scat trak 1300c skid steer wont start

[cadillacderek]

hi all... i just bought a scat trak 1300c that was already broken down for my convenience..lol.. anyway it has the kubota motor in it (not sure witch model yet).. and it has 1800 hours on it. the guy i bought it from said that the guy he bought it from said it was running fine and all the sudden started smoking real bad and died and hasnt started since... i know its a lot of hear say but that the only story i have to go on. when i first got it, it cranked over real slow , till i noticed the right side stick was stuck in aux postion... i centered it where it should be and it cranks over normal now.. at this point it was just cranking over not really wanting to start.. tested the shut down solenoid and it was bad so i replaced it and it is doing its job now.. i do have voltage at the glow plug rail and all glow plugs tested ok glowing red all the way to tips. now i know it is getting fuel to the injectors as i have tried to bleed the system from there with no luck starting..i also opened the bleed screw. still no luck.. after doing those 2 things it is really close to starting and its now puffing black/grey smoke as i would expect ...just wont fire up??? is it possible for cam timing to be off or is it gear to gear driven?? same with pump timing, can it be off?? thanks in advance for any input

 

[cadillacderek]

sorry i forgot to mention that when i got it i ran a compression check while i was testing the glow plugs..... first test results (cold engine obviously) cylinder #1 was 110lbs "#2 175lbs #3 155lbs #4 300lbs after messing with it for a few days i did another compression check with much higher results #1 140lbs #2 265lbs #3 220lbs #4 325lbs (pegged needle on 300lb gauge? anything other then bad rings/pistons that could give these results?? only has 1800 hrs i wouldnt think its time for a rebuild yet?? but i suppose its possible?

 

[Tazza]

sorry i forgot to mention that when i got it i ran a compression check while i was testing the glow plugs..... first test results (cold engine obviously) cylinder #1 was 110lbs "#2 175lbs #3 155lbs #4 300lbs after messing with it for a few days i did another compression check with much higher results #1 140lbs #2 265lbs #3 220lbs #4 325lbs (pegged needle on 300lb gauge? anything other then bad rings/pistons that could give these results?? only has 1800 hrs i wouldnt think its time for a rebuild yet?? but i suppose its possible?

That compression is WAY low. It should be at least 350PSI, ideally it should be high 400s.
Check your valve clearance, it should be from memory about .008 inlet and exhaust. If that's set and still bad compression, the head has to come off and check it for cracks.
Its totally possible for the engine to be dead, if it got dusted it will have no compression, if it got too hot it could have cracked the head.
Sorry to give bad news

 

[cadillacderek]

That compression is WAY low. It should be at least 350PSI, ideally it should be high 400s.
Check your valve clearance, it should be from memory about .008 inlet and exhaust. If that's set and still bad compression, the head has to come off and check it for cracks.
Its totally possible for the engine to be dead, if it got dusted it will have no compression, if it got too hot it could have cracked the head.
Sorry to give bad news

Thanks for the reply... and no need to be sorry. i got a decent deal on it and was fully expecting it needing a rebuild when I got it... I did pull the valve cover and all the valves seem to have clearance and are moving... i was just hoping it may have been something simple that i over looked.. im not a diesel mechanic but I thought the compression was low myself... well I guess i'll tear the head off and see what I find... hopefully its just the head.. but if I gotta do the bottom end also, then so be it. .... also if you know of any "do's" or "don't s" about head removal you can think of would be apreciated.. possibly a link to a break down view of the engine /timing etc would be awesome... THANKS AGAIN FOR YOUR TIME!!

 

[cadillacderek]

Thanks for the reply... and no need to be sorry. i got a decent deal on it and was fully expecting it needing a rebuild when I got it... I did pull the valve cover and all the valves seem to have clearance and are moving... i was just hoping it may have been something simple that i over looked.. im not a diesel mechanic but I thought the compression was low myself... well I guess i'll tear the head off and see what I find... hopefully its just the head.. but if I gotta do the bottom end also, then so be it. .... also if you know of any "do's" or "don't s" about head removal you can think of would be apreciated.. possibly a link to a break down view of the engine /timing etc would be awesome... THANKS AGAIN FOR YOUR TIME!!

Well I got the head off... it looks to be in good shape as far as I can see... I would like to post pics but I don't see how to do it? After cleaning it off, I can't see any cracks... but I think im gonna have the local cylinder head shop look at it and see what they say.. and make sure its not warped or anything before I put it back together...the cylinder walls look good too don't see or feel any sign of scratches?? Could a bad head gasket cause that low of compression? Any other ideas? thanks

 

[skidsteer.ca]

Well I got the head off... it looks to be in good shape as far as I can see... I would like to post pics but I don't see how to do it? After cleaning it off, I can't see any cracks... but I think im gonna have the local cylinder head shop look at it and see what they say.. and make sure its not warped or anything before I put it back together...the cylinder walls look good too don't see or feel any sign of scratches?? Could a bad head gasket cause that low of compression? Any other ideas? thanks

Did you try your compression test with some oil in the cylinders to see if that changed the readings? Often if it is in the rings the oil will changes the readings where as valve problems often don't change any with oil.
Have you checked your crankcase oil for antifreeze or metalic particles that would indicate bad bearings or a head failure?
Usually a head gasket causing a compression problem will show a 0 reading between 2 ajacent cylinders
Strange if the comp is bad at those low hours the bores are not scored, I'm wondering if it somehw lost its coolant or overheated somehow?
Ken

 

[cadillacderek]

Did you try your compression test with some oil in the cylinders to see if that changed the readings? Often if it is in the rings the oil will changes the readings where as valve problems often don't change any with oil.
Have you checked your crankcase oil for antifreeze or metalic particles that would indicate bad bearings or a head failure?
Usually a head gasket causing a compression problem will show a 0 reading between 2 ajacent cylinders
Strange if the comp is bad at those low hours the bores are not scored, I'm wondering if it somehw lost its coolant or overheated somehow?
Ken

i didnt try the test with oil in the cylinders... i didnt even think about that, dang it, lol, its a little late now but i will try that if i still have low compression when i get it back together.. i did notice that the compression gets worse as i got toward the front of the motor (4,3,2,1)... and with the head off i can move the pistons with my fingers and get a little wiggle, (piston slap? i believe is the term?) ..and it seems to get progressively worse as you get to the front of the motor also.. so i wanna find someone to borrow the correct measuring tool from to see if the bore is ok... just to make sure... and yes, its defenatly possible that it overheated somehow.. it was used by a landscaping company and we all know employees dont always know when to shut down a hot motor..and i didnt see any metal, or any signs of coolant on the oil dipstick either, but wont know for sure till i drain it.... if you can think of anything else to check or look at please let me know, thanks

 

[Tazza]

i didnt try the test with oil in the cylinders... i didnt even think about that, dang it, lol, its a little late now but i will try that if i still have low compression when i get it back together.. i did notice that the compression gets worse as i got toward the front of the motor (4,3,2,1)... and with the head off i can move the pistons with my fingers and get a little wiggle, (piston slap? i believe is the term?) ..and it seems to get progressively worse as you get to the front of the motor also.. so i wanna find someone to borrow the correct measuring tool from to see if the bore is ok... just to make sure... and yes, its defenatly possible that it overheated somehow.. it was used by a landscaping company and we all know employees dont always know when to shut down a hot motor..and i didnt see any metal, or any signs of coolant on the oil dipstick either, but wont know for sure till i drain it.... if you can think of anything else to check or look at please let me know, thanks

The pistons need a little clearance, hopefully its not too much.
With the head off, its not a bad idea to get the bores measured. Then you know if theya re still round and within the wear limits. They need a bore stick to check it. Even a set of snap gauges and a micrometer would work.