bobcat 463

[scuba623]

Hi all. I am new to the forum and i got a 463 bobcat for free from a guy i know. He said it ran great a year ago but when he grabbed a load of dirt and spun around he notice oil on the ground so he stopped it and parked on the side of his house. Sitting ever since. To make a long story short I now have the bobcat at my house and have been working on trying to get it started. I have never worked on a bobcat so this is all new to me. The bobcat turns over really nice (new rebuilt starter) and I get a little white smoke but it just cranks and does not start. I am wondering if it is electrical. When I turn the key to the on position while in the bobcat, three of the four lights behind my shoulder come one; 1. Seat 2. Seat Bar 3.Valve Lock but the traction light only blinks (four times then off for a bit then 4 more...). Anyway, if there are any ideas you guys might have for me it would be greatly appreciated. PS. I believe the oil leak is a missing bolt on right hand side (when standing on the bucket looking back). When I look in there i can see fluid (hydraulic??). There is a lot of old oil, the only spot on the bobcat really, all around the hole.

 

[Tazza]

First off you need to ensure there is engine and hydraulic oil in the machine. Check the coolant to ensure it has cooling. If they are ok and the engine cranks and puffs white smoke i would suspect your glow plugs are not running. Turn the key to the left first and hold it for say 15 seconds, turn to the right to start it should fire rite up. If not check your glow plugs, you can even run a wire from the glow plug rail to the +ve on the battery to warm them up then crank and it should start. Remove the wire as you don't want them running all the time or they will burn out!
When you have it running you can look for the leak.
The easy way to tell what oil it is is if its a honey colour its hydraulic/hydrostatic if its black its engine.
The lights are your BICS system, they will lite up and stay on when the sender senses they are ok. Like the seat bar down, the light should be on. I don't know what the error code with the blinking lights are though, could be a bad solenoid or a short its detecting.

 

[mistersweeper]

I think you should just give ME the bobcat and I will take care of it, all your worries will be gone !

 

[Tazza]

I think you should just give ME the bobcat and I will take care of it, all your worries will be gone !

hehe i was thinking that too, but i had to be nice

 

[OldMachinist]

hehe i was thinking that too, but i had to be nice

The oil leak may be the filter drain plug if the 463 is simular to my 453. You need to lift cab and see if the missing bolt(1/8" pipe plug) screws into the filter housing. To do that open the rear door so the cab doesn't hit the exhaust and remove the nuts and washers from the front of the cab. There's on on each side right by the uprights. Then lift the cab up from the front, it is hinged and has gas struts. If the oil leak isn't from the filter block you should be able to see where it is from now.

 

[Tom Brown]

The oil leak may be the filter drain plug if the 463 is simular to my 453. You need to lift cab and see if the missing bolt(1/8" pipe plug) screws into the filter housing. To do that open the rear door so the cab doesn't hit the exhaust and remove the nuts and washers from the front of the cab. There's on on each side right by the uprights. Then lift the cab up from the front, it is hinged and has gas struts. If the oil leak isn't from the filter block you should be able to see where it is from now.

Scuba, is your Bobcat gas or diesel? I'm pretty sure the 463 came either way, although any I've seen around here are gas. If diesel, I would make sure you haven't over-filled the crank case with oil. Also, make sure you have the correct oil. Lastly, it could be your injection timing but that seems extremely unlikely. If gas, I'd check the air cleaner.

 

[OldMachinist]

Scuba, is your Bobcat gas or diesel? I'm pretty sure the 463 came either way, although any I've seen around here are gas. If diesel, I would make sure you haven't over-filled the crank case with oil. Also, make sure you have the correct oil. Lastly, it could be your injection timing but that seems extremely unlikely. If gas, I'd check the air cleaner.

For my 453 4 flashes on the BICS traction lock light means the Traction lock pull coil circuit is open. I uploaded a scan of the BICS troubleshooting chart here. http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg49/calfranch/Bobcat/BICS_Troubleshooting_Chart.jpg
I would try to get the engine running before worrying about the traction lock.

 

[OldMachinist]

For my 453 4 flashes on the BICS traction lock light means the Traction lock pull coil circuit is open. I uploaded a scan of the BICS troubleshooting chart here. http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg49/calfranch/Bobcat/BICS_Troubleshooting_Chart.jpg
I would try to get the engine running before worrying about the traction lock.

Some more things I thought of.
Is the diesel fuel fresh or is the stuff that been sitting in it for over a year?
The glow plugs may be on a separate switch the keyswitch panel. See if there is a momentary rocker switch that has picture that looks like a coil of wire. If so this is your glow plug preheat and you have to hold it on depending on how cold the engine is. About 5 seconds when its 50-70 degrees F. The starting procedure page is uploaded here. http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg49/calfranch/Bobcat/Bobcat_Starting.jpg

 

[scuba623]

To start off, Tazza; the oil level and hydraulic level are both good on the dipstick. It is kind of wierd b/c i thought he said he(the previous owner) had an oil leak but the levels are all ok..?? Also i will try the wire trick to the glow plugs tonite and update. Mistersweeper; LOL i like your comment but i think of this as my introduction into skidsteers, once i drove one i had to get one so i finally did. I ran a Case, not sure of the size, on a farm in the midwest for a few weeks and feel in love with skidsteers. Tom Brown; My bobcat is a diesel. Has a Kubota Engine Three cylinder Old Machinist; Will the engine start with that light blinking or is there some kind of shutoff if there is a problem with a sensor or circuit?? The diesel was bad but i emptied the tank and put new stuff in. And there is a rocker switch for the glow plugs and i tried to hold that for a few seconds but it didnt seem to help and i live in Phoenix AZ and the temp has always been around 80-100 degrees when im starting it so do i still need to run the glow plugs or not? Lastly, is there a good way to test compression? A mechanic buddy of mine said i could bolt on air compressor fitting where the glow plugs thread in and test it that way. Otherwise if i crank the engine over with the flywheel by hand should that build up compression or not necessarily? Thanks for all the advice and ideas. It is awesome to have you guys give some time to this for me...MUCH APPRECIATED

 

[Tazza]

To start off, Tazza; the oil level and hydraulic level are both good on the dipstick. It is kind of wierd b/c i thought he said he(the previous owner) had an oil leak but the levels are all ok..?? Also i will try the wire trick to the glow plugs tonite and update. Mistersweeper; LOL i like your comment but i think of this as my introduction into skidsteers, once i drove one i had to get one so i finally did. I ran a Case, not sure of the size, on a farm in the midwest for a few weeks and feel in love with skidsteers. Tom Brown; My bobcat is a diesel. Has a Kubota Engine Three cylinder Old Machinist; Will the engine start with that light blinking or is there some kind of shutoff if there is a problem with a sensor or circuit?? The diesel was bad but i emptied the tank and put new stuff in. And there is a rocker switch for the glow plugs and i tried to hold that for a few seconds but it didnt seem to help and i live in Phoenix AZ and the temp has always been around 80-100 degrees when im starting it so do i still need to run the glow plugs or not? Lastly, is there a good way to test compression? A mechanic buddy of mine said i could bolt on air compressor fitting where the glow plugs thread in and test it that way. Otherwise if i crank the engine over with the flywheel by hand should that build up compression or not necessarily? Thanks for all the advice and ideas. It is awesome to have you guys give some time to this for me...MUCH APPRECIATED

To test compression use the glow plug holes with an adaptor. Disconnect the fuel solenoid, you don't want it possibly starting when testing. Rotating the fly wheel won't give you enough speed to test anything. You did mention there was smoke but didn't start, ths means you are getting comopression but not sure how much. You will still need to glow it when you start unless its a real warm day, if you crank long enough and your compression is good it will eventually fire but glowing takes a lot of stress off the starter.

 

[OldMachinist]

To test compression use the glow plug holes with an adaptor. Disconnect the fuel solenoid, you don't want it possibly starting when testing. Rotating the fly wheel won't give you enough speed to test anything. You did mention there was smoke but didn't start, ths means you are getting comopression but not sure how much. You will still need to glow it when you start unless its a real warm day, if you crank long enough and your compression is good it will eventually fire but glowing takes a lot of stress off the starter.

The engine should start as long as the fuel shut off solenoid is working, you have fuel, intake air and compression. When you turn the key to the on position you should hear the fuel solenoid click open. The traction lock just won't let you move it once it starts.

 

[scuba623]

Ok here is my update. I did the wire trick like you suggested Tazza and now it cranks over really nice and ALOT of black smoke. Now the engine when it is trying to start cranks for a bit then faster and the tractor shakes a little the whole time pumping black smoke out of the exhaust. Also, with the wire trick does that mean the wire to the glow plugs is not giving enough volts, current, amps...whatever?? Or why does the wire trick work like it does? As a last note, I have a fuel bulb over the tank that i can squeeze to build pressure. It seems like the bulb is at about 3/4 pressure if that makes sense. Does this sound right or should the bulb stay hard?

 

[scuba623]

Ok here is my update. I did the wire trick like you suggested Tazza and now it cranks over really nice and ALOT of black smoke. Now the engine when it is trying to start cranks for a bit then faster and the tractor shakes a little the whole time pumping black smoke out of the exhaust. Also, with the wire trick does that mean the wire to the glow plugs is not giving enough volts, current, amps...whatever?? Or why does the wire trick work like it does? As a last note, I have a fuel bulb over the tank that i can squeeze to build pressure. It seems like the bulb is at about 3/4 pressure if that makes sense. Does this sound right or should the bulb stay hard?

Forgot to add that it still doesnt start but i feel like im getting somewhere. Should i keep trying or will i break something?? When diesels sit for awhile is it always hard to get them started again?

 

[OldMachinist]

Forgot to add that it still doesnt start but i feel like im getting somewhere. Should i keep trying or will i break something?? When diesels sit for awhile is it always hard to get them started again?

Did you check the air filter and housing for obstructions(mouse nest, Mud dabber nests)? Never know what crawled in there in a year of sitting.

 

[scuba623]

Did you check the air filter and housing for obstructions(mouse nest, Mud dabber nests)? Never know what crawled in there in a year of sitting.

Yeh. The air filter was full of dust when i got it and I emptied out the dust catcher and air cleaned the air filter put it back together.

 

[mllud]

Did you check the air filter and housing for obstructions(mouse nest, Mud dabber nests)? Never know what crawled in there in a year of sitting.

Can you get soneone to spray some WD40 into the intake while cranking. The propane thats used as an accelerant gives a little boost. If it doesnt work right away I wouldnt continue to use the WD40
With all that black smoke its trying. You can crank as long as your starter isnt getting too hot Mike

 

[scuba623]

Can you get soneone to spray some WD40 into the intake while cranking. The propane thats used as an accelerant gives a little boost. If it doesnt work right away I wouldnt continue to use the WD40
With all that black smoke its trying. You can crank as long as your starter isnt getting too hot Mike

I tried some WD40 with my wife cranking it over for me. Sprayed a pretty good stream but it didnt seem to do a whole lot...maybe turned over a little faster. Got a little worried that i would break something if i keep cranking but i will keep trying and update later.

 

[scuba623]

I tried some WD40 with my wife cranking it over for me. Sprayed a pretty good stream but it didnt seem to do a whole lot...maybe turned over a little faster. Got a little worried that i would break something if i keep cranking but i will keep trying and update later.

Just an update. Still cranks the same with black smoke but doesnt start. Any ideas? Should i try a compression test or is that not the problem?

 

[Tazza]

Just an update. Still cranks the same with black smoke but doesnt start. Any ideas? Should i try a compression test or is that not the problem?

Black smoke is excessive fuel, white is un-burnt fuel.
The engine is backwards in that machine isn't it? as in the injector pump is not facing out? I'm starting to suspect your injectors may be stuck a little, this would cause black smoke as its not being sprayed in a nice mist. I would also do the compression test just to be sure. You should get 400 or more PSI.
The glow plug wire trick works because there could be a problem with the relay that operates the glow plugs. It won't hurt anything if you leave it glowing while cranking too, just don't leave it on for too long after its started.