Any D series owners experience long crank times on cold start?

[bobcatguy]

I have now had two 2012 Deere 323D's with a cold start issue. Both machines have really long crank times when the temps drop. Yesterday the one I'm working on took 32 seconds from the time I started cranking to the time it finally fired! On the previous machine I had the crank times weren't quite that bad but it was taking 18 to 20 seconds to fire. On the first machine I changed the fuel rail T that has a check valve, changed soft fuel lines, installed a new fuel/water separator housing and primer pump, verified the glow plugs were getting voltage. None of that did much good. The person who bought the machine has since checked glow plugs to verify they are working and performed a compression test which checked out good. On the machine I'm not working on, I have installed new glow plugs and I'm in the process of changing to 0W40 synthetic engine oil and will most likely change the Hydraulic oil to Deere Hydrau synthetic as well. I have been told the parasitic load of thicker oil can extend crank time. I also pulled the battery and had it load tested and CCA's tested. The load test was okay and the CCA's were at 830. The battery is rated for 925. I'm going to install a known good battery with 960 CCA's (verified) to see if it improves crank speed while cold.I haven't gotten into the compression on the machine I'm working on primarily because the two machines run identically once they fire and neither shows any sign of low compression. There is no smoke through the run on either machine. There is no power loss on either machine. Any suggestions or if you have experienced this and found a fix, please let me know what you did.

 

[bobcatguy]

Just to update: I went out and started the machine after the oil change and installing a battery with higher CCA's and with the coolant temp reading 35 this morning it fired in 1.5 seconds which is by far the fastest I have seen this thing fire. Hopefully a good sign!

 

[bobcatguy]

Just to update: I went out and started the machine after the oil change and installing a battery with higher CCA's and with the coolant temp reading 35 this morning it fired in 1.5 seconds which is by far the fastest I have seen this thing fire. Hopefully a good sign!

Update: Today the machine fired in 3.1 seconds with temps in the low 20's. I have two youtube videos of the machine starting. The first is here https://youtu.be/qI5h4_UKYQ0 the second is here https://youtu.be/4oTwlOhL1w0 The difference between the two videos is that I changed the engine oil to Rotella T6 0w40 and installed a battery with 960 cold cranking amps where the original battery was only testing around 835 CCA. I think the battery along with cleaning the positive and negative terminals was a larger factor than the oil but it seems my cold start issue is resolved. If we get a colder day, I'll run a test again for comparison.

 

[Tazza]

Update: Today the machine fired in 3.1 seconds with temps in the low 20's. I have two youtube videos of the machine starting. The first is here https://youtu.be/qI5h4_UKYQ0 the second is here https://youtu.be/4oTwlOhL1w0 The difference between the two videos is that I changed the engine oil to Rotella T6 0w40 and installed a battery with 960 cold cranking amps where the original battery was only testing around 835 CCA. I think the battery along with cleaning the positive and negative terminals was a larger factor than the oil but it seems my cold start issue is resolved. If we get a colder day, I'll run a test again for comparison.

In cold weather, oil thickness and lots of battery capacity are critical. You need the cranking speed to get the heat for ignition.
It has always amazed me at just how cold a diesel engine can be and still start.

 

[kroog]

In cold weather, oil thickness and lots of battery capacity are critical. You need the cranking speed to get the heat for ignition.
It has always amazed me at just how cold a diesel engine can be and still start.

Remember, JD runs lean to start in order to pass the TierIVi emissions. The best advice I can give is get a block heater and switch to synthetic 5W40 engine oil. When it's cold, I usually plug mine in for an hour before I start and it always pops right off. I tried to start it today (30 degrees) without plugging it in and I had to cycle the glow plugs twice before it fired (9 seconds each cycle) and my 318D did NOT like starting cold. Deeres have always been cold blooded.

 

[cole0324]

Remember, JD runs lean to start in order to pass the TierIVi emissions. The best advice I can give is get a block heater and switch to synthetic 5W40 engine oil. When it's cold, I usually plug mine in for an hour before I start and it always pops right off. I tried to start it today (30 degrees) without plugging it in and I had to cycle the glow plugs twice before it fired (9 seconds each cycle) and my 318D did NOT like starting cold. Deeres have always been cold blooded.

With the crank times you posted, I think you're asking a lot of the machine without the above mentioned thinner oil and some type of block heater.

 

[bobcatguy]

Remember, JD runs lean to start in order to pass the TierIVi emissions. The best advice I can give is get a block heater and switch to synthetic 5W40 engine oil. When it's cold, I usually plug mine in for an hour before I start and it always pops right off. I tried to start it today (30 degrees) without plugging it in and I had to cycle the glow plugs twice before it fired (9 seconds each cycle) and my 318D did NOT like starting cold. Deeres have always been cold blooded.

At 20 degrees with no block heater my 323 will now fire in less than 5 seconds on a single cycling of the glow plugs. I have done more reading and more learning about the 4024 engine than I ever cared to do. Keep in mind your glow plugs cycle off of temperature. IIRC the ECU needs to see 32 degrees for the glow plugs to cycle. If you're having to cycle your glow plugs twice at 30 and it's grouchy when it fires, i'd check the amp draw of the glow plug wire that feeds the plugs under the valve cover. Another big factor is hydraulic parasitic load. Deere now has Hydrau hydraulic fluid that is cross compatible with the engine oil they used in the machine for hydraulic fluid. The pour point is much lower on the synthetic Hydrau while it maintains about the same high temperature viscosity. I am considering swapping the hydraulic fluid out simply because this machine has the EH controls and it won't smooth out until the hydraulic fluid hits about 100 degrees.

 

[JDWY]

At 20 degrees with no block heater my 323 will now fire in less than 5 seconds on a single cycling of the glow plugs. I have done more reading and more learning about the 4024 engine than I ever cared to do. Keep in mind your glow plugs cycle off of temperature. IIRC the ECU needs to see 32 degrees for the glow plugs to cycle. If you're having to cycle your glow plugs twice at 30 and it's grouchy when it fires, i'd check the amp draw of the glow plug wire that feeds the plugs under the valve cover. Another big factor is hydraulic parasitic load. Deere now has Hydrau hydraulic fluid that is cross compatible with the engine oil they used in the machine for hydraulic fluid. The pour point is much lower on the synthetic Hydrau while it maintains about the same high temperature viscosity. I am considering swapping the hydraulic fluid out simply because this machine has the EH controls and it won't smooth out until the hydraulic fluid hits about 100 degrees.

Don't know what engine you guys have, but I learned here some John Deere's were made by New Holland. My 2010 NH has the 4 Cyl Fiat (FPT) diesel, don't know if John Deere uses it also. We had quite a few 12° below zero nights and a daytime high of about 4°. I had the block heater plugged in at least 5 hours, but still no start without excessive cranking. I finally phoned the selling dealer about the hard starting during severe cold and he was quite helpful. He said first cycle the intake grid heater a couple times, touch its housing for heat to determine it's working, which I did. He said cycle the grid, crank the engine a couple revs, don't let it start but quit in order to draw hot air into the intake, THEN cycle the heater again and try to start the engine. Hope this helps.

 

[H4Contracting]

At 20 degrees with no block heater my 323 will now fire in less than 5 seconds on a single cycling of the glow plugs. I have done more reading and more learning about the 4024 engine than I ever cared to do. Keep in mind your glow plugs cycle off of temperature. IIRC the ECU needs to see 32 degrees for the glow plugs to cycle. If you're having to cycle your glow plugs twice at 30 and it's grouchy when it fires, i'd check the amp draw of the glow plug wire that feeds the plugs under the valve cover. Another big factor is hydraulic parasitic load. Deere now has Hydrau hydraulic fluid that is cross compatible with the engine oil they used in the machine for hydraulic fluid. The pour point is much lower on the synthetic Hydrau while it maintains about the same high temperature viscosity. I am considering swapping the hydraulic fluid out simply because this machine has the EH controls and it won't smooth out until the hydraulic fluid hits about 100 degrees.

Have you had any other issues since the oil and battery swap? I'm curious if this has been a long term fix. I have a 2010 319D with the same issues.

 

[arlen320D]

At 20 degrees with no block heater my 323 will now fire in less than 5 seconds on a single cycling of the glow plugs. I have done more reading and more learning about the 4024 engine than I ever cared to do. Keep in mind your glow plugs cycle off of temperature. IIRC the ECU needs to see 32 degrees for the glow plugs to cycle. If you're having to cycle your glow plugs twice at 30 and it's grouchy when it fires, i'd check the amp draw of the glow plug wire that feeds the plugs under the valve cover. Another big factor is hydraulic parasitic load. Deere now has Hydrau hydraulic fluid that is cross compatible with the engine oil they used in the machine for hydraulic fluid. The pour point is much lower on the synthetic Hydrau while it maintains about the same high temperature viscosity. I am considering swapping the hydraulic fluid out simply because this machine has the EH controls and it won't smooth out until the hydraulic fluid hits about 100 degrees.

I can confirm that switching the hydraulic oil out to Hydrau XR (the thinner synthetic one) made a huge difference in cranking speed. The engine fires right off now. I have 0w40 plus 50 in the engine and Hydrau XR in the hydraulic reservoir. I left the engine oil in the chain case for now.