Help with an S175

[ghs57]

With regard to the the pedal issue:

I recently had to replace both foot pedals in my S175. This included fabricating a new mounting plate for each and welding them in place. This was all due to the prior owner not fixing the leaky roof window and front door seal, which caused excessive corrosion of the pedals and mounts, which finally broke loose.

It's tight in there, but workable. Working from both above and below the pedal, and reaching in from the front opening (there is an opening on both sides when the arms are raised and supported out of the way) to the space below and in front of the pedals, I was able to install and adjust both pedals. I did this alone, and found that I was able from above to wedge a wrench against the sidewall of the cab space around the pedal to hold the bolt while I went in through the lower front opening with a wrench and was then able to tighten the nut. This should work in reverse to remove the bolts. Keep in mind that the adjustment for the pedal location must be perfectly aligned so that you have full range of motion on the pedal. Otherwise, you may not have full flow when toeing/heeling the pedal. Mine was off enough at first that I could not dump the bucket.

It's not the most fun I've had working on this machine, but the redesigned pedal makes it somewhat easier to do. See photo of the right hand foot pedal

 

[fortworth-cowboy]

Take a look at this replacement pedal. It seams they changed the location of holes with a increased diameter.
You may want to try and duplicate with a hole saw.

https://shop.bobcat.com/left-control-foot-pedal-7151868

That is for newer machines, not for the old machines.

 

[ghs57]

That is for newer machines, not for the old machines.

Fit my 2007. OP has a 2005, so there could be a difference - maybe worth a try anyway. The Bobcat parts catalog will indicate the proper pedal based upon SN.

 

[cavedweller29]

Also as one guy said Bobcat upgraded the pedal with larger holes. If you would hole saw the like a 3/4" hole between the four hole on the lower part of the pedal will that gain you access?

I hadn't noticed the change in pedals but cutting bigger holes isn't a bad idea and MAY, allow access to the nuts. It seems as though they are carriage bolts that lock into square holes in that undercarriage compartment. I can reach up under and feel the domed heads of what appear to be carriage bolts but, they are up in a groove so I can't see for sure. It seems ridiculous that bobcat would design them that way so that, if they get rusted, you can't get them out.

The pedal assembly doesn't seem to be attached to anything other than the actual frame. I don't see anything that can be removed as an entire assembly that includes the pedal assembly.

I tried a air hammer with a v notch chisel but the bolts are a little loose and they just vibrate around and it won't cut them. For such a seemingly simple problem, it really is a pain in the butt.

 

[cavedweller29]

With regard to the the pedal issue:

I recently had to replace both foot pedals in my S175. This included fabricating a new mounting plate for each and welding them in place. This was all due to the prior owner not fixing the leaky roof window and front door seal, which caused excessive corrosion of the pedals and mounts, which finally broke loose.

It's tight in there, but workable. Working from both above and below the pedal, and reaching in from the front opening (there is an opening on both sides when the arms are raised and supported out of the way) to the space below and in front of the pedals, I was able to install and adjust both pedals. I did this alone, and found that I was able from above to wedge a wrench against the sidewall of the cab space around the pedal to hold the bolt while I went in through the lower front opening with a wrench and was then able to tighten the nut. This should work in reverse to remove the bolts. Keep in mind that the adjustment for the pedal location must be perfectly aligned so that you have full range of motion on the pedal. Otherwise, you may not have full flow when toeing/heeling the pedal. Mine was off enough at first that I could not dump the bucket.

It's not the most fun I've had working on this machine, but the redesigned pedal makes it somewhat easier to do. See photo of the right hand foot pedal

Is the pedal assembly attached to the frame with carriage bolts? If so, I will just torch them off. I am afraid that they are attached in a manner that isn't easily replaced.

 

[ghs57]

Is the pedal assembly attached to the frame with carriage bolts? If so, I will just torch them off. I am afraid that they are attached in a manner that isn't easily replaced.

I cut my rusted ones out with my plasma cutter. My pedals were shot, so I just cut them off. They were mounted to a plate sort of attached to or above the axel housing, which were also rusted out and I cut out. Hopefully yours are not that bad. I also just cut the mounting bolts off. It takes some patience refitting the bolts, but there's no bobcat dumber than me, so I stayed with it until it was done. I used standard grade 8 bolts to attach the pedals. Carriage bolts should work fine if your holes are still square. Mine were round though, necessitating using a wrench on both top and bottom.

 

[cavedweller29]

Ok, I still am trying to decide what the problem is and I thought of something that may be causing the problem. There is a seal around the piston and a seal inside and outside the gland nut but, there wasn't when disassembled, nor is there now, anything inside the piston itself, to keep oil from being forced past the spacer and through the center hole of the piston. I have attached photos from the manual to show the pieces involved. Am I just tired and not thinking right or, am I correct in wondering how it holds pressure to begin with? What am I missing gentlemen...it doesn't seem like this assembly should hold any pressure?

 

[[email protected]]

Ok, I still am trying to decide what the problem is and I thought of something that may be causing the problem. There is a seal around the piston and a seal inside and outside the gland nut but, there wasn't when disassembled, nor is there now, anything inside the piston itself, to keep oil from being forced past the spacer and through the center hole of the piston. I have attached photos from the manual to show the pieces involved. Am I just tired and not thinking right or, am I correct in wondering how it holds pressure to begin with? What am I missing gentlemen...it doesn't seem like this assembly should hold any pressure?

It may seam like that as you look into it but it does. I think you are at your ropes end. Been there. So as for the many things mentioned one still sticks out to me. You said if I remember correctly that all was put in as taken out. OK the kit used was aftermarket. You said once done bucket would raise up but it drifted down a bit and stopped. Thinking air in the system. I think that it may be a worn or wear cylinder wall as small as that may be or the piston itself even though you put new seal and o rings in new it may not hold the pressure in that chamber. Drift down some and stop where the wear has not occured but this all is iffy. Now you have no leaks correct? So to me there are two possible things going on here lack of a good seal. OR Wear where it cannot seal. Or finally the spool valve that holds presure when in the neutral position. Even a bad cylinder repacking kit that it not large enough to seal to the cylinder walls.

 

[fortworth-cowboy]

Ok, I still am trying to decide what the problem is and I thought of something that may be causing the problem. There is a seal around the piston and a seal inside and outside the gland nut but, there wasn't when disassembled, nor is there now, anything inside the piston itself, to keep oil from being forced past the spacer and through the center hole of the piston. I have attached photos from the manual to show the pieces involved. Am I just tired and not thinking right or, am I correct in wondering how it holds pressure to begin with? What am I missing gentlemen...it doesn't seem like this assembly should hold any pressure?

Ok let me get this straight, I marked it on the picture, so you saying the sections I marked DO NOT have any type of seal right now?

 

[cavedweller29]

Ok let me get this straight, I marked it on the picture, so you saying the sections I marked DO NOT have any type of seal right now?

No, the seals are in place everywhere you indicated. There are no seals and none are shown in the bobcat parts manual to prevent fluid flow through the pistons center hole....the hole in which the rod goes through. The piston slides onto the rod and the nut is tightened against it to hold it there. It is metal against metal where the piston meets the shoulder of the rod and, where the nut touches the piston.

What prevents flow through there?

It seems as though fluid would flow freely through the center of the piston around the rod and out around the nut.

 

[fortworth-cowboy]

No, the seals are in place everywhere you indicated. There are no seals and none are shown in the bobcat parts manual to prevent fluid flow through the pistons center hole....the hole in which the rod goes through. The piston slides onto the rod and the nut is tightened against it to hold it there. It is metal against metal where the piston meets the shoulder of the rod and, where the nut touches the piston.

What prevents flow through there?

It seems as though fluid would flow freely through the center of the piston around the rod and out around the nut.

Tight fitting. Almost all Bobcat cylinders are like that. There is no seal and there was never a seal.
How tight did you tightened the nut? Did you use Loctite?

 

[cavedweller29]

Tight fitting. Almost all Bobcat cylinders are like that. There is no seal and there was never a seal.
How tight did you tightened the nut? Did you use Loctite?

I clamped the nut in a vise and used a 5 foot bar through the cylinder pin hole to get about 2 flats extra rotation from 1/2" breaker bar tight. I did use the orange loctite on it.

 

[fortworth-cowboy]

I clamped the nut in a vise and used a 5 foot bar through the cylinder pin hole to get about 2 flats extra rotation from 1/2" breaker bar tight. I did use the orange loctite on it.

Well, I do not know if that was enough torque on that nut. Did you checked these nylon bushing on the piston by any chance? If these are spinning the fluid will bypass underneath and most likely that is your issue.

 

[cavedweller29]

Well, I do not know if that was enough torque on that nut. Did you checked these nylon bushing on the piston by any chance? If these are spinning the fluid will bypass underneath and most likely that is your issue.

The manual said 600 lb/ft but, because I didn't have a socket big enough to tighten it on the bolt end, I couldn't measure the torque as you normally would.

I found a notation on an engineering forum that said on a similar sized fastener (I think theirs was 30mm) 100 lb/ft plus 2 and 1/2 flats would be around 700 lb/ft. I went to the point I thought my bar would fail and got about 2 flats extra rotation.

I can say it was nowhere near that tight when I disassembled it. I used the same bar to loosen it and it barely flexed the bar.

I guess I am a little surprised that a fairly small metal on metal seal is designed to contain that much pressure.

 

[fortworth-cowboy]

The manual said 600 lb/ft but, because I didn't have a socket big enough to tighten it on the bolt end, I couldn't measure the torque as you normally would.

I found a notation on an engineering forum that said on a similar sized fastener (I think theirs was 30mm) 100 lb/ft plus 2 and 1/2 flats would be around 700 lb/ft. I went to the point I thought my bar would fail and got about 2 flats extra rotation.

I can say it was nowhere near that tight when I disassembled it. I used the same bar to loosen it and it barely flexed the bar.

I guess I am a little surprised that a fairly small metal on metal seal is designed to contain that much pressure.

Did you checked the nylon bushings before assembling?

 

[cavedweller29]

Did you checked the nylon bushings before assembling?

If you are talking about the hard rubber coating on the piston, yes, I did check it and it looked fine all over. The hard plastic seal around the center was a little loose but, I figured that since it needed to be stretched to install it, it would relax back to its normal shape and tighten up again. I suspect I will just rebuild the cylinders again...I am 99% sure that it wasn't drifting before the rebuild so something must be wrong inside. Either the wrong parts or something not seated correctly. I am going to do the test on the cylinders first to make sure they are allowing fluid to bypass the seals. I almost hope that is the issue and a simple rebuild fixes it.

 

[fortworth-cowboy]

If you are talking about the hard rubber coating on the piston, yes, I did check it and it looked fine all over. The hard plastic seal around the center was a little loose but, I figured that since it needed to be stretched to install it, it would relax back to its normal shape and tighten up again. I suspect I will just rebuild the cylinders again...I am 99% sure that it wasn't drifting before the rebuild so something must be wrong inside. Either the wrong parts or something not seated correctly. I am going to do the test on the cylinders first to make sure they are allowing fluid to bypass the seals. I almost hope that is the issue and a simple rebuild fixes it.

You usually do not see anything wrong with these nylon bushings. You need to take both sides in both hands and try to turn them, if you can turn both or only one, you need to replace the piston. These nylon bushings are known to fail after a few years.

 

[cavedweller29]

You usually do not see anything wrong with these nylon bushings. You need to take both sides in both hands and try to turn them, if you can turn both or only one, you need to replace the piston. These nylon bushings are known to fail after a few years.

Oh, thats good to know. If the test shows fluid leaking through I will do another rebuild and check for that. Thanks, I appreciate it.