Bobcat BISC and BOSS system

[walio123]

I often encounter one problem. Many of the BOBCATs produced in the 1990s and the early 2000 have problems with the BISC system, not to mention the BOSS system. Often I have seen machines with completely eliminated BISC. The screens of the BOSSystem are often defective. They are quite expensive to buy. People run them with a dark screen, they hear a beep, a machine goes out and they do not know what's going on. Replacing the screen with analog devices is not an inexpensive and easy task. These people use the machines for their own purposes, use them 2-3 days a week for 2 hours, almost do not use attachments other than a bucket or pallet fork.They say they are not given so much money for these parts and it is not worth giving them for old machines. And they actually work with very dangerous machines. Imagine what can happen if you get off from a working machine and push the drive lever unintentionally without the parking brake ... or pushing with the legs left inside the boom pedal....Even here in the forum there are often questions about how to eliminate the BISC.That's why I was thinking of an arduino-based controller that controls the operator's security and shows the sensor data accurately. I think it's possible to do it, it's cheap and can be a solution for many people.If there are people familiar with the arduino in this forum, any help will be appreciated.

 

[Tazza]

I don't have much experience with the actual programming side of an Arduino, but i have a projectile casting machine that is automated with an Arduino for timing operations.
Honestly, i don't feel fully comfortable with using one of these for safety controls. It has the occasional glitch. It runs off mains power, so it could be interference causing the glitches. It's possible better code could prevent any issues, but i don't know.
This is a very good idea though, it could be adjusted to accept any style of sender or safety device.

 

[walio123]

I don't have much experience with the actual programming side of an Arduino, but i have a projectile casting machine that is automated with an Arduino for timing operations.
Honestly, i don't feel fully comfortable with using one of these for safety controls. It has the occasional glitch. It runs off mains power, so it could be interference causing the glitches. It's possible better code could prevent any issues, but i don't know.
This is a very good idea though, it could be adjusted to accept any style of sender or safety device.

I'll try. I have prepared all the sensors, I will control their readings with mechanical ones and record their testimonies. My problem is with programming. I do not know if I can make a good code. I have already tried the temperature of engine cooling sensor and the engine oil pressure sensor and it is quite accurate. The indications are thought to be displayed on the 5 inch TFT display. I can show a logic diagram of a program but writing an arduino IDE is my problem. I'm good at math and logic, but programming is new to me and I do not feel comfortable. Any help will be appreciated.

 

[Tazza]

I'll try. I have prepared all the sensors, I will control their readings with mechanical ones and record their testimonies. My problem is with programming. I do not know if I can make a good code. I have already tried the temperature of engine cooling sensor and the engine oil pressure sensor and it is quite accurate. The indications are thought to be displayed on the 5 inch TFT display. I can show a logic diagram of a program but writing an arduino IDE is my problem. I'm good at math and logic, but programming is new to me and I do not feel comfortable. Any help will be appreciated.

This is going to be an awesome project for you.
I'm fine with the mechanical and electronic parts, but the code is not for me, my brother is a genius with code, so any coding i need, i ask for his help and a few clicks later, it's done.
I used a 4 x 25 i2c display i think it was, how well does the 5" tft work, and is it touch screen too?

 

[walio123]

This is going to be an awesome project for you.
I'm fine with the mechanical and electronic parts, but the code is not for me, my brother is a genius with code, so any coding i need, i ask for his help and a few clicks later, it's done.
I used a 4 x 25 i2c display i think it was, how well does the 5" tft work, and is it touch screen too?

Yes it is a touch screen. My idea is to write the temperature of the cooling system, the pressure of the engine oil, the voltage of the alternator in the form of a bar graph. For the other sensors I think there is a buzzer, and if a sensor works, a beep will be heard and the display will show which sensor has worked. Yes it is a great project for me , but it's not something unfulfilled ..... history remembers more difficult tasks

 

[walio123]

Yes it is a touch screen. My idea is to write the temperature of the cooling system, the pressure of the engine oil, the voltage of the alternator in the form of a bar graph. For the other sensors I think there is a buzzer, and if a sensor works, a beep will be heard and the display will show which sensor has worked. Yes it is a great project for me , but it's not something unfulfilled ..... history remembers more difficult tasks

A little update. I already have a working model that shows raw data from the sensors. It will probably take a long time to display this data in graphical form, but I think I put a controller on one of my 753 G and run at least a 500-hour test to check if it works properly. I will record the readings of the sensors on the SD card and analyze them ..... a lot of work, but during the long winter nights I will find 1 = 2 hours a day for that.

 

[Tazza]

A little update. I already have a working model that shows raw data from the sensors. It will probably take a long time to display this data in graphical form, but I think I put a controller on one of my 753 G and run at least a 500-hour test to check if it works properly. I will record the readings of the sensors on the SD card and analyze them ..... a lot of work, but during the long winter nights I will find 1 = 2 hours a day for that.

Glad you have it working, as long as you have the data, the graphics can't be too hard to display, even ebtter if you can get it to average it over say 5-10 seconds, or else you may get flickering levels on your fuel when going over bumps.
I'd like to hear how it goes for reliability, you may need to shield the arduino, or even the sender wires to prevent any possible glitches.
Keep us updated.

 

[walio123]

Glad you have it working, as long as you have the data, the graphics can't be too hard to display, even ebtter if you can get it to average it over say 5-10 seconds, or else you may get flickering levels on your fuel when going over bumps.
I'd like to hear how it goes for reliability, you may need to shield the arduino, or even the sender wires to prevent any possible glitches.
Keep us updated.

So far things are going in the right direction. I have used the arduino mega, now I have added aurduino nano to give me enough memory and computing power. Work as master and slave, nano is only for the screen. I got the graphical representation, the sensor data is constantly accepted but updated on the screen in 30 sec. If one of the sensors goes out of range, the engine is shuting off, showing which sensor has worked on the screen.. I simulated damage /high coolant temperature, low charge pressure,llifted seat bar and so on/ to all the sensors one by one and it works great.How reliable is all this ... I do not know, time will show.

 

[walio123]

So far things are going in the right direction. I have used the arduino mega, now I have added aurduino nano to give me enough memory and computing power. Work as master and slave, nano is only for the screen. I got the graphical representation, the sensor data is constantly accepted but updated on the screen in 30 sec. If one of the sensors goes out of range, the engine is shuting off, showing which sensor has worked on the screen.. I simulated damage /high coolant temperature, low charge pressure,llifted seat bar and so on/ to all the sensors one by one and it works great.How reliable is all this ... I do not know, time will show.

It turns out that a nice and quality connector with many pins is rather expensive, more expensive than the screen However, it is much cheaper than buying a controller or a boss screen. Otherwise everything is working. I just wonder if it's a good idea to share the arduino code and the wiring diagram ... It's about the security of the operator and the machine. If anything happens ... I will feel very guilty. So far I will continue with the tests.

 

[Tazza]

It turns out that a nice and quality connector with many pins is rather expensive, more expensive than the screen However, it is much cheaper than buying a controller or a boss screen. Otherwise everything is working. I just wonder if it's a good idea to share the arduino code and the wiring diagram ... It's about the security of the operator and the machine. If anything happens ... I will feel very guilty. So far I will continue with the tests.

I'd be interested in the details, i like the idea of susing 2 arduinos, saves potential issues, as the issues i was having with mine in an industial setting, i believe was the I2C that was used for the display.
I understand your safety concerns, but when an owner takes out the factory gear, they know they are disabling safeties.
The Boss system really just locked the lift/tilt didn't it? I don't remember if the park brake was included or not. The lift and tilt was a mechanical lock on some too.

 

[walio123]

I'd be interested in the details, i like the idea of susing 2 arduinos, saves potential issues, as the issues i was having with mine in an industial setting, i believe was the I2C that was used for the display.
I understand your safety concerns, but when an owner takes out the factory gear, they know they are disabling safeties.
The Boss system really just locked the lift/tilt didn't it? I don't remember if the park brake was included or not. The lift and tilt was a mechanical lock on some too.

The BOSS system controls the parking brake. BOSS-equipped machines are quite old and use mechanical pedal locks. My problem is different. I can not communicate with the main machine controllers. They use encrypted at high-level CANBUS. So, I have to shut them down completely and leave control of everything to Adruino. For the little time I run the test, I encountered the problems that are not caused by Arduino but by bad programming code. I'm not good at programming, but I still have some success. It worries me how long it will work and how reliable they are.

 

[Tazza]

The BOSS system controls the parking brake. BOSS-equipped machines are quite old and use mechanical pedal locks. My problem is different. I can not communicate with the main machine controllers. They use encrypted at high-level CANBUS. So, I have to shut them down completely and leave control of everything to Adruino. For the little time I run the test, I encountered the problems that are not caused by Arduino but by bad programming code. I'm not good at programming, but I still have some success. It worries me how long it will work and how reliable they are.

I guess that is why they do lots of testing in the real world to me sure their code is right, the good thing is, if something does go wrong, you have the abilities to alter the code at any time.
I can't see why you can't get it all to work with your arduino. You mention that the system us ising canbus, but if you are replacing the computer with an arduino, you don't need this protocol anymore. This doesn't work if you are still trying to interface with the original aux hydraulic control though, but if you can work out the voltage they run at, you can use mosfets to switch them on and off, same with the park brake.

 

[walio123]

I guess that is why they do lots of testing in the real world to me sure their code is right, the good thing is, if something does go wrong, you have the abilities to alter the code at any time.
I can't see why you can't get it all to work with your arduino. You mention that the system us ising canbus, but if you are replacing the computer with an arduino, you don't need this protocol anymore. This doesn't work if you are still trying to interface with the original aux hydraulic control though, but if you can work out the voltage they run at, you can use mosfets to switch them on and off, same with the park brake.

I'm using mosfets, so everything is ok. Just have some flaws, I think it's normal for the first time. I cleaned up a lot of things, and I do not use Canbus but I use I2C. I have had a lot of problems while getting precise readings from the sensors / I have controlled them with mechanical ones. / So far, things are fine, I have the ability to find out if the arduino does not behave well or the mood is bad .... But I'm still afraid to share the code. This is subject to a lot of repairs so far. Nobody is interested in helping ... it upset me a little.

 

[Tazza]

I'm using mosfets, so everything is ok. Just have some flaws, I think it's normal for the first time. I cleaned up a lot of things, and I do not use Canbus but I use I2C. I have had a lot of problems while getting precise readings from the sensors / I have controlled them with mechanical ones. / So far, things are fine, I have the ability to find out if the arduino does not behave well or the mood is bad .... But I'm still afraid to share the code. This is subject to a lot of repairs so far. Nobody is interested in helping ... it upset me a little.

You are doing pretty well for your first intergration into a bobat machine, there are bound to be bugs.
I think the lack of other people jumping in with ideas, is the fact not a lot of people know how to code or wire up electronics like this. It's not something you get a manual and add a few wires and presto, it's all done. Having digital inputs, you need to be careful with wiring, they are very suseptable to glitches if not shielded or run close to something "noisy".
The only work i have done with an arduino was fairly simple, i got the code of someone else, i just needed to work out my own wiring. It was interesting, and frustrating when it glitched till i founf the cause of the issues.
Keep up with the project, it's really interesting.

 

[walio123]

You are doing pretty well for your first intergration into a bobat machine, there are bound to be bugs.
I think the lack of other people jumping in with ideas, is the fact not a lot of people know how to code or wire up electronics like this. It's not something you get a manual and add a few wires and presto, it's all done. Having digital inputs, you need to be careful with wiring, they are very suseptable to glitches if not shielded or run close to something "noisy".
The only work i have done with an arduino was fairly simple, i got the code of someone else, i just needed to work out my own wiring. It was interesting, and frustrating when it glitched till i founf the cause of the issues.
Keep up with the project, it's really interesting.

Tazza I like to do things simple. I use the analog ports for sensor readings, I had difficulties with that of the seat bar, and the rpm sensor are now resolved. I use digital I2C only for the connection between mega and nano to be able to control the screen. There is a lot more to do, but for now everything is ok ... there are bugs in the code again

 

[Tazza]

Tazza I like to do things simple. I use the analog ports for sensor readings, I had difficulties with that of the seat bar, and the rpm sensor are now resolved. I use digital I2C only for the connection between mega and nano to be able to control the screen. There is a lot more to do, but for now everything is ok ... there are bugs in the code again

Good choice using analogue for the inputs, far less potential for errors, especially on long cable runs.
Pretty sure, most people have errors in their first version of code, i'm sure you will get it all sorted out though.

 

[walio123]

Good choice using analogue for the inputs, far less potential for errors, especially on long cable runs.
Pretty sure, most people have errors in their first version of code, i'm sure you will get it all sorted out though.

At most 100 hours of work without bugs. I keep going

 

[Tazza]

At most 100 hours of work without bugs. I keep going

That's pretty impressive results, looks like you did a good job with the coding.

 

[stevelil]

I don't have much experience with the actual programming side of an Arduino, but i have a projectile casting machine that is automated with an Arduino for timing operations.
Honestly, i don't feel fully comfortable with using one of these for safety controls. It has the occasional glitch. It runs off mains power, so it could be interference causing the glitches. It's possible better code could prevent any issues, but i don't know.
This is a very good idea though, it could be adjusted to accept any style of sender or safety device.

 

[stevelil]

At most 100 hours of work without bugs. I keep going

Hello, I just joined the forum 5 minutes ago after reading your post about Arduino and BOSS System. I am looking to do something very similar. I am a professional in the hydraulics industry . I work specifically on Mobile Hydraulics and mobile electronic controls Joysticks, controllers Hydraulic proportional valve drivers etc. Namely SAE J1939 CAN Bus protocol. I happen to own a Mid 1990's Bobcat 753 with a Boss system. My Display (current Part number 7131641) is starting to fail . and i just started to look at options. the dealer said the part is a good Number but bobcat hasn't had a request for one since 2019. I wonder if that was you LOL. Anyway, I wonder if the Boss system is using Modbus protocol on RS 485. If so murphy had an interface that can "understand" Modbus 485

I believe this is pretty much the predecessor of J1708 (RS485) into J1939 with some differences.

Would you be willing to share a few lines of your Arduino code that shows the functioning protocol? I completely understand your reluctance to share your complete code from a liability and personal conscious standpoint. Please let me know. And I am very impressed with your work!