Amp meter problem-630

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ancomcabs

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No power at the back of the amp meter when the motor is running, alternator is working as far as I can tell and battery is getting charged. Any idea where I should start looking to get it working? Also no power to the transmission warning light when the key is on but engine not running, engine warning light works as it should
 

donald73d

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The amp meter is measuring voltage across a shunt that is inline with the alternator output to the battery. Unless the wires going to the amp meter are very heavy. I would follow the output (largest) wire off the alternator and find the shunt. I assume you do mean amp meter not voltmeter? My 843 has a voltmeter with sawdust inside and works but does not show over 12 V. You need to measure volts across the amp meter. Then know resistance of shunt. Then I = E/R.
 
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ancomcabs

ancomcabs

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The amp meter is measuring voltage across a shunt that is inline with the alternator output to the battery. Unless the wires going to the amp meter are very heavy. I would follow the output (largest) wire off the alternator and find the shunt. I assume you do mean amp meter not voltmeter? My 843 has a voltmeter with sawdust inside and works but does not show over 12 V. You need to measure volts across the amp meter. Then know resistance of shunt. Then I = E/R.
My gauge in the cab say "amperes", +/- 50, so I assume it is an amp gauge. The Wisconsin engine in my 630 does not have a typical alternator but a "stator" . None of the 3 wires coming off it are really that heavy, probably 14-16 gauge wire. I used a volt meter to test the back of the gauge while the engine was running and assumed it would indicate around 12 volts but I'm pretty lost when it comes to electrical stuff, should I test it with something else? Thanks and have a good Thanksgiving!
 
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ancomcabs

ancomcabs

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My gauge in the cab say "amperes", +/- 50, so I assume it is an amp gauge. The Wisconsin engine in my 630 does not have a typical alternator but a "stator" . None of the 3 wires coming off it are really that heavy, probably 14-16 gauge wire. I used a volt meter to test the back of the gauge while the engine was running and assumed it would indicate around 12 volts but I'm pretty lost when it comes to electrical stuff, should I test it with something else? Thanks and have a good Thanksgiving!
Following up on my question what should I use, if anything, to test across the two leads on the back of the amp meter?
 

Tazza

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Following up on my question what should I use, if anything, to test across the two leads on the back of the amp meter?
If you measure the battery voltage with the machine off then measure it when running, it should be higher when running if the alternator was working.
The voltage across the shunt will only be a few millivolts. The higher the load the higher the voltage.
 

Jyuma

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If you measure the battery voltage with the machine off then measure it when running, it should be higher when running if the alternator was working.
The voltage across the shunt will only be a few millivolts. The higher the load the higher the voltage.
Don't bother measuring voltage across an ammeter using a standard voltmeter... it will read zero on most low-end voltmeters but in actuality will be a few millivolts.
Think of an ammeter as a fuel flow meter for electricity. An ammeter measures how much electrical energy (not voltage) is passing through a given portion of an electrical circuit... in this case a charging circuit.
Generally the starting/charging circuits operate at fairly high current and therefore by definition they require fat wires. The fatter the wire the more current flow it can accommodate and the thinner the wire the less current flow it can accommodate.
Think of electrical current flow as being water through a hose. A thin plastic garden hose cannot allow as much water to pass through it as a big fat fire hose can. The same thing is true for wires and electricity... a thin wire cannot allow as much electrical current to flow through it as a fat wire. Therefore, by definition, starting/charging circuits must use fat wires (unless you're talking about a lawn tractor that requires relatively little current to do either).
It is not practical to run big fat wires to the back of your ammeter (usually mounted in your front panel) so they do the next best thing... they run smaller wires from the ammeter to a device called a shunt (almost like a fusible link) which is connected between the output of the alternator and the positive battery terminal... one wire to one end of the shunt and the other to the opposite end of the shunt. The theory being that as electrical energy passes through the shunt, there will be a small (very small) voltage drop across the shunt in direct proportion to the amount of current flowing through the shunt. The more current the more voltage drop, and the less current the less voltage drop. An ammeter is nothing more than an expanded volt meter and it is this small voltage drop across the shunt that is being measured by the ammeter.
If your ammeter is not working... but your charging system is... then there are only a few possibilities. First (and most likely) one of the two wires going from the ammeter to the shunt is broken or there is a poor connection either at the ammeter itself or at the shunt. The second possibility is the ammeter itself is defective. There really aren't any other failure points to look for.
 
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ancomcabs

ancomcabs

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Nov 3, 2011
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Don't bother measuring voltage across an ammeter using a standard voltmeter... it will read zero on most low-end voltmeters but in actuality will be a few millivolts.
Think of an ammeter as a fuel flow meter for electricity. An ammeter measures how much electrical energy (not voltage) is passing through a given portion of an electrical circuit... in this case a charging circuit.
Generally the starting/charging circuits operate at fairly high current and therefore by definition they require fat wires. The fatter the wire the more current flow it can accommodate and the thinner the wire the less current flow it can accommodate.
Think of electrical current flow as being water through a hose. A thin plastic garden hose cannot allow as much water to pass through it as a big fat fire hose can. The same thing is true for wires and electricity... a thin wire cannot allow as much electrical current to flow through it as a fat wire. Therefore, by definition, starting/charging circuits must use fat wires (unless you're talking about a lawn tractor that requires relatively little current to do either).
It is not practical to run big fat wires to the back of your ammeter (usually mounted in your front panel) so they do the next best thing... they run smaller wires from the ammeter to a device called a shunt (almost like a fusible link) which is connected between the output of the alternator and the positive battery terminal... one wire to one end of the shunt and the other to the opposite end of the shunt. The theory being that as electrical energy passes through the shunt, there will be a small (very small) voltage drop across the shunt in direct proportion to the amount of current flowing through the shunt. The more current the more voltage drop, and the less current the less voltage drop. An ammeter is nothing more than an expanded volt meter and it is this small voltage drop across the shunt that is being measured by the ammeter.
If your ammeter is not working... but your charging system is... then there are only a few possibilities. First (and most likely) one of the two wires going from the ammeter to the shunt is broken or there is a poor connection either at the ammeter itself or at the shunt. The second possibility is the ammeter itself is defective. There really aren't any other failure points to look for.
Thanks all, very helpfull
 

donald73d

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345
Thanks all, very helpfull
I would first make sure you are charging the battery by using a DMM and measure the voltage at the battery with it off and with it running. It should be around 12.6 V with engine off and 14 with it running. If you have a DC clamp on amp meter you can measure the current at the battery cable. Right after startup you should see some current flowing, but 15 minutes latter there will not be much. With engine off pull one lead off amp meter and measure resistance (ohms) from that lead to the other lead. It should be very low. I would guess less than 1 ohm. If its very high or infinity then the wiring to the shunt is bad. The shunt itself cannot be bad if your battery is being charged. If its easy to get the amp meter out, you can pull the battery cable on a car or Bobcat and hold one terminal of the meter to the removed cable and the other to the battery post and have someone turn on headlights (not start). The meter should move off center by whatever load the headlights put on it. Maybe 10 - 20 amps. Note you can just hold things with your hands for this test, the current nor voltage is not high.
 
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