600 leaking gas

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bob600

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Joined
Jul 6, 2009
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If you plan on keeping your 600, the maintenance book is the best attachment out there. I'll have to wait for wifey to show me how to scan in the governor pages this afternoon. I thought I'd read here about a place you could subscibe for online reading / printing of various Bobcat manuals. I know mine is blurry enough in the old book, let alone my less than pro scanning abilities. Good luck.
Okay thanks. I will have to obtain a manual. There is an illustrated parts/schematic book and a maintenance/procedure manual I take it?
 

BobMelroe

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Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Messages
77
Okay thanks. I will have to obtain a manual. There is an illustrated parts/schematic book and a maintenance/procedure manual I take it?
I took OldMachinists advice, and used Mediafire. I have uploaded pages for timing, carb, governor, and general information/specification pages for you. The whole thing is like 8 pages. If you need anything else, let me know. I would do the whole manual, but it'd take like a month and way more patience than I will ever have
emotion-5.gif


The link (if it works) is here: Just click where it says "Click here to start download"
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?z1moizc3tmz


The governor works off the engines speed to regulate the engines speed. As odd as it sounds. So when a particular speed is set by the operator, and the engine tries to go above that speed, the governor forces the butterfly on the carb closed until the set speed is achieved. If it falls below the set speed, the governor opens the butterfly on the carb until the speed is achieved. It relies on centrifugal force created by the engines speed. There are weights in it that move in and out, and the operator determines how far out they go by the lever (aka accelerator), this determines max speed. It's a fairly simple mechanical device (invented like a billion years ago for steam engines) that usually doesn't give you any problems. Your problem is either fuel delivery, vacuum leakage, or carburetor If you can get it to idle by itself, even erratically, you can use an unlit propane torch, or a can of carb cleaner or WD-40 with the straw on it (my weapon of choice) to check for vacuum leaks. If you hit one the engine will usually smooth out, and may want to stall. Something easy to try first I guess.
What I meant when closing the choke while running was just that. Try to run the engine with partial to almost full choke. Just close it slowly until it stalls to see if there is a difference. If it's lack of fuel or a vacuum leak the engine will smooth out. Had the same problem you are having on my tractor. Was running great then all of a sudden, wanted to crap out. The only way it would run was at almost full choke. Ended up being a slug of something (probably rust from the gas tank) getting sucked up into the tiny pickup tube for the idle circuit. I have witnessed people actually boiling carburetors They suspend them from a piece of wire in a pot of water. I've never done it personally, but was told it softens up the crud enough so you can poke it out of the holes and such with a pipe cleaner or copper wire (don't use steel). Not saying you need to, just offering free information.
Geez, this is long winded! Hopefully it helps!!
 
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bob600

Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2009
Messages
21
I took OldMachinists advice, and used Mediafire. I have uploaded pages for timing, carb, governor, and general information/specification pages for you. The whole thing is like 8 pages. If you need anything else, let me know. I would do the whole manual, but it'd take like a month and way more patience than I will ever have

The link (if it works) is here: Just click where it says "Click here to start download"
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?z1moizc3tmz

The governor works off the engines speed to regulate the engines speed. As odd as it sounds. So when a particular speed is set by the operator, and the engine tries to go above that speed, the governor forces the butterfly on the carb closed until the set speed is achieved. If it falls below the set speed, the governor opens the butterfly on the carb until the speed is achieved. It relies on centrifugal force created by the engines speed. There are weights in it that move in and out, and the operator determines how far out they go by the lever (aka accelerator), this determines max speed. It's a fairly simple mechanical device (invented like a billion years ago for steam engines) that usually doesn't give you any problems. Your problem is either fuel delivery, vacuum leakage, or carburetor If you can get it to idle by itself, even erratically, you can use an unlit propane torch, or a can of carb cleaner or WD-40 with the straw on it (my weapon of choice) to check for vacuum leaks. If you hit one the engine will usually smooth out, and may want to stall. Something easy to try first I guess.
What I meant when closing the choke while running was just that. Try to run the engine with partial to almost full choke. Just close it slowly until it stalls to see if there is a difference. If it's lack of fuel or a vacuum leak the engine will smooth out. Had the same problem you are having on my tractor. Was running great then all of a sudden, wanted to crap out. The only way it would run was at almost full choke. Ended up being a slug of something (probably rust from the gas tank) getting sucked up into the tiny pickup tube for the idle circuit. I have witnessed people actually boiling carburetors They suspend them from a piece of wire in a pot of water. I've never done it personally, but was told it softens up the crud enough so you can poke it out of the holes and such with a pipe cleaner or copper wire (don't use steel). Not saying you need to, just offering free information.
Geez, this is long winded! Hopefully it helps!!
Hey I just downloaded those pages. Next stop is to buy the whole thing! It actually looks like a great service manual--not like some automobile manuals that usually state, "this procedure is beyond the scope of the home mechanic and so is not illustrated." I will now test for vacuum leaks, I aready tried to and did not find any during a cursory inspection. I did tighten the intake manifold a little. All input is appreciated.
 
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bob600

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Joined
Jul 6, 2009
Messages
21
Hey I just downloaded those pages. Next stop is to buy the whole thing! It actually looks like a great service manual--not like some automobile manuals that usually state, "this procedure is beyond the scope of the home mechanic and so is not illustrated." I will now test for vacuum leaks, I aready tried to and did not find any during a cursory inspection. I did tighten the intake manifold a little. All input is appreciated.
Also, I replaced the mechanical fuel pump with an electrical fuel pump and intitially had much better luck starting the engine with the electrical pump mainly because the other one was leaking and couldn't supply enough gas. After getting the electrical one, which shows a picture of a skid steer on the box, the guy at NAPA told me he could also order a new mechanical one for it just so you'll out there know you can get one if you need it. I had it running and tried to use it. There is still some surging going on. I took apart the carb again and cleaned it. The float was sticking open before when I had the gravity tank set up and all of the gas leaked out, so I tried to adjust the float a little while I had it open to shut off the gas a little earlier, but now I am thinking it might be shutting it off too soon? When it was running with the new pump it had enough pull on the governor that it would acutually pull the throttle handle all the way back unless I held it. If I held it forward I could actually get way more speed and power than I could when I bought the unit and when it was running okay. However after using it to move about one bucket of dirt it stalled out, and then will start again but then stall. I does seem like it is not getting enough fuel now, which was why I was thinking the float was set too low? But there may be a vacuum leak somewhere. What is the deal with the air cleaner? What is the filter element and why is there a "reset" button on the air cleaner? I am hoping to get this thang running well! I thought it was going to with the new pump, and so I had a full dump truck load of fill dirt delivered that I had to end up shoveling and raking by hand. 21 tonnes! Would have taken way less time to use the skid steer, even though it was mostly shoveling it down a slope. Thanks again for all feed-back. Also thanks again for the previous offer of the free fuel pump--I ended up not liking the gravity fed setup too much because all of the gas leaked out, so I had to go with what I could get imediatley.
 

BobMelroe

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Messages
77
Also, I replaced the mechanical fuel pump with an electrical fuel pump and intitially had much better luck starting the engine with the electrical pump mainly because the other one was leaking and couldn't supply enough gas. After getting the electrical one, which shows a picture of a skid steer on the box, the guy at NAPA told me he could also order a new mechanical one for it just so you'll out there know you can get one if you need it. I had it running and tried to use it. There is still some surging going on. I took apart the carb again and cleaned it. The float was sticking open before when I had the gravity tank set up and all of the gas leaked out, so I tried to adjust the float a little while I had it open to shut off the gas a little earlier, but now I am thinking it might be shutting it off too soon? When it was running with the new pump it had enough pull on the governor that it would acutually pull the throttle handle all the way back unless I held it. If I held it forward I could actually get way more speed and power than I could when I bought the unit and when it was running okay. However after using it to move about one bucket of dirt it stalled out, and then will start again but then stall. I does seem like it is not getting enough fuel now, which was why I was thinking the float was set too low? But there may be a vacuum leak somewhere. What is the deal with the air cleaner? What is the filter element and why is there a "reset" button on the air cleaner? I am hoping to get this thang running well! I thought it was going to with the new pump, and so I had a full dump truck load of fill dirt delivered that I had to end up shoveling and raking by hand. 21 tonnes! Would have taken way less time to use the skid steer, even though it was mostly shoveling it down a slope. Thanks again for all feed-back. Also thanks again for the previous offer of the free fuel pump--I ended up not liking the gravity fed setup too much because all of the gas leaked out, so I had to go with what I could get imediatley.
If it's surging you may have set the float too low. I'd check and reset that first. Check the cooling fins on the engine with a flashlight and make sure they aren't plugged with gunk. You may have to remove some of the tins to see, but if they are plugged, the engine will overheat. The front ones (right behind the operator) are usually neglected as they are the hardest to get at. The reset button on the air cleaner is a visual indicator on the condition of your air filter. They are used on big trucks as well. If the filter is plugged or restricted, it will trip to red. After it is cleaned or replaced, push the reset and it should go to green. Pretty reliable, but I would still pull the filter out once in awhile to check it just to be sure. Oh, until you get your fuel situation figured out, keep tabs on your engine oil. Gas has a way of finding it's way into the oil. Don't be afraid to change it when/if it smells like gas, otherwise it could be circulated through the engine and the oil won't be able to do it's job properly. Could lead to engine wear and bearing failure. So smell the dipstick when you check the oil. Sounds strange, but may save your engine. Hopefully you can get it sorted out!
 

jerry

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Joined
May 3, 2007
Messages
2,043
If it's surging you may have set the float too low. I'd check and reset that first. Check the cooling fins on the engine with a flashlight and make sure they aren't plugged with gunk. You may have to remove some of the tins to see, but if they are plugged, the engine will overheat. The front ones (right behind the operator) are usually neglected as they are the hardest to get at. The reset button on the air cleaner is a visual indicator on the condition of your air filter. They are used on big trucks as well. If the filter is plugged or restricted, it will trip to red. After it is cleaned or replaced, push the reset and it should go to green. Pretty reliable, but I would still pull the filter out once in awhile to check it just to be sure. Oh, until you get your fuel situation figured out, keep tabs on your engine oil. Gas has a way of finding it's way into the oil. Don't be afraid to change it when/if it smells like gas, otherwise it could be circulated through the engine and the oil won't be able to do it's job properly. Could lead to engine wear and bearing failure. So smell the dipstick when you check the oil. Sounds strange, but may save your engine. Hopefully you can get it sorted out!
Bob Melroe is right about the gas in the oil, you can end up with a cup or two of gas in there faster than you would think, sometimes just from flooding a engine. Is your electric pump the right pressure rating for the machine? If I remember right napa did not have a electric with a low enough rating for my 632 and too much could cause problems also.
 

OldMachinist

Well-known member
Joined
May 24, 2006
Messages
2,748
Bob Melroe is right about the gas in the oil, you can end up with a cup or two of gas in there faster than you would think, sometimes just from flooding a engine. Is your electric pump the right pressure rating for the machine? If I remember right napa did not have a electric with a low enough rating for my 632 and too much could cause problems also.
When I replace a mechanical pump with electric I put a pressure regulator in also. They cost around $30 and you can get them from most of the hot rod parts sites or Ebay.
 
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