T200 aux slow

[erikw]

Hey everyone new to the forum and I was looking for some help with my t200. I bought it a few months back with 2000hrs on it. I fixed, serviced, and painted it all to my liking but I seem to have an issue with the aux hydraulic system. I've run two different grapple buckets on it and they open very slow and close at a normal speed. But don't seem to have alot of gripping force. I used to have an 864 and the grapple worked much faster and seemed to hang onto anything. Called the local dealer and I felt like all they wanted to do was talk about the most expensive repairs they could think of...looking for ideas. Thanks in advanced! - Erik

 

[Fishfiles]

I presume your 200 has the manifold block on the boom which the quick couplers screw into , remove the quick couplers and check and if needed change the orings on them , Bobcat sells the orings as a repair kit

 

[erikw]

I presume your 200 has the manifold block on the boom which the quick couplers screw into , remove the quick couplers and check and if needed change the orings on them , Bobcat sells the orings as a repair kit

Im not sure if it would be considered a manifold block its more like a stamped piece of flat steel. the hard lines come up to it from the back side and have what look like compression fittings that convert it to something that looks like all-thread then it goes through the stamped plate steal and the quick couplers are screwed on the other side. Regardless i will remove the quick couplers and she what i can find. Don't know if it makes a different but the machine is standard flow (no high flow option). -Erik

 

[Fishfiles]

Im not sure if it would be considered a manifold block its more like a stamped piece of flat steel. the hard lines come up to it from the back side and have what look like compression fittings that convert it to something that looks like all-thread then it goes through the stamped plate steal and the quick couplers are screwed on the other side. Regardless i will remove the quick couplers and she what i can find. Don't know if it makes a different but the machine is standard flow (no high flow option). -Erik

sounds like you got the old style , that threaded thing you talk of must be bulkhead fitting which attaches to the plate that is attached to boom , one side has the coupler the other side connects to a steel tube , the orings I talked of are only on the newer style machines and the oring I talked of is notorious for blowing out and causing just what you mentioned , but that isn't your case

 

[Fishfiles]

sounds like you got the old style , that threaded thing you talk of must be bulkhead fitting which attaches to the plate that is attached to boom , one side has the coupler the other side connects to a steel tube , the orings I talked of are only on the newer style machines and the oring I talked of is notorious for blowing out and causing just what you mentioned , but that isn't your case

so I would think one of two problems most common , bad seal kit inside the grapplw cylinder or nut loose on end of rod or your gear pump is weak

 

[erikw]

so I would think one of two problems most common , bad seal kit inside the grapplw cylinder or nut loose on end of rod or your gear pump is weak

In that case I'm guessing the gear pump is getting weak. Only because I got that same result on two separate grapples. Would a simple pressure/flow test done by a dealer tell me for sure if its the gear pump? Also the dealer suggested a cracked valve body when I spoke with them.

 

[Fishfiles]

In that case I'm guessing the gear pump is getting weak. Only because I got that same result on two separate grapples. Would a simple pressure/flow test done by a dealer tell me for sure if its the gear pump? Also the dealer suggested a cracked valve body when I spoke with them.

the tools to test flow are a little expensive for a one time use , but to check the pressure is pretty cheap and will tell you what you want to know , all you need is a male quick coupler , which you could use off an attachmnet if you have one , an adapter fitting and a 3000 or 5000 psi pressure gauge , plug into the quick couple on front the machine , rev it wide open and engage the aux , you should be close to 2500 psi

 

[erikw]

the tools to test flow are a little expensive for a one time use , but to check the pressure is pretty cheap and will tell you what you want to know , all you need is a male quick coupler , which you could use off an attachmnet if you have one , an adapter fitting and a 3000 or 5000 psi pressure gauge , plug into the quick couple on front the machine , rev it wide open and engage the aux , you should be close to 2500 psi

Havnt had a chance to test anything on my t200 yet nut I brought it home tonight and while putting it in the shop I noticed some fun things about it. The lift cylinders slowly creep up while the machine is running. Also when the aux hydraulics are tribes on and I hit the toggle either way to open or close the grapple the lift cylinders go up. I'm guessing this means something is bleeding across in the valve body.

 

[Fishfiles]

Havnt had a chance to test anything on my t200 yet nut I brought it home tonight and while putting it in the shop I noticed some fun things about it. The lift cylinders slowly creep up while the machine is running. Also when the aux hydraulics are tribes on and I hit the toggle either way to open or close the grapple the lift cylinders go up. I'm guessing this means something is bleeding across in the valve body.

It usually means the aux hydraulics is on when that happens , either the aux plunger is stuck or voltage is being applied to the coil all the time

 

[erikw]

It usually means the aux hydraulics is on when that happens , either the aux plunger is stuck or voltage is being applied to the coil all the time

Got a chance to do some testing on my T200 tonight. With the gauge hooked to the female coupler on the skidloader instant 2800psi. When I hooked it to the male coupler I got a 1000psi and it would slowly and I mean slowly creep up to 2800. Id have to click the toggle on and off to make it climb. I forgot my service manual at home so that's as far as I got...

 

[Tazza]

Got a chance to do some testing on my T200 tonight. With the gauge hooked to the female coupler on the skidloader instant 2800psi. When I hooked it to the male coupler I got a 1000psi and it would slowly and I mean slowly creep up to 2800. Id have to click the toggle on and off to make it climb. I forgot my service manual at home so that's as far as I got...

Well that shows you have pressure, i'd lift the cab and swap the aux stems on the control block, see if the slow one moves to the other coupler. If so, you have a sticky stem. If it is not bent, you can pull them apart and clean them up. I had to do this to a brand new out of the box one!

 

[erikw]

Well that shows you have pressure, i'd lift the cab and swap the aux stems on the control block, see if the slow one moves to the other coupler. If so, you have a sticky stem. If it is not bent, you can pull them apart and clean them up. I had to do this to a brand new out of the box one!

Tazza, I ended up pulling the whole valve body out. How will I know if I have a bent stem vs a stuck one?

 

[erikw]

Tazza, I ended up pulling the whole valve body out. How will I know if I have a bent stem vs a stuck one?

Update...I've completely disassembled the valve body and bics valve. I haven't found anything that looks suspect but it does look like its time for fresh o-rings. I tested the solenoid. The bics valve solenoid reads 10 ohms. And the aux solenoids both read 3.5 ohms (seems low to me. If I read the book properly they should be between 5-8ohms)

 

[7LBSSMALLIE]

Update...I've completely disassembled the valve body and bics valve. I haven't found anything that looks suspect but it does look like its time for fresh o-rings. I tested the solenoid. The bics valve solenoid reads 10 ohms. And the aux solenoids both read 3.5 ohms (seems low to me. If I read the book properly they should be between 5-8ohms)

a port relief is installed on , all grapple instalations, or should be;; may this be the issue?

 

[Tazza]

a port relief is installed on , all grapple instalations, or should be;; may this be the issue?

If it was bent you can generally see it as you un-screw them from the control block. They aren't vertical, you see a wobble.
While it is out, not a bad idea to do the seals, easier to work on out of the machine.
The innards of the stems are pretty small, but not very complicated. They seem to stick when not used for a time.

 

[erikw]

If it was bent you can generally see it as you un-screw them from the control block. They aren't vertical, you see a wobble.
While it is out, not a bad idea to do the seals, easier to work on out of the machine.
The innards of the stems are pretty small, but not very complicated. They seem to stick when not used for a time.

Don't believe i saw any wobble in them while removing them from the block. I'm not quite sure how to disassemble the stems but I'm sure i can figure it out tomorrow. I applied 12volts to the solenoids and it was just so i could here the stems clicking but I'm guessing that even if their moving it may not be full stroke.

 

[erikw]

a port relief is installed on , all grapple instalations, or should be;; may this be the issue?

A port relief is installed. I'm not sure how to test it, also I'm not sure if that would only prevent it from working in one directions and not the other. I did but a master seal kit to reseal the valve body.

 

[erikw]

A port relief is installed. I'm not sure how to test it, also I'm not sure if that would only prevent it from working in one directions and not the other. I did but a master seal kit to reseal the valve body.

Update: I rebuilt the entire valve body and got no change. So then I switched the stems still no change. After fooling around with it for a while I figured out if you don't activate the BICS valve and just turn on the Aux hydraulics its works fine. The min you push the BICS button to move the machine or run the loader if goes back to slow....so confused. Any ideas?

 

[7LBSSMALLIE]

Update: I rebuilt the entire valve body and got no change. So then I switched the stems still no change. After fooling around with it for a while I figured out if you don't activate the BICS valve and just turn on the Aux hydraulics its works fine. The min you push the BICS button to move the machine or run the loader if goes back to slow....so confused. Any ideas?

thats a head scratcher? would go to bics lockout valve and check orings, usually indicated by bleed thru on lift and tilt. as in dead head tilt lift rises as to how this would affect aux? need a run thru (?take it out warm it up. check drive .stall against brake, dead head aux (should see 100 150 rpm drop) see it feel it smell it. whats differant? i myselef would do a direct pump test, as stated tools aint cheap, but this would be the first step in diagonastic tree, as in when dealing with hyd issues, confirm pump good. )now that thats outta the way( go deeper,