Coupler Block cartridges need help. Upgrade idea?

[Chalmers]

I have searched here but found nothing so am asking for some guidance.Included below are some details that may help others. I have a Bobcat 2011 ,T320 with "High Flow". It has 3 (not5)couplers on the Block,the small one is the Case Drain. One or more of the couplers on the Block are leaking. I suspect the O ring inside the male nose .All the external O rings and packing look good. So I decided to replace either all the O rings or if N/A , all the cartridges. I have failed to find any O ring kits for the cartridges. Any sources ? Just take the old seals to "Hose Man" ? I dismantled the male cartridge from the "Faster"Block ,it is a 46mm body-so the old style. The parts offered online muddle 46mm and 48mm so be careful just eyeballing replacements ! The other gotcha is there are 2 very similar looking Faster Blocks for 46/48mm bodies. The newer one is 4BD4FH. The older one on my machine is 4bd4 FF. The problem is the markings on the cartridges are very shallow and illegible .You are trying to see the difference between FH and FF ! I eventually found all the cartridges for my ....FF Block but noticed they are only rated at 24 gpm.The High Flow machines run up to 37gpm. Maybe that is why my big hydraulic breaker is wimpy ? So my idea is to simply upgrade to a new 4BD4FH Block complete with all 3 cartridges. The price is the same as buying replacement cartridges. WIll it work ???? How do I get a 4BD4FH with the larger 3/4" i.d. cartridges. Anyone tried this ? Thanks for any suggestions.

 

[Tazza]

I have too recently had this issue, my male fitting was leaking and i could see some green seal being squeezed out of the male fitting. I took the seal out and took it to my hydraulic seal shop, saldy it was not something they had so i was pretty well screwed as i damaged it removing it. I can't find any seal kits for them either, mine is the FF series.
Sooooooo, with the parts in hand, and the male coupler removed and in pieces, i asked if my seal shop could supply a backup and quad ring to replace the seal, he wasn't sure, but found a quad ring and backup to give the correct thickness and pretty close on the diameter, slightly tight, but it actually seemed to work. Have a chat to your local seal joint and see if they can supply you with a quad and backup ring to do ths job.
If your machine came with hiflow, surely they would have made sure the block was right.... Or so i'd have thought.

 

[Chalmers]

I have too recently had this issue, my male fitting was leaking and i could see some green seal being squeezed out of the male fitting. I took the seal out and took it to my hydraulic seal shop, saldy it was not something they had so i was pretty well screwed as i damaged it removing it. I can't find any seal kits for them either, mine is the FF series.
Sooooooo, with the parts in hand, and the male coupler removed and in pieces, i asked if my seal shop could supply a backup and quad ring to replace the seal, he wasn't sure, but found a quad ring and backup to give the correct thickness and pretty close on the diameter, slightly tight, but it actually seemed to work. Have a chat to your local seal joint and see if they can supply you with a quad and backup ring to do ths job.
If your machine came with hiflow, surely they would have made sure the block was right.... Or so i'd have thought.

I contacted Faster ,the manufacturer of the Coupler Block to ask about the confusion with 1/2" and 3/4" cartridges in the old/new Coupler Block on Bobcat High Flow equipment. I specifically asked if the later Coupler Block could be retrofitted and how to ensure it has High Flow cartridges. The questions are important because if you operate the Bobcat in High Flow mode but with restrictive Regular Flow cartridges, it will cause the attachment to perform badly and the hydraulic fluid will overheat. So far I have had no useful response from Faster. By contrast Stucchi were very helpful and explained their parts won't fit because it is a Faster exclusive to Bobcat. Seems odd that Faster who enjoys an exclusive parts agreement with Bobcat won't help by giving us their own part numbers so owners can buy the correct part from their dealers. To complicate the problem the part numbers on the old cartridges are very feint so it is difficult(without help from Faster) to know what parts are already fitted. Without this info, you can't buy the correct seal kit. There must be a simple solution to this and when I find it, I'll post it here.

 

[Tazza]

I contacted Faster ,the manufacturer of the Coupler Block to ask about the confusion with 1/2" and 3/4" cartridges in the old/new Coupler Block on Bobcat High Flow equipment. I specifically asked if the later Coupler Block could be retrofitted and how to ensure it has High Flow cartridges. The questions are important because if you operate the Bobcat in High Flow mode but with restrictive Regular Flow cartridges, it will cause the attachment to perform badly and the hydraulic fluid will overheat. So far I have had no useful response from Faster. By contrast Stucchi were very helpful and explained their parts won't fit because it is a Faster exclusive to Bobcat. Seems odd that Faster who enjoys an exclusive parts agreement with Bobcat won't help by giving us their own part numbers so owners can buy the correct part from their dealers. To complicate the problem the part numbers on the old cartridges are very feint so it is difficult(without help from Faster) to know what parts are already fitted. Without this info, you can't buy the correct seal kit. There must be a simple solution to this and when I find it, I'll post it here.

Sadly the big guys just seem to not care, they just want you to buy off he dealer it seems.

 

[Chalmers]

Sadly the big guys just seem to not care, they just want you to buy off he dealer it seems.

I have 2 possible work-arounds for High Flow machines: 1.Make sure the cartridges have the dash twelve(=3/4") For example FFH12M-46. I think this means a 46 mm cartridge with a 3/4" high flow port but when I contacted Summit Hydraulics to confirm ,they were not helpful. Summit emailed that they had no high flow fittings !Their Listings have the best photos of the dimensions of the cartridges, 2. Buy a complete N.O.S. 4BD4FH12 Coupler Block off Ebay for about $170 and assume that because it has the larger/newer 48mm cartridges it will also have 3/4" ports required for High Flow.Then try to get replacement O rings to repair your old Coupler Block. I have failed to find a part number for an O ring kit for any of the cartridges !Anyone got a #? The number "12" in the Coupler Block part number does not(??) mean 1/2"port diameter .It means dash twelve which is 12/16" =3/4", If you buy a Coupler Block ,make sure the fittings for the hydraulic lines match yours. Mine are JIC 3/4". Some Coupler Blocks have different (parallel or taper)fittings - look closely at the photos on EBay. If you can correct/confirm any of my assumptions please let the Forum know so we can help others in future.

 

[Tazza]

I have 2 possible work-arounds for High Flow machines: 1.Make sure the cartridges have the dash twelve(=3/4") For example FFH12M-46. I think this means a 46 mm cartridge with a 3/4" high flow port but when I contacted Summit Hydraulics to confirm ,they were not helpful. Summit emailed that they had no high flow fittings !Their Listings have the best photos of the dimensions of the cartridges, 2. Buy a complete N.O.S. 4BD4FH12 Coupler Block off Ebay for about $170 and assume that because it has the larger/newer 48mm cartridges it will also have 3/4" ports required for High Flow.Then try to get replacement O rings to repair your old Coupler Block. I have failed to find a part number for an O ring kit for any of the cartridges !Anyone got a #? The number "12" in the Coupler Block part number does not(??) mean 1/2"port diameter .It means dash twelve which is 12/16" =3/4", If you buy a Coupler Block ,make sure the fittings for the hydraulic lines match yours. Mine are JIC 3/4". Some Coupler Blocks have different (parallel or taper)fittings - look closely at the photos on EBay. If you can correct/confirm any of my assumptions please let the Forum know so we can help others in future.

when running in hi-flow mode, do you get a lot of heat at the couplers? If they don't heat up quickly, I don't think they are causing a big restriction. Hopefully that is the case and you don't need to upgrade them, but you will still need a new seal.
If anyone has a source of a new seal, I'd like to know too.

 

[Chalmers]

when running in hi-flow mode, do you get a lot of heat at the couplers? If they don't heat up quickly, I don't think they are causing a big restriction. Hopefully that is the case and you don't need to upgrade them, but you will still need a new seal.
If anyone has a source of a new seal, I'd like to know too.

I gave up on Faster and Summit - just replaced the original Coupler Block # 4BD4FF112 with the newer 4BD4FH Block. It has the larger cartridges for the male and female but the Case Drain is the same. You can easily confirm the difference in size between the cartridges- 42mm wrench /50mm wrench. Yes you will need a 42mm(or equivalent) because when you try to loosen the JIC hose connector nut it will be so corroded/tight that the cartridge will start unwinding. I bought a N.O.S. block off Ebay for $160. The dealer wants $400+ ! For about $120-$160 you can get the cartridges for the old FF Block. You will need to use the male JIC fitting for the Case Drain. It will need crud removing from the taper. It will also need a new "O" ring .I used 1/2" i.d.x0.1" (2mm) thick. Before you fit the new Block to the Z bracket on the Arm, consider removing it and fitting both bolts to the Z bracket. Then reattach the bracket with the bolts hanging loose but captive. It makes it much easier .Otherwise you will have to fish the nuts behind the bracket and you won't be happy when they drop off ! Just attach the nuts finger tight and then reattach the cleaned-up JIC hose fittings. You need to be able to wiggle the Block a little to ensure you align the male/female JIC fittings or you might cross-thread them and ...you won't be happy again ! If you are trying to find part numbers on the old FF cartridges- only the male has a visible number. If you are comparing the old/new couplers there are some irrelevant casting differences but the profile on the shoulder of the Male and Female is slightly different. Despite that difference, it works perfectly on my T320 machine/attachments. The next task is to try to get an "O" ring kit for the old FF Coupler Block. I think the leak is only from the nose of either/both the Male and female. The rest of the Cartridge "O" rings are probably O.K. but ...... I hope this helps others in future because eventually you are all going to have a leak at the Coupler Block. Please share any corrections or info on this subject here because I could find nothing any place else.

 

[Tazza]

I gave up on Faster and Summit - just replaced the original Coupler Block # 4BD4FF112 with the newer 4BD4FH Block. It has the larger cartridges for the male and female but the Case Drain is the same. You can easily confirm the difference in size between the cartridges- 42mm wrench /50mm wrench. Yes you will need a 42mm(or equivalent) because when you try to loosen the JIC hose connector nut it will be so corroded/tight that the cartridge will start unwinding. I bought a N.O.S. block off Ebay for $160. The dealer wants $400+ ! For about $120-$160 you can get the cartridges for the old FF Block. You will need to use the male JIC fitting for the Case Drain. It will need crud removing from the taper. It will also need a new "O" ring .I used 1/2" i.d.x0.1" (2mm) thick. Before you fit the new Block to the Z bracket on the Arm, consider removing it and fitting both bolts to the Z bracket. Then reattach the bracket with the bolts hanging loose but captive. It makes it much easier .Otherwise you will have to fish the nuts behind the bracket and you won't be happy when they drop off ! Just attach the nuts finger tight and then reattach the cleaned-up JIC hose fittings. You need to be able to wiggle the Block a little to ensure you align the male/female JIC fittings or you might cross-thread them and ...you won't be happy again ! If you are trying to find part numbers on the old FF cartridges- only the male has a visible number. If you are comparing the old/new couplers there are some irrelevant casting differences but the profile on the shoulder of the Male and Female is slightly different. Despite that difference, it works perfectly on my T320 machine/attachments. The next task is to try to get an "O" ring kit for the old FF Coupler Block. I think the leak is only from the nose of either/both the Male and female. The rest of the Cartridge "O" rings are probably O.K. but ...... I hope this helps others in future because eventually you are all going to have a leak at the Coupler Block. Please share any corrections or info on this subject here because I could find nothing any place else.

Thanks for the update.
I shoudl get pictures of the Orings i got for mine, i found the spares i bought and "lost" a few days ago. They are not perfect, but a whole lot better than the seal that was in there before.
I second the request, if anyone gets more info or the holy grail of an OEM seal kit for these, we'd love to hear about it.

 

[Chalmers]

Thanks for the update.
I shoudl get pictures of the Orings i got for mine, i found the spares i bought and "lost" a few days ago. They are not perfect, but a whole lot better than the seal that was in there before.
I second the request, if anyone gets more info or the holy grail of an OEM seal kit for these, we'd love to hear about it.

Seals for Faster Couplers I asked Faster for part numbers of their "O" ring kits because Bobcat no longer sell "O" ring kits for these couplers. This is the reply I got: "7251807----Faster part number SK FFH08 7251808---Faster part number SK FFH06 These are seal kits for male couplers only we do not offer them for the female flat face couplers." Obviously the female coupler will leak eventually - the "O" rings in the male/female are equally vulnerable to wear. So Faster can only solve part of the problem . The next issue is you have to buy from a Faster dealer. My recommendation is just go to your local Hydraulic Supply house.

 

[hart567]

Hello Chaimer, i am new in this Group. Hello, you cannot replace the seals in the coupling. The seal in the Valve is crimped. Nothing works there. The seal is then flushed out at high flow rates. The only improvement is a new Coupling. The new version 4BD4FH with 48mm thread size is better. It is best to compare the pressure loss graphic in the catalog. With the replacement Coupling you should pay attention to the country of origin. Faster's couplings are patented. Holmbury UK's also have a patent. The United Tyrekraft PVT company. LTD is also developing a new Couplings for the block. Best regards

 

[JK1983]

Hello Chaimer, i am new in this Group. Hello, you cannot replace the seals in the coupling. The seal in the Valve is crimped. Nothing works there. The seal is then flushed out at high flow rates. The only improvement is a new Coupling. The new version 4BD4FH with 48mm thread size is better. It is best to compare the pressure loss graphic in the catalog. With the replacement Coupling you should pay attention to the country of origin. Faster's couplings are patented. Holmbury UK's also have a patent. The United Tyrekraft PVT company. LTD is also developing a new Couplings for the block. Best regards

I recently purchased a 4BD4FH part online. While searching, I noticed that many sellers list this part but mention different equipment brands—some say it applies to John Deere, while others list Bobcat. However, as long as it's a 4BD4FH, shouldn't it be interchangeable regardless of the brand?