2040 Start/Run Issue

[Mustang Guy]

Engine was just idling and it quit. Went to start it again and it would start but not run continuously when the key was returned to "run". It would start and run if I held the key in "start". I found that the 10 amp "lockout" fuse was blown so I replaced it with another 10 amp fuse. It then started and ran for about 30 seconds and there was a loud "pop" and it stopped. Then there was that all to familiar smell of burned electrical. I checked the fuse again and it was good, but it won't run now (back to the original issue). I pulled the instrument cluster and key switch. Switch tests good and there are no signs of short circuits or burned wiring. Could the control module be the problem? I've checked all the harnesses and they're good. I dug a little further behind the instrument cluster and found a timer (p/n 420-35877) that all the smoke leaked out of. This is supposed to be on a 2050, not a 2040. Hmm, do I have a 2040 with 2050 wiring? Can I just bypass this? Maybe I can do without it. I'm thinking I can jumper the two vertical terminals on the plug to take the timer out of the circuit, making it conform to the 2040 schematic. The pinouts for the control module remain the same. Thinking the module is good since the engine starts and will run as long as the key switch is held in the start position. Thoughts?

 

[farmshop]

I think the timer is to pick up the fuel shut off then it's held by lower voltage. At least that's how bobcat work and on them if you jump the timer things get real hot real quick.

 

[Mustang Guy]

I think the timer is to pick up the fuel shut off then it's held by lower voltage. At least that's how bobcat work and on them if you jump the timer things get real hot real quick.

Interesting, because that's apparently what happened. The timer fried all by itself right out of the blue. Do you have any idea what may have caused it to self destruct? Bad fuel solenoid maybe? Old age (it's a 2000 model year)? It occurred when I was outside the machine with the engine idling, like I have done a hundred times, and it just died. I'm trying to figure out what parts to buy. The fuel solenoid is initially opened by a signal from the starter relay and presumably held open by a signal from J3.D on the control module. What's confusing me is that the 2040 model doesn't use the timer according to the service manual schematic, but the 2050 does. Any idea who to call on this issue?

 

[Mustang Guy]

Interesting, because that's apparently what happened. The timer fried all by itself right out of the blue. Do you have any idea what may have caused it to self destruct? Bad fuel solenoid maybe? Old age (it's a 2000 model year)? It occurred when I was outside the machine with the engine idling, like I have done a hundred times, and it just died. I'm trying to figure out what parts to buy. The fuel solenoid is initially opened by a signal from the starter relay and presumably held open by a signal from J3.D on the control module. What's confusing me is that the 2040 model doesn't use the timer according to the service manual schematic, but the 2050 does. Any idea who to call on this issue?

Actually, I'm a long time member of this forum but had to re-register because I lost my info.

 

[Mustang Guy]

Actually, I'm a long time member of this forum but had to re-register because I lost my info.

Apparently this timer was added to all machines some time after 1998. I still don't quite understand it's purpose other than it has some function with the brakes. It's p/n has been superseded by #174983. Golden Eagle is ~$70, German-Bliss is ~$60. Both plus shipping.

 

[Mustang Guy]

Apparently this timer was added to all machines some time after 1998. I still don't quite understand it's purpose other than it has some function with the brakes. It's p/n has been superseded by #174983. Golden Eagle is ~$70, German-Bliss is ~$60. Both plus shipping.

Update: The 10 amp lockout fuse I thought was good, wasn't. I removed the timer, replaced the fuse, and it starts and runs continuously. Lift and tilt functions work normally, but the brakes won't release. I jumpered the two vertical posts on the timer plug with a 10 amp circuit breaker and it tripped immediately when I started the engine, no problem with start/run anymore. I have a new timer on order but now I'm reluctant to install it seeing that there is possibly a dead short in the brake solenoid circuit. I'll be away for a few days, but I'll check that when I return. I suppose it's possible that the brake solenoid went bad.

 

[Mustang Guy]

Update: The 10 amp lockout fuse I thought was good, wasn't. I removed the timer, replaced the fuse, and it starts and runs continuously. Lift and tilt functions work normally, but the brakes won't release. I jumpered the two vertical posts on the timer plug with a 10 amp circuit breaker and it tripped immediately when I started the engine, no problem with start/run anymore. I have a new timer on order but now I'm reluctant to install it seeing that there is possibly a dead short in the brake solenoid circuit. I'll be away for a few days, but I'll check that when I return. I suppose it's possible that the brake solenoid went bad.

Update: The timer is taking forever to get here, so I took the unused ROPS AUX circuit and installed a 10 amp circuit breaker and toggle switch and ran it down to the brake solenoid. I disconnected the brake solenoid connector, taking it out of the safety circuit, and tapped in my "jumper circuit" to the coil. This allows me to set the brakes any time I want to. The machine now works "normally" until I get all the right parts. The lighted brake switch doesn't light in red or green mode, but I'm getting the work done, just using extreme caution.

 

[Tazza]

Update: The timer is taking forever to get here, so I took the unused ROPS AUX circuit and installed a 10 amp circuit breaker and toggle switch and ran it down to the brake solenoid. I disconnected the brake solenoid connector, taking it out of the safety circuit, and tapped in my "jumper circuit" to the coil. This allows me to set the brakes any time I want to. The machine now works "normally" until I get all the right parts. The lighted brake switch doesn't light in red or green mode, but I'm getting the work done, just using extreme caution.

Glad you can at least use the machine while waiting on parts.
If it is a two coil style, pull and hold, ensure you don't keep power running to the pull coil or it will burn out. A momentary button for the pull will disengage the brake and the hold will keep it in place.

 

[Mustang Guy]

Glad you can at least use the machine while waiting on parts.
If it is a two coil style, pull and hold, ensure you don't keep power running to the pull coil or it will burn out. A momentary button for the pull will disengage the brake and the hold will keep it in place.

Thanks, that's good to know, but it's a simple two-wire isolated ground coil. But I'm still concerned about what caused the timer to fail. Maybe it was just time for it to fail (16 years? ok).

 

[Tazza]

Thanks, that's good to know, but it's a simple two-wire isolated ground coil. But I'm still concerned about what caused the timer to fail. Maybe it was just time for it to fail (16 years? ok).

Age, moisture, vibrations, any of which could have been it. I don't think it's uncommon for them to go bad.

 

[Mustang Guy]

Age, moisture, vibrations, any of which could have been it. I don't think it's uncommon for them to go bad.

The timer is potted solid state circuitry so shouldn't be affected by moisture and vibration. Oh well, it is what it is. Curious to note that even with the timer out of the circuit there is still a two or three second shut down delay when the seat switch is opened. Hmm. Must be something in the ECM doing it.

 

[Mustang Guy]

The timer is potted solid state circuitry so shouldn't be affected by moisture and vibration. Oh well, it is what it is. Curious to note that even with the timer out of the circuit there is still a two or three second shut down delay when the seat switch is opened. Hmm. Must be something in the ECM doing it.

Update: New timer arrived and apparently it's "new and improved" and US made. Installed it and all is well again.