632 has LOUD noise and no movement

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BobMn

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Hi Guys; Well, drove down to level some gravel for the neighbor, and Bang! It quit moving. I ck'd and could not see any thing. I started the Bobcat up again, And it sounds like the coupling inside. Any tips on changing this? I have the shop manuel.....It says pull the engine. Not anything on the coupling. Also, how do you guys move the machine when it's not running? I am going to take my logging truck down tomorrow, and chain under and lift it up on the truck. (I hope) I'm open to any ideas. Thanks for any help. Bobmn
 

Tazza

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The only way is brute force, if you can drag it up or even get a tilt tray and get them to drag it up. You can get a device to allow towing but its a lot of effort to fit and you still need to drag it.
From what you say, it does sound like the uni-joint has gone and yes, you need to pull the engine out.
Good luck!
 

Tazza

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The only way is brute force, if you can drag it up or even get a tilt tray and get them to drag it up. You can get a device to allow towing but its a lot of effort to fit and you still need to drag it.
From what you say, it does sound like the uni-joint has gone and yes, you need to pull the engine out.
Good luck!
No hydraulics either? if so, it must be between the engine and pumps. Its basically engine/uni-joint/right side drive/left side drive/hydraulic pump.
 
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BobMn

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No hydraulics either? if so, it must be between the engine and pumps. Its basically engine/uni-joint/right side drive/left side drive/hydraulic pump.
Tazza; Thanks for the help! I'll keep eveyone posted, to how this goes. Bob
 

jerry

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Tazza; Thanks for the help! I'll keep eveyone posted, to how this goes. Bob
Bob, it is a double u-joint in there with a center piece between. I changed mine on the 632 this summer, it takes a couple hours to pull the engine and about the same back in. The u-joints were available from the Bumper to Bumper auto parts store but they grease down in the cross and not in the end cap like the original and they were only like $10 cheaper. From Bobcat they were $153 for both and $13 for new bolts. Hopefully it didn't hurt anything else in there like the fan on the flywheel. By the way Bobcat quoted about $1000 to do the job but I think they were going to replace the center piece also. The coupling is held on the pump by a center bolt and is a tapered fit be sure it tightens down on the taper. On mine it did not until I made a washer to put under the bolt head but the previous owner had the joints break so that may have had something to do with it.
 
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BobMn

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Bob, it is a double u-joint in there with a center piece between. I changed mine on the 632 this summer, it takes a couple hours to pull the engine and about the same back in. The u-joints were available from the Bumper to Bumper auto parts store but they grease down in the cross and not in the end cap like the original and they were only like $10 cheaper. From Bobcat they were $153 for both and $13 for new bolts. Hopefully it didn't hurt anything else in there like the fan on the flywheel. By the way Bobcat quoted about $1000 to do the job but I think they were going to replace the center piece also. The coupling is held on the pump by a center bolt and is a tapered fit be sure it tightens down on the taper. On mine it did not until I made a washer to put under the bolt head but the previous owner had the joints break so that may have had something to do with it.
Jerry; Thank you!!!! I just came in from the shop. I pulled the engine, and one of bolts is missing, one is broke off, down in. The u joint came apart. The bolts were never tighten enough or no lock tight was used. One bolt hole was tore up some at the top, but 95% of the rest is good. Also, the engine pulled out, without disconnecting any thing. Who ever had this apart the last time, didn't put the tapered bolt back in? Also did you have someone line up the splines, as the engine gets slid back? I have the Bobcat manual, and I can not find any info on the joints, or the connecting part. The fan is ok (well the one broken bolt) THANK you for all the tips and info! Bob
 

jerry

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Jerry; Thank you!!!! I just came in from the shop. I pulled the engine, and one of bolts is missing, one is broke off, down in. The u joint came apart. The bolts were never tighten enough or no lock tight was used. One bolt hole was tore up some at the top, but 95% of the rest is good. Also, the engine pulled out, without disconnecting any thing. Who ever had this apart the last time, didn't put the tapered bolt back in? Also did you have someone line up the splines, as the engine gets slid back? I have the Bobcat manual, and I can not find any info on the joints, or the connecting part. The fan is ok (well the one broken bolt) THANK you for all the tips and info! Bob
Bob, yes I had help to line up the coupling. Ours looked like it had a serious problem before I got it, there were all kinds of bash marks in that area. If I remember right that is a socket head or allen head bolt and then a fairly thick washer under the head about 1/8 thick. When I put the coupling on the taper I could see that the end of the shaft stuck out a few thousandths beyond the coupling so I machined a washer ring to fit around the shaft so the washer on the bolt would press against it and tighten up the taper. On another note have you ever thought about converting your machine so the cab would tilt forward and take the seat with it? I think it could be done easy enough, the plate surrounding the levers would have to stay put and the seat would have to be fastened to the rops instead of the frame. It would make everything a lot easier I think, maybe this winter if it doesn't look like it would weaken the machine.
 

jerry

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Bob, yes I had help to line up the coupling. Ours looked like it had a serious problem before I got it, there were all kinds of bash marks in that area. If I remember right that is a socket head or allen head bolt and then a fairly thick washer under the head about 1/8 thick. When I put the coupling on the taper I could see that the end of the shaft stuck out a few thousandths beyond the coupling so I machined a washer ring to fit around the shaft so the washer on the bolt would press against it and tighten up the taper. On another note have you ever thought about converting your machine so the cab would tilt forward and take the seat with it? I think it could be done easy enough, the plate surrounding the levers would have to stay put and the seat would have to be fastened to the rops instead of the frame. It would make everything a lot easier I think, maybe this winter if it doesn't look like it would weaken the machine.
Bob, I looked through my service book and it doesn't cover the u joint that I could see. The operators manual shows it but that is all.
 

Tazza

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Bob, I looked through my service book and it doesn't cover the u joint that I could see. The operators manual shows it but that is all.
They are easy enough, just remove the dead ones and install the newies and you may even want to put a drop of loctite on the threads. A helper pushing the engine forward is a must, you lay down on the pump and hold the joint up and get someone with a pry bar to nudge the engine forward till it stops, rotate the engine slightly and it will line up then simply keep pushing the engine!
Its a lot easier the second time, trust me :)
 
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BobMn

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Bob, I looked through my service book and it doesn't cover the u joint that I could see. The operators manual shows it but that is all.
Jerry; Ahhh, the operators manual!! I guess I should get one! Well, yesterday, I spent a couple of hrs pressure washing a LOT of dirt and hyd. oil out of the engine bay and off the engine. I left the Bobcat on my trailer, and set my engine hoist up on the trailer. Then, I just drove out of the shop to keep the mess outside. One of the allen bolts was broke off in the fan. This one of the only times, a EASY OUT worked!! Now, as the 4 allen bolts were working loose, they hogged out the top part of the alum. bolt holes. I retapped the holes... then used a u joint cap to try to see if the bolt would tighten down. Well, two would and the other two not! I was going to look at going to 3/8 bolts in the alum. But, the caps are 5/16. May be able to drill those out. Also going all the way though, and using a nut on the back. Maybe boring a hole in the fan for the nut. But tomorrow we will be going to our" friendly" Dealer (with a Brinks truck:) for a parts run. Thanks again guys for all the info!! Bob ps Tazza..I know what you mean by "easyer the 2nd time!!!
 

jerry

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Jerry; Ahhh, the operators manual!! I guess I should get one! Well, yesterday, I spent a couple of hrs pressure washing a LOT of dirt and hyd. oil out of the engine bay and off the engine. I left the Bobcat on my trailer, and set my engine hoist up on the trailer. Then, I just drove out of the shop to keep the mess outside. One of the allen bolts was broke off in the fan. This one of the only times, a EASY OUT worked!! Now, as the 4 allen bolts were working loose, they hogged out the top part of the alum. bolt holes. I retapped the holes... then used a u joint cap to try to see if the bolt would tighten down. Well, two would and the other two not! I was going to look at going to 3/8 bolts in the alum. But, the caps are 5/16. May be able to drill those out. Also going all the way though, and using a nut on the back. Maybe boring a hole in the fan for the nut. But tomorrow we will be going to our" friendly" Dealer (with a Brinks truck:) for a parts run. Thanks again guys for all the info!! Bob ps Tazza..I know what you mean by "easyer the 2nd time!!!
Bob, by the way you are welcome. Somewhere on this forum there is a post from a person who replaced the u joints and the center part and couplings as a assembled unit from Bobcat and it disintegrated and wiped out the fan due to a bolt breaking. By aluminum do you mean the center piece? If so I would try to replace it if possible. I don't know if I would trust a helicoil in there i guess it would depend on how the part looks, if it is distorted or such. kap258 was the poster who had the joint trouble if you search for his posts, it was on a 743 but similar part. So far the operators manual has not helped much, the pictures are poor. It would help if Bobcat actually had these books printed instead of run off on a copy machine.
 

Tazza

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Bob, by the way you are welcome. Somewhere on this forum there is a post from a person who replaced the u joints and the center part and couplings as a assembled unit from Bobcat and it disintegrated and wiped out the fan due to a bolt breaking. By aluminum do you mean the center piece? If so I would try to replace it if possible. I don't know if I would trust a helicoil in there i guess it would depend on how the part looks, if it is distorted or such. kap258 was the poster who had the joint trouble if you search for his posts, it was on a 743 but similar part. So far the operators manual has not helped much, the pictures are poor. It would help if Bobcat actually had these books printed instead of run off on a copy machine.
I remember that one, it did massive damage and i think they even got Bobcat to actually replace the broken parts, including a broken flywheel/blower and i think it even took out the oil cooler or radiator or even both.....
 
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BobMn

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I remember that one, it did massive damage and i think they even got Bobcat to actually replace the broken parts, including a broken flywheel/blower and i think it even took out the oil cooler or radiator or even both.....
Hello guys; I looked up that u joint thread......not good! Also, I will look those mounts before going tomorrow. I did find one of the rad. hoses was almost wore through, from rubbing on the bracket. Jerry; I agree about Bobcat's copying their manual. I'll post tomorrow nite after we get back from Bobcat. Thanks again Bob
 
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BobMn

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Hello guys; I looked up that u joint thread......not good! Also, I will look those mounts before going tomorrow. I did find one of the rad. hoses was almost wore through, from rubbing on the bracket. Jerry; I agree about Bobcat's copying their manual. I'll post tomorrow nite after we get back from Bobcat. Thanks again Bob
Hello to all; Well, 55 miles to the dealer.....some SNOW flurries and it's SIX HUNDRED BUCKS and change for the fan!!!!!!! And Bobcat does NOT list the fan anymore. But he looked up his place and got this really big price. They had the U joints...Bobcat calls those "Spiders" They are 72.21 frt and 70.13 rear. After, I got up off the floor......I said I'll fix the bolt holes my self! When we got home, I put a straight edge across the back off the fan, and I have about 7/16'' clearance. I"m thinking of longer grade 8 Allen bolts, and using what threads are left in the fan, and with the bolts sticking out enough, use aircraft nuts and 271 red Locktite. One of the tech's overheard me, and said " That's what I'd do"........Made me smile! So, meanwhile I've got 14 old tractors left to ck antifreeze on. Thanks guys Bob
 

Tazza

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Hello to all; Well, 55 miles to the dealer.....some SNOW flurries and it's SIX HUNDRED BUCKS and change for the fan!!!!!!! And Bobcat does NOT list the fan anymore. But he looked up his place and got this really big price. They had the U joints...Bobcat calls those "Spiders" They are 72.21 frt and 70.13 rear. After, I got up off the floor......I said I'll fix the bolt holes my self! When we got home, I put a straight edge across the back off the fan, and I have about 7/16'' clearance. I"m thinking of longer grade 8 Allen bolts, and using what threads are left in the fan, and with the bolts sticking out enough, use aircraft nuts and 271 red Locktite. One of the tech's overheard me, and said " That's what I'd do"........Made me smile! So, meanwhile I've got 14 old tractors left to ck antifreeze on. Thanks guys Bob
Thats a pretty pricy fan... but i figured it would be pricy.
Yeah, they do call the U-joints spiders in the manuals. Those prices seem reasonable for the U-joints. You can get them a bit cheaper if you have the time to shop around. I think i got a quote for AUD $120 for a pair to replace the two on my 743 that one has locked up on, may as well replace them both. That price was non-genuine from a friend of ours that works in the bearing business.
I see no reason why you can't re-tap the holes to the fly wheel out larger and install a suitable bolt. Loctite is a good idea, just to be sure. Even though it has U-joints you need to be careful with alignment, i think the limit is no more than 1/4" from being in-line with the pump. You are suposed to check the height from the floor in the engine bay to the centre of the pump spline and the same to the centre of the fly wheel. They should be almost the same (within 1/4"). I doubt this is what caused your old U-joints to fail as the bolts failed and not the joint its self. Just something to check is all.
 
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BobMn

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Thats a pretty pricy fan... but i figured it would be pricy.
Yeah, they do call the U-joints spiders in the manuals. Those prices seem reasonable for the U-joints. You can get them a bit cheaper if you have the time to shop around. I think i got a quote for AUD $120 for a pair to replace the two on my 743 that one has locked up on, may as well replace them both. That price was non-genuine from a friend of ours that works in the bearing business.
I see no reason why you can't re-tap the holes to the fly wheel out larger and install a suitable bolt. Loctite is a good idea, just to be sure. Even though it has U-joints you need to be careful with alignment, i think the limit is no more than 1/4" from being in-line with the pump. You are suposed to check the height from the floor in the engine bay to the centre of the pump spline and the same to the centre of the fly wheel. They should be almost the same (within 1/4"). I doubt this is what caused your old U-joints to fail as the bolts failed and not the joint its self. Just something to check is all.
Tazza: Yes, it is nice to have friends in the parts business!! I don't have to pay sales tax as long as whatever I buy is for the farm. I just talked to one of the parts places in town, and he said if I fill out their paper work and the company will decide if our farm is a REAL business!! Then, he wants a list of all our equipment, so he can list all the filters. He said I would get them at cost, cause Wix pays them the difference. 10 to 25% off on parts. Wow, I like this part!! Well, I'm NOT going to hold my breath!! It would be nice to get break on parts. Ok....today I looked at the rad. and on one side of the bracket, the soder had broke loose. So, out it comes so I can redo. I have ordered both hoses also. But, as I looked up at the oil cooler, I could NOT see it! It was complety covered in oil and dirt! So, I pulled it out, and tommorow will soak and clean the cooler. Thank you for the 1/4" alignment tip. I did not know that. Bob
 

Tazza

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Tazza: Yes, it is nice to have friends in the parts business!! I don't have to pay sales tax as long as whatever I buy is for the farm. I just talked to one of the parts places in town, and he said if I fill out their paper work and the company will decide if our farm is a REAL business!! Then, he wants a list of all our equipment, so he can list all the filters. He said I would get them at cost, cause Wix pays them the difference. 10 to 25% off on parts. Wow, I like this part!! Well, I'm NOT going to hold my breath!! It would be nice to get break on parts. Ok....today I looked at the rad. and on one side of the bracket, the soder had broke loose. So, out it comes so I can redo. I have ordered both hoses also. But, as I looked up at the oil cooler, I could NOT see it! It was complety covered in oil and dirt! So, I pulled it out, and tommorow will soak and clean the cooler. Thank you for the 1/4" alignment tip. I did not know that. Bob
Thats a nice deal if you can do that!
The cooler and radiator can get a bit dirty..... I used a pressure washer and kero to clean mine out, works a treat! I will try and remember to look up the alignment specs just to be sure but i was sure it was 1/4" better be sure!
 

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