Very very stuck on this pump im going mental.

[Maddy]

Hi Guys My little skid steer loader is a Owatana Mustang 441 with a Perkins 4.108 motor. Pump model # PH25E500/6 I have the timing cover off and have lined up all of the gear dots and double dots, cam, crank , idler and fuel pump. I have worked out lining them up gives me the required 21d Btdc. When these are all in line with the crank keyway pointing upwards showing #1 piston is near tdc, I look in the inspection window of the pump and i should see the letter "A" . With maximum adjustment of the pump timing gear and the pump itself I can only manage to get between "B" and "C" (the pump counts down from H,G,F,E,D,C,B,A ) So, the gears are lined up, the drive shaft from the gears to the pump only goes in one way, so i cant stuff that up, why doesn't the pump time at the inject mark of "A"? Please help i have been at it for a week and doing my head in. Sincerely Maddy

 

[farmshop]

Are you at top dead center on compression stroke? If you turn it over 1 revolution what happens

 

[Maddy]

Are you at top dead center on compression stroke? If you turn it over 1 revolution what happens

Hi, I did this :::: Remove the inspection plate on the fuel pump enabling the rotor to be seen. (Fig. N.16). 8. With No. 1 piston at the static timing point on its compression stroke, the scribed line on the rotor marked 'A' (for hydraulically governed engines) or 'c' (for mechanically governed engines) should align with the straight edge or scribed line on the timing circlip.::::::: But it aligns more between B and C . The book says "C" alignment is for mechanically governed pumps. Im sure mine is a Hydraulically governed engine as it has no external pump linkages or such. PLEASE correct me if im wrong

 

[Maddy]

Hi, I did this :::: Remove the inspection plate on the fuel pump enabling the rotor to be seen. (Fig. N.16). 8. With No. 1 piston at the static timing point on its compression stroke, the scribed line on the rotor marked 'A' (for hydraulically governed engines) or 'c' (for mechanically governed engines) should align with the straight edge or scribed line on the timing circlip.::::::: But it aligns more between B and C . The book says "C" alignment is for mechanically governed pumps. Im sure mine is a Hydraulically governed engine as it has no external pump linkages or such. PLEASE correct me if im wrong

Sorry for not precisely answering, I have the piston at 21 degrees before tdc on the compression stroke, If i were to turn a revolution it will exhaust and intake again. Maybe it had a mechanically governed pump now its got a hydraulic one, omg im so lost.

 

[Tazza]

Sorry for not precisely answering, I have the piston at 21 degrees before tdc on the compression stroke, If i were to turn a revolution it will exhaust and intake again. Maybe it had a mechanically governed pump now its got a hydraulic one, omg im so lost.

I assume there are no gears on the injector pump drive to be able to skip a tooth or two to get it to show the A? You have a great grip on how everything works, i bet it's something simple.
You have everything else lined up, i don't get why the pump has to be so difficult. As i have never worked on a perkins, i can't give any advise. My pumps were just line up dots, then happy days.
The only other option is to call up a perkins dealer in your area and ask if they know what to do? As surely after it's all up and running again, you'll need spares from said dealer.... Or so they may be made to assume? thermostat, water pump, oil, filters? Not all dealers are happy to give out their time, but some do.

 

[Maddy]

I assume there are no gears on the injector pump drive to be able to skip a tooth or two to get it to show the A? You have a great grip on how everything works, i bet it's something simple.
You have everything else lined up, i don't get why the pump has to be so difficult. As i have never worked on a perkins, i can't give any advise. My pumps were just line up dots, then happy days.
The only other option is to call up a perkins dealer in your area and ask if they know what to do? As surely after it's all up and running again, you'll need spares from said dealer.... Or so they may be made to assume? thermostat, water pump, oil, filters? Not all dealers are happy to give out their time, but some do.

Hi , Im 99% sure the pump is a straight drive from one end to the other. Yesterday i set the gear timing marks for the cam/idler and crank and manually reset the pump gear so that "A" was showing in the pump window, basically reassembled and lots of smoke but no fire. So back to basics, I know that #1 is at TDC when the woodruff Key is at the top in the harmonic balancer, so i disconnect #1 injector line and the thing squirted at BDC (or very close to it). So i reset the pump timing to line up the dots at the timing gears and bugger me, it squirts at tdc ( close to it as this is only rough) . But here's the thing, the letter " A" doesn't line up in the pump viewing window as per the instructions in the manual, its closer to between "C and B" . So to settle my ocd, im putting it down to "It must be another pump" . Reassembly today and we will see how skiddy goes Thanks Lots Maddy OH And om going to ring my Perkins dealer and politely ask WHAT THE FROCK ! LOL Have a nice day

 

[Tazza]

Hi , Im 99% sure the pump is a straight drive from one end to the other. Yesterday i set the gear timing marks for the cam/idler and crank and manually reset the pump gear so that "A" was showing in the pump window, basically reassembled and lots of smoke but no fire. So back to basics, I know that #1 is at TDC when the woodruff Key is at the top in the harmonic balancer, so i disconnect #1 injector line and the thing squirted at BDC (or very close to it). So i reset the pump timing to line up the dots at the timing gears and bugger me, it squirts at tdc ( close to it as this is only rough) . But here's the thing, the letter " A" doesn't line up in the pump viewing window as per the instructions in the manual, its closer to between "C and B" . So to settle my ocd, im putting it down to "It must be another pump" . Reassembly today and we will see how skiddy goes Thanks Lots Maddy OH And om going to ring my Perkins dealer and politely ask WHAT THE FROCK ! LOL Have a nice day

With the smoke but no starting means you are real close, is there any adjustment in the pump mount to rotate it to retard or advance it to get it right?
I thought my kubotas are meant to be at 15btdc for fuel injection? So if you can adjust it to get it so when you rotate it, you see the fuel squirt at the right time.
Sadly, it does seem you need to gice your dealer a slap up side the head if they supplied you the wrong pump.

 

[Maddy]

With the smoke but no starting means you are real close, is there any adjustment in the pump mount to rotate it to retard or advance it to get it right?
I thought my kubotas are meant to be at 15btdc for fuel injection? So if you can adjust it to get it so when you rotate it, you see the fuel squirt at the right time.
Sadly, it does seem you need to gice your dealer a slap up side the head if they supplied you the wrong pump.

Thanks Tazza, yea I went back to basics and got it close, when it squirts its no where near the timing mark on the pump, slowly getting it back together and we will see how it goes.

 

[Tazza]

Thanks Tazza, yea I went back to basics and got it close, when it squirts its no where near the timing mark on the pump, slowly getting it back together and we will see how it goes.

I'm hoping you get there, i bet it's frustrating...