with two lines going to them. Depending on what you want that motor to do, control values route pressure to one side of the motor or the other to cause it to drive one way or the other. (My Hydra-Mac has belt driven pumps/motor units on each side with control lever. Pushing or pulling the lever determines if that side moves forward or backward.)

Assuming that....

A. I'd jack the machine up and block it. So the tires or tracks are off the ground completely and there is no chance the machine can fall off the blocks.
B. Using the steps below, I'm trying to see how your drive train behaves with "no load" on it. These steps may help you determine which side "is complaining" via noise or perhaps with visual indications. With someone controlling the machine and someone watching the tires/tracks, do the following:

C. Use your controls to simulate moving straight forward and/or straight backwards. Start our slow and then increase speed. Are the wheels/tracks moving at the same speed?
- I'm going to assume your answer is yes.
- Did you hear/see anything unusual from either side of your machine?

D. Now simulate a gradual turn to the left or right while moving forward. When turning left, the RIGHT side has to move faster. Same for turning right, the LEFT side has to move faster. Is that happening?
- Again, do you see or hear anything unusual for either drive side of your machine?

E. Now simulate a hard turn to the left or right while moving forward. This would be a turn like you'd want to make if turning a 90 degree turn in tight spaces. During a "tight" turn, does one side go forward and the other side drive backwards or at the very least drive forward very slowly?
- Again, do you see or hear anything usual?

F. Repeat steps C, D and E only going in reverse.

My two cents worth,

Leo

 

[LeoB]

As to not wanting to turn, I'll offer another two cents worth...
1. I assume there this a hydro-static motor that drives the left side and there is one for the right side.
2. I assume that you have a left hand and right hand control levers. Or you have mechanical controls of some sort going to a value body that supplies hydraulic pressure to move the left or right side.
3. I assume that your drive system uses a hydro-static motor with two lines going to them. Depending on what you want that motor to do, control values route pressure to one side of the motor or the other to cause it to drive one way or the other. (My Hydra-Mac has belt driven pumps/motor units on each side with control lever. Pushing or pulling the lever determines if that side moves forward or backward.)

Assuming that....

A. I'd jack the machine up and block it. So the tires or tracks are off the ground completely and there is no chance the machine can fall off the blocks.
B. Using the steps below, I'm trying to see how your drive train behaves with "no load" on it. These steps may help you determine which side "is complaining" via noise or perhaps with visual indications. With someone controlling the machine and someone watching the tires/tracks, do the following:
C. Use your controls to simulate moving straight forward and/or straight backwards. Start our slow and then increase speed. Are the wheels/tracks moving at the same speed?
- I'm going to assume your answer is yes.
- Did you hear/see anything unusual from either side of your machine?
D. Now simulate a gradual turn to the left or right while moving forward. When turning left, the RIGHT side has to move faster. Same for turning right, the LEFT side has to move faster. Is that happening?
- Again, do you see or hear anything unusual for either drive side of your machine?
E. Now simulate a hard turn to the left or right while moving forward. This would be a turn like you'd want to make if turning a 90 degree turn in tight spaces. During a "tight" turn, does one side go forward and the other side drive backwards or at the very least drive forward very slowly?
- Again, do you see or hear anything usual?

F. Repeat steps C, D and E only going in reverse.

My two cents worth,

Leo

 

[Gearclash]

Yes the drive chains on the 1835B are 60H. Diesels tend to be harder on chains and I would recommend only Diamond brand replacement chains on them. Never ever over tighten drive chains. They will snap if they run tight as the sprockets are not perfectly concentric. OEM chains are endless but I have had zero master link failures on replacements that I have installed. Any time a chain broke it was somewhere other than the master link. Do not run fewer than the factory number of pins if the chain won't tighten adequately. If the axles are out of adjustment travel but the chains are still loose it is time to chuck the chains and install new ones.

Does this machine turn equally poorly in both directions or just one direction? If the loader hydraulics are working properly it would indicate that the problem is either a hydro relief valve(s) blowing open much too soon or a hydro problem or a drive motor problem. Those machines should zero turn on dry concrete with no problem at all other than lug the engine down and wear the tires off.

 

[Jim A]

Check charge pressure while turning both ways see if it drops off in one direction that has issue . Then check pressure to left drive motor which turns machine right under load compare to other drive motor.
I often had to drill tap 1/8" pipe plug into thick elbow or connector to tap pressure lines to check . Then plug hole with steel pipe plug .
Often many machines have no test ports .
Check suction screen return filter and main hydraulic tank for metal filing , bronze chips silver gold dust in oil which show one pump or drive motor may be damaged .
Good luck

 

[SomeoneSpecial88]

Thank you all for the suggestions and replies. I'm going to try some of these things as soon as I get some free time and I'll make an update with my findings. Really appreciate all the input.

 

[SomeoneSpecial88]

Update: After fixing the broken chain, it seems to be a little bit better, I do however need to check/adjust the other side. I haven't gotten there yet due to the fact that my bucket tilt cylinders started leaking like sieves so I'm currently rebuilding the cylinders. Will update again if I figure out anything else.

 

[Gearclash]

No surprise that the cylinders leak. The original seals are aging out on those machines and leaking regardless of the hours. I've done all 4 cylinders on both of my 1835Bs and one has upwards of 10K hours more than the other.

 

[JoeCamel]

Hey all I'm brand new to the forum and also to skid steers in general so I'd like to preface this by saying although I'm mechanically Inclined to an extent I have zero experience with working on skid steers or heavy equipment, I've rebuilt the hydrostatic transmission in my JD lawn mower and done small stuff like that before and do work on cars as well.



Anyhow the issue: the skid steer moves forward and back and it seem both left and right sides move/drive; however, I have almost no ability to make a tight turn. I can turn right/left but the turning radius is massive and I usually have to back up and go forward to make any type of tighter turn. My father in law has a gas Case 1835b and his turns like a skid steer should you can basically turn it around on itself, mine seems incapable of making tight turns I have to back up and move forward to make a sharp turn. The pumps are groaning but from my little experience and the research I've done it seems that them being noisy is fairly normal on these case 1835b's. I will add that It almost feels like the left/right side are fighting each other when your trying to spin/turn it around.



Also when it was being used the other day out in the woods moving brush the left rear chain either came off or snapped barely got it back to the barn. I removed the cover and can clearly tell chain was the problem as it's down in the oil and not visible now. My question is does the turning issue have anything to do with the chains being too tight/loose or is the chain breaking probably unrelated to the other issue? Again I have zero experience or understanding of how these machines work so please be patient with my ignorance.



I've searched the internet high and low for people talking about poor turning radius on a skid steer and I cant find much regarding this issue except for people saying they can't turn at all or have lost drive on one side completely, machine goes in circles etc.

I do have the 4inch thick service manual but it's not really helping me in this situation.



Final question: the service manual shows the procedure for removing,installing, and adjusting the chains but nowhere in this glorious 4 inch thick book does it say what chain is to be used on these machines. What I've gleened from my research so far is that it uses #60H and 70 links for the rear and it's supposed to be endless but I can't find any endless one locally so it's gonna have to have a master link. Can anyone confirm the chain size? I'd like to be sure I'm right before I run out and purchase new roller chain. Thank you in advance for your help and your patience.

Just a suggestion, the parts manual will often describe the part such as diameter, pitch and length of a bolt or in your case what the chain is.

 

[SomeoneSpecial88]

Just a suggestion, the parts manual will often describe the part such as diameter, pitch and length of a bolt or in your case what the chain is.

I do have the service manual, but I'll have to see if I can find the parts manual since it sounds like that would be beneficial for those situations, Thanks!

On another note now that I rebuilt the tilt cylinders it started twice we used it no leaks so that's a plus, parked it to top off the hydro fluid after the air got put from having the cylinders off. And it's just dead no power, no lights, no clicks nothing won't start.

Started doing various troubleshooting...battery, connections etc., then continuity testing on wires etc. I think we have narrowed it down to some sort of ground issue and/or a potentially bad ignition switch...while I was i was in there digging around I discovered that someone who had this machine before replaced half of the negative battery cable the half going to the battery was good but the other half was rock hard and slightly corroded on the end and the splice job was a joke, so I made up a new negative battery cable and installed it, while it didn't solve my issues it's at least ruled out and should be good for as long as I have the machine now.

I feel like I'm going to be chasing this gremlin for a while now if a new ignition switch doesn't solve the issue. It seems as though the hack job on wiring the previous owner did is going to be a real treat to sort out. They seem to have a lot of splices and bypasses since there are missing gauge clusters that they've obviously bypassed. Wondering if it's worth/possible to find the missing gauge clusters and just rewire the whole machine the right way?

 

[Gearclash]

Is this a gas or a diesel? Do you have power at the instrument panel when you turn the key on? I ask because the 1835B diesels I've been around have all had problems with the starter solenoid not getting enough power from the factory wiring system to activate the starter. It is a combination of too small a wire gauge, too many connections, and too much amperage draw of the solenoid. Net result is enough voltage drop at the solenoid that it won't act. I've seen several different efforts to remedy the problem, both were crude but effective.

 

[SomeoneSpecial88]

It is a diesel, and there is no power at the instrument panel with the key on. There is no lights, sounds etc. It's just dead. We verified with a multimeter not power at the switch.

 

[Gearclash]

Make sure your battery connections are clean and snug. Then the next thing to check is the big connector block that is kind of in the area on the right side of the engine, kinda behind the loader spool valves. I think all the power goes through that connector, and if there is a bad connection in the supply to the key switch you would have nothing at the key. You would be able to pull that connector apart and check for power on the one half of the connector. The connector is a rectangular rubber block like deal, just floats with the harness. Uses bullet type connecters for conductors.