853 starter clicking

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Trochel

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Joined
Aug 28, 2022
Messages
15
Starter/solenoid clicks when you turn key. Sometimes it will engage and start
skid steer. I’ve installed new relays, new solenoid, new starter, new battery cables new fully charged battery. Still have to turn key multiple times.
 

brdgbldr

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 1, 2012
Messages
525
If it is a ”keyed” machine, try changing out the ignition switch. I’ve had to change out a lot of these over the years.

Also, trace the ignition wire. If there is a loose connection or a short you will get this problem. Make sure to clean all the ground points.
 
OP
OP
T

Trochel

Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2022
Messages
15
If it is a ”keyed” machine, try changing out the ignition switch. I’ve had to change out a lot of these over the years.

Also, trace the ignition wire. If there is a loose connection or a short you will get this problem. Make sure to clean all the ground points.
It is a keyed machine. Will try your recommendations. Thanks.
 

mrbb

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 19, 2016
Messages
297
that would be my suggestion too
and also, do you have a battery disconnect switch, between battery and fuse box?
if so, them battery disconnects also go bad and prevent correct amps/power, to flow to things like starters and relays, which will result in things not working as they should, causing the clicking and such!

and lastly, check your fuse box, pull and inspect all fuses, and look for corrosion, that too can cause power flow and cause you issues like your having!
 
OP
OP
T

Trochel

Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2022
Messages
15
Cleaned all connections, checked wiring finding nothing wrong,
installed new ignition switch. Still have the same problem.
click click click. frustrated.
 

Wayne440

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Joined
Sep 24, 2017
Messages
274
My advice, start from square one again keeping in mind that "new" and "good" are not always the same thing.

My usual troubleshooting tools for these sort of problems are a VOM and length of zip cord with a switch on one end and alligator clips on the other.
 

Jyuma1

Active member
Joined
Oct 23, 2022
Messages
37
The starter circuit, reduced to its simplest form, is just the battery connected to the starter motor.
Let's assume (for simplicity) that it takes 100 amps for the starter motor to crank the engine. In that circuit the wire would need to have about .1 of an ohm resistance (that's one tenth of one ohm, which is very low resistance).

Let's add in some auxiliary components to that simplified circuit, which are the starter solenoid and possibly a battery disconnect, if you have one. Either of those 2 components add resistance to the circuit, but there is a third auxiliary component in that circuit that we sometimes overlook... the wire that connects the battery to the starter motor. Don't bother looking for high resistance on thin wires, they will not be the cause of your problem. The problem will be related to the thick wires.

The click you hear is most likely the starter solenoid attempting to connect the battery supply to the starter motor. The solenoid requires comparativly little current to operate so any "high" resistance in the circuit will not stop it from engaging the battery but once engaged, the total resistance of the circuit is too high to allow high current to flow. There are several component failures that can cause the resistance to be too high and you've already replaced the usual suspects.

That leaves us with the thick wires or the battery itself as the culprit. I have seen the factory crimp of the battery connectors develop high resistance (it doesn't take much) which prevents the flow of high current to the starter motor. Everything else electric works fine but the starter just won't run..."Click".

The most likely cause of the "click" is a high resistance battery connection. Hopefully you have already removed the battery connections and cleaned both the battery studs as well as the inside of the connectors themselves. And let's not forget the battery itself, as it is the only source of power capable of turning the engine over.

Good luck.
 

thwerench

Active member
Joined
May 29, 2022
Messages
28
New just means it hasn’t been tried yet. If you can get at the starter solinoid apply 12volts to the small terminal. That bypasses the ignition switch and its circuit. If it starts suspect poor circuit because you’ve already replaced switch. If not then confirm battery cables are in good shape ( check for green rot at both power and ground connections) a cheap battery load tester hooked up to the cable at starter and a clean ground will confirm that circuit if in doubt. If circuits test ok go back to starter
 

Jerry01314

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Joined
Dec 1, 2022
Messages
15
Could be new starter is bad. Maybe a load test is in order. If it is a rebuilt starter then could have same bad spot to turn. Bobcat told me hit starter with a hammer on the side. See if that works. Could also be so tight you need to loosen nuts a little. If that is the case then spray away greese so it can ground to frame.
 

ghs57

Active member
Joined
Jul 1, 2014
Messages
26
I agree that this sounds like a starter issue. The Denso starter in my old Thomas T133, w/Kubota V1902, did this for about a year before I fixed it. If yours is a Denso starter, the contacts wear down and do not make good contact every time your turn the key. Sometimes it's good to to engage, sometimes not. The good news is that the copper contacts are dirt cheap (on eBay), and it's a simple rebuild. Or you can replace the starter. If you can get it to engage after a hammer tap or two, pretty sure sign that's what its is.
 

Jyuma1

Active member
Joined
Oct 23, 2022
Messages
37
I agree that this sounds like a starter issue. The Denso starter in my old Thomas T133, w/Kubota V1902, did this for about a year before I fixed it. If yours is a Denso starter, the contacts wear down and do not make good contact every time your turn the key. Sometimes it's good to to engage, sometimes not. The good news is that the copper contacts are dirt cheap (on eBay), and it's a simple rebuild. Or you can replace the starter. If you can get it to engage after a hammer tap or two, pretty sure sign that's what its is.
What copper contacts are you referring to? Sounds more like a starter solenoid issue than a starter motor issue. However, OP already changed the starter motor and just about everything else in the starter circuit.

I'd be tempted to connect a battery jumper cable to the +12v side of the battery and then touch the other end to the starter motor 12v lug (not the 12v lug on the solenoid but the +12v lug on the starter motor itself). If the starter motor turns the engine over with 12v directly connected, then I'd connect the jumper cable to the 12v lug to the solenoid and try the key to crank. If the starter motor still won't engage, but the click of the solenoid is heard, it's likely the starter solenoid that has failed.
 

dfb

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 11, 2017
Messages
55
Use a voltmeter, negative lead directly at battery ground connection, positive lead at starter positive terminal and observe voltage while click is occurring. it should be very close to batt voltage while holding key in start position. If ok install meter positive lead on starter case leaving negative lead at Batt negative post. Voltage should remain near zero when click is occurring{crank attempt}. If both are ok, it is a starter issue, if one is off it will guide you to which side of the circuit needs further diagnosis.
 

ghs57

Active member
Joined
Jul 1, 2014
Messages
26
I should have been clearer in my comment that I meant the starter solenoid contacts. This would be the two plates that contact the plunger when the solenoid is energized. Rebuild kits usually include the plates and plunger, but it may only be the contacts that are worn and pitted, leading to an intermittent connection, or eventually no connection at all.

I missed that OP changed the starter. If he changed the starter (with solenoid), than this is probably not the issue.
 

Blacksheep

Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2022
Messages
5
It has been mentioned but too often Grounds are the issue in a no start...(key, cables, solenoid, relay, etc) but the main ground cable AND the STARTER need good clean contact grounds to function properly....even though the starter was changed, (should have done a bench test before) if you didn't clean the block area that the starter fastens too it may be lacking a proper ground. As to contacts burned that usually happens when you insist on continueing to try to start the engine with a battery that is too low to both flip engine over and power up the ignition. So the low amps turn the contacts into an arc welder, pitting and adding carbon trails till it fails to function at all. Starter out or in the frame and bench test that it works...then back trail the wire till the culprit is found in my case its some where between the starter and the key and i cant find it.....so i put in a separate wire and switch with fuse and can use that to start till it shows up.
 

Jim A

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 28, 2022
Messages
54
Take solenoid apart clean main copper contacts inside which transfer power to motor. Also hit motor lead with power directly and starter motor should spin without Bendix drive moving out .
Very common issue.
even happens when machines sit green corrosion forms on copper contacts .
I have rebuilt thousands of starters since 1978.
May have to un solder solenoid wires to get plastic end off.
 
OP
OP
T

Trochel

Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2022
Messages
15
It has been mentioned but too often Grounds are the issue in a no start...(key, cables, solenoid, relay, etc) but the main ground cable AND the STARTER need good clean contact grounds to function properly....even though the starter was changed, (should have done a bench test before) if you didn't clean the block area that the starter fastens too it may be lacking a proper ground. As to contacts burned that usually happens when you insist on continueing to try to start the engine with a battery that is too low to both flip engine over and power up the ignition. So the low amps turn the contacts into an arc welder, pitting and adding carbon trails till it fails to function at all. Starter out or in the frame and bench test that it works...then back trail the wire till the culprit is found in my case its some where between the starter and the key and i cant find it.....so i put in a separate wire and switch with fuse and can use that to start till it shows up.
Thank you
 
OP
OP
T

Trochel

Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2022
Messages
15
I should have been clearer in my comment that I meant the starter solenoid contacts. This would be the two plates that contact the plunger when the solenoid is energized. Rebuild kits usually include the plates and plunger, but it may only be the contacts that are worn and pitted, leading to an intermittent connection, or eventually no connection at all.

I missed that OP changed the starter. If he changed the starter (with solenoid), than this is probably not the issue.
Thank you
 
OP
OP
T

Trochel

Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2022
Messages
15
Use a voltmeter, negative lead directly at battery ground connection, positive lead at starter positive terminal and observe voltage while click is occurring. it should be very close to batt voltage while holding key in start position. If ok install meter positive lead on starter case leaving negative lead at Batt negative post. Voltage should remain near zero when click is occurring{crank attempt}. If both are ok, it is a starter issue, if one is off it will guide you to which side of the circuit needs further diagnosis.
Thanks
 
OP
OP
T

Trochel

Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2022
Messages
15
What copper contacts are you referring to? Sounds more like a starter solenoid issue than a starter motor issue. However, OP already changed the starter motor and just about everything else in the starter circuit.

I'd be tempted to connect a battery jumper cable to the +12v side of the battery and then touch the other end to the starter motor 12v lug (not the 12v lug on the solenoid but the +12v lug on the starter motor itself). If the starter motor turns the engine over with 12v directly connected, then I'd connect the jumper cable to the 12v lug to the solenoid and try the key to crank. If the starter motor still won't engage, but the click of the solenoid is heard, it's likely the starter solenoid that has failed.
Thanks
 

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