Small machine suggestions. Max machine width 40", speedy (6 kph/4 mph or more), good side slope ability, wider mower/rotary cutter, snowblower, etc.

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Thomas173

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I've had a midsized wheeled skid steer for years and it has worked well for my needs (bucket, toothed bucket, snow bucket, forks).

Now I want something for trail work.
It needs to pass through approx an 42" opening.
The trail is about 12 km/8 miles long so I want a machine that has some speed, that travels at 6 kph or 4 mph.
The trail has some side slope so side slope ability is needed as it will be working along the trail edge.
The wider the mower/rotary cutter/etc. the better. I can lift the mower to pass through the narrow 42" openings. Ideally, something like a 5'-ish/60"-ish mower would mean two passes to cut, going there and coming back. A 40"-ish mower would require an extra pass and therefore take twice as long to cut.

Also, if it is functional to use the narrow machine in winter for clearing my driveway (with a snowblower and/or snow bucket) then I would sell my older wheeled skid steer.

Please let me know your machine suggestions. Thanks.
 

brdgbldr

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Is there a better place to post my question?
I think you're looking for something too specific. No narrow skid steer does well on side slopes.

I think your best bet would be a mini track loader like the Bobcat MT100.

I'm not sure how wide of a mower you could run. The auxiliary only pumps 12 gal/min so you would need a mower that would run on standard flow. They recommend only a 44" mower for this machine so you would have to talk to a dealer to see what the widest you could run on it.

There are also other companies that make similar machines that you could look into.
 

mrbb

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honestly I doubt there is anything that fits your needs in production today, 40 inch wide is very narrow, add a rider and your getting top heavy already which means tippy
all the more so on any slope/side hill, add in no real suspension on things made and you can tip pretty easy when you run over a log, stick, rock or like on a side hill

the most stable machine I know of for work like your asking is a ventrac mowers with its duel wheel kits(see link below) there NOT cheap but they are hearty machines with good reps for long life and ability to side hill the best on most production made products out there!
they have snow removal add on too , so can be a all season machne with other options as well!

BUT there WAY wider than 40 inches, a standard is 48 wide without the duel wheel kit

if I was you I think I;'d be looking at finding a way to make the entrance to your trails wider, , as in maybe a double gate where both sides can be opened when needed!




if your trails were NOt so long, I'd of recopmmended a wlak behind bush cutter, but 98 miles of walking behind one of them and youi'd go nuts or you'd end u in really good shape after doing a few times! , HAHA!
but they do work and will side hill safely
 

mrbb

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here is a direct link to the options available for them,
a lot of options, NOT cheap, but again they are known to last a long time
and the duel wheel kit makes them as safe or safer than anything else I know of




 
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Thomas173

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Thanks brdgbldr. I was wondering about a Bobcat MT100. I'll call the dealer and ask about how wide a mower it can run, i.e. can it run a wider than recommended mower.

Thanks mrbb. When I saw a Ventrac in the closest city to me mowing a ditch I looked them up and I agree, they look great, especially with the additional dual wheels. I never inquired about a price because they are too wide for my needs.
I hadn't thought about the lack of suspension and tippy-ness. Good point. I do know who tippy a skid steer can be when you accidentally ramp up a stump or over a hole.

I didn't consider a walk behind bush cutter because again it would have to be narrow and then that's too many passes to cut the trail width but good point about them being side hill safe.

I know what the problem is, the narrow openings. I put in a multiyear gate proposal but that's not luckily going to happen anytime soon.

I'm only familiar with traditional ride-in wheeled skid steers, not the stand-on-the-rear tracked machines. Would a tracked machine like the MT100 be better than a wheeled skid steer like the S70?
 

brdgbldr

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Thanks brdgbldr. I was wondering about a Bobcat MT100. I'll call the dealer and ask about how wide a mower it can run, i.e. can it run a wider than recommended mower.

Thanks mrbb. When I saw a Ventrac in the closest city to me mowing a ditch I looked them up and I agree, they look great, especially with the additional dual wheels. I never inquired about a price because they are too wide for my needs.
I hadn't thought about the lack of suspension and tippy-ness. Good point. I do know who tippy a skid steer can be when you accidentally ramp up a stump or over a hole.

I didn't consider a walk behind bush cutter because again it would have to be narrow and then that's too many passes to cut the trail width but good point about them being side hill safe.

I know what the problem is, the narrow openings. I put in a multiyear gate proposal but that's not luckily going to happen anytime soon.

I'm only familiar with traditional ride-in wheeled skid steers, not the stand-on-the-rear tracked machines. Would a tracked machine like the MT100 be better than a wheeled skid steer like the S70?
I think that the mini tracked machine would be much more stable on a side slope (however I have seen these turned on there sides by operators not paying attention). The tracks put the center of gravity lower than a tired machine. There is no cab so you could jump off if there was an accident. However, a tracked machine may want to slide sideways since the weight is spread out more. You would have to look into the different styles of tracks.

The narrow skid steers like the S70 are very tippy. Since it is only 36" wide, you could look into putting wider tires on it. You could also look into putting axle weights on it to lower its center of gravity. It only has a 9.8 gal/min auxiliary flow rate so I don't know how big of a mower you could get on it.
 

cm2ncfsu2

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Could a set of duals be bolted on to an S70 after you get through the gate and unbolted before you exit? You'd need to gab the dual wheel adaptors but that shouldn't be too hard. I filled the tires (8.5x23 versus the 5.70 narrow tires to go through a 40" gate) of my 463 with windshield washer fluid. It is much less tippy now. Filling the tires might be a help.
 

mrbb

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again even if you get into a small skid steer they will NOT be very safe ion any side hill, be with wheels or tires
a s if you should run over a log stick, rock, again, they will tip very easily
and then keep in mind that if you have a track loader and be on side hills any amount of time, the tracks themself, will want to track OFF, due tio most track loaders by design are not made for side hilling, the weight of machine causes tracks to want to run off them!, unless you stay on top of track tension and even then, few are great at staying on , on side hill(the new ASV models have track designs for side hills, and are the only ones I know of, they even offer a guarantee they will stay on, and if they should come off they will come out to a site where machine is and put them back on for you for free! But there I believe ONLY on larger machines!

another more stable option over a skid steer will maybe be a zero turn mower, or a stand on mower like a bobcat Zr4000
they have lower center of gravity, and can be driven normally faster than traditional designed mowers, they have some stand up models that have tracks over wheels, too, but again, side hills and tracks, , normally don't go that great, or at least on rubber tracked vehicles!
LASTLY< have you maybe considered an ATV with a tow behind mower set up?




ATv's have suspensions on them, to help be more stable when riding over objects, and a smaller ATV will typically be lower in size, , they don;t take much HP to pull a small mower, and will tend to have lower center of gravity, but then you will be making lots of passes, and they will have there own set of issues with side hillsas the mowers will want to drift down hill and not stay in line with the way, gravity deal there?

and again, even if you went with something like a compact small skid steer that would fit thru your opening of 40 inches, I highly doubt they would have the flow rating to run a brush hog of any size, most 50-60 inch need 30+gpm flow rates, and things like a S70 have less than 10 GPM (a M100 is like 12 I believe)
so they would again be limited to pretty small mowers, making you need to make many passes, and be very tippy!

and VERY Very lastly here, , maybe try looking into gang mower set up, like some golf courses use, NOT sure how they would work on ruff cutting , but they would allow you to get a ATV thru the gate and be able to tow 2-3 36 inch wide mowers, making you have to do less passes, something like this, you can assemble on other side of entrance/

or this

and I have NO clue how they would work on thicker taller grass/weeds, but an option maybe to look into more?

or back to this?

your again , better off begging who is needed to get a larger opening to access things, tell them its a safety issue/liability deal, , ,
as that normally gets things moving faster! fear of a law suit if someone fell or got hurt and help couldn;t get to them easily!
as if someone got hurt HOW would emergency vehicles get in?? as an example!
 

foton

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gravely use to make a mower with a removeable sulky had a 30 and 40 inch deck and alot of other attachments , was able to have dual wheels too. but with safety guidelines most likely now there out of production, but they were built like tanks so a real good used one might not be out of the question. but it would be worth the look.
 
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Thomas173

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Excellent informative information.
I figured a tracked machine would have a lower centre of gravity as brdgbldr pointed out and also added the issue of side slope sliding--look for anti side sliding tracks options. Related I'll look up the ASV re side hill tracks staying on the machine including if they are available on smaller machines. Thanks mrbb.
Wider tires is another useful idea as are axle weights. Thanks brdgbld. I know of filled tires but the idea didn't readily come to mind so thanks cm2ncfsu2. I didn't know you can get dual tires for a skid steer.
I'll look up the difference flow rates for tracked vs wheeled machines re mower attachments.
I didn't know Bobcat makes zero turn and stand on mowers. Another thing to look up. Thanks again mrbb. Also I had looked briefly at an ATV with a tow behind mower. Most ATVs are too wide but I'm sure there are smaller/narrower ones available. I'll check the options including speed that a mower can be towed at.

Lastly (mrb's point), The ganged mowers I've seen are all for finishing. I hadn't thought of an ATV gang mower option. I had looked for unsuccessful a cat wing style mower with fold up and down side mower decks but I couldn't find anything narrow enough but it's easy to find much larger cat wing mowers like you see mower the highway ditches (via a tractor and PTO). Several commercial mower companies make nice hydraulic lift side and front mower decks but again the min. machine width is always too wide for my access points.
foton, I'm looking up Gravely mowers. Thanks.

Unfortunately I have almost 20 narrow access points to pass through so funding that many gates at a municipal level is a lot of money and a low priority but I keep asking and suggesting options to them.
 

cdmccul

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What about something like this for mowing slopes?


I watched this effortlessly transition from flat to slope to flat, mowing ditches. Never seen one before or since, but it's basically a big bicycle with training wheels!
 

mrbb

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Excellent informative information.
I figured a tracked machine would have a lower centre of gravity as brdgbldr pointed out and also added the issue of side slope sliding--look for anti side sliding tracks options. Related I'll look up the ASV re side hill tracks staying on the machine including if they are available on smaller machines. Thanks mrbb.
Wider tires is another useful idea as are axle weights. Thanks brdgbld. I know of filled tires but the idea didn't readily come to mind so thanks cm2ncfsu2. I didn't know you can get dual tires for a skid steer.
I'll look up the difference flow rates for tracked vs wheeled machines re mower attachments.
I didn't know Bobcat makes zero turn and stand on mowers. Another thing to look up. Thanks again mrbb. Also I had looked briefly at an ATV with a tow behind mower. Most ATVs are too wide but I'm sure there are smaller/narrower ones available. I'll check the options including speed that a mower can be towed at.

Lastly (mrb's point), The ganged mowers I've seen are all for finishing. I hadn't thought of an ATV gang mower option. I had looked for unsuccessful a cat wing style mower with fold up and down side mower decks but I couldn't find anything narrow enough but it's easy to find much larger cat wing mowers like you see mower the highway ditches (via a tractor and PTO). Several commercial mower companies make nice hydraulic lift side and front mower decks but again the min. machine width is always too wide for my access points.
foton, I'm looking up Gravely mowers. Thanks.

Unfortunately I have almost 20 narrow access points to pass through so funding that many gates at a municipal level is a lot of money and a low priority but I keep asking and suggesting options to them.
just to be clear I wasn't saying BOBCAT makes tracked zero turn mower, just that some company's are out there that do,
and I highly doubt they are only 40 inches wide the ones that are, there just isn;t a demand for them, most want wider not more narrow

and as for tracks, I wasn't saying there is a special track that stays on better than another model, its all about the whole design of the track and its rollers and such, not like just swapping to"X" brand style track



SO< I honestly do Not think you will find anything that fits your needs as there is nothing made really that does!, hate to say this, but its most likely the case

I do have some question s for you however if you wouldn;'t mind answering,
first would be, , what is being used to mow thing the past few yrs??

I am guessing either push mowers and weed wackers, and its becoming more work that its fun using them
how steep are the side hills?

and My Last question would be, have you just thought about Spraying things to keep them in check and clear along the trails, rather than mowing at all,
seems like this would be a way better solution till you can get wider gates(and again push the safety issues NOT having them in case of an emergency and odds are things will move faster, most are scared of law suits which tends to open wallets faster to prevent a big law suit)

There are tons of easy to use chemicals that a back pack sprayer can be used to spray them with (can even ride a bike and spray with some of the battery powered ones ) , and will control weds and such for weeks or months pending type and locations
as again I doubt your going to find a stable machine that can mow with anything but a very tiny mower that is 40 inches wide, and even then will be tippy with an average man on it! , its just the laws of physic's at work,
 
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Thomas173

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What about something like this for mowing slopes?


I watched this effortlessly transition from flat to slope to flat, mowing ditches. Never seen one before or since, but it's basically a big bicycle with training wheels!
Never heard of it but it's too specific for my needs. The trail has some side slope but it's mostly flat.
 
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Thomas173

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mmbr, thanks for your input and clarification.
I've been using an old self propelled push mower and riding mower because they are narrow for east access and pretty easy to find up for sale. Also a weed whacker with a blade. All are under sized for the task but it's a start.
The side slope is along the trail edge, especially where the trail was built up with crushed limestone. It's only a small drop off to forest or bush or a wet ditch, but it's important to keep the trail width cleared to stay ahead of drooping and overhanging bush. And the side slope isn't all smooth. It's a bit precarious with a riding lawnmower.
I hadn't thought of chemicals/spraying. I know the local utilities and municipal post public notices about using them. The trail is a combination of private and public lands. The land user agreements state rules like max width, etc. Even gate installation will exceed the rules because of the post depths but I think that's negotiable for safety reasons whereas chemical applications approval would be doubtful. About ten years ago governments greatly restricted herbicides, pesticides etc.
 

mrbb

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mmbr, thanks for your input and clarification.
I've been using an old self propelled push mower and riding mower because they are narrow for east access and pretty easy to find up for sale. Also a weed whacker with a blade. All are under sized for the task but it's a start.
The side slope is along the trail edge, especially where the trail was built up with crushed limestone. It's only a small drop off to forest or bush or a wet ditch, but it's important to keep the trail width cleared to stay ahead of drooping and overhanging bush. And the side slope isn't all smooth. It's a bit precarious with a riding lawnmower.
I hadn't thought of chemicals/spraying. I know the local utilities and municipal post public notices about using them. The trail is a combination of private and public lands. The land user agreements state rules like max width, etc. Even gate installation will exceed the rules because of the post depths but I think that's negotiable for safety reasons whereas chemical applications approval would be doubtful. About ten years ago governments greatly restricted herbicides, pesticides etc.
OK thanks for the new info,
but honestly there is NOT going to be any machine your going to be riding that is going to do what you want. at 40 inches wide,(non that small will handle a larger mower either if you did, still be a mower under 40 inches which means lots of passes which you don;'t want)
if you feel using a riding lawn mower things are a bit precarious, any thing else will be as well, due to the narrowness of things and why your not going to find anything made commercially , due to liability issues
its just again about the laws of physic's and gravity at work when your dealing with your measurements

so your going to be stuck using a push mower, and basically hand tools to be safe, and or a riding mower (which you can add duel wheels to, using adapters, or even winding things with wheel spacers, can fill tires, but doing this will make things more hairy on side hills with any sort of bumps or things your tires are going to run over as they will no longer flex over objects they encounter, and with wheel spacers or duel kits added ,,
but then your not going to be driving thru your gates, and will have to remove, reinstall and repeat at every gate, which I gather you don;t want to be doing! time consuming and well, added work to a job!

Spraying is a more logical way to control things IMO< I would at least try and see what the officials say,
, chemicals to control weeds have been in use SAFELY for decades now by millions of people
yes , the word chemical can upset many, but there is no getting away from chemical use , like it o not, its every where from on our food to things we use, chemicals are involved in most things!
some times its about about how there introduced that can help or hurt with getting them approved
if not chemicals, , again, you need to have gates that a FULL sized vehicle can enter, and this again should be a major deal with safety concerns, and again, HOW its brought up cam make a bigger impact on when and how it taken into consideration
a person or kid falling getting hurt, in an emergency, , an emergency vehicle should have access to trails(unless maybe pure hiking trails, and well, they don't tend to ever be mowed or not any I know of)
SO, pushing for wider gates, or gates that can be adjusted , something like a dual gate, where one side can stay closed and other opened when needed for vehicle access and such, ,is a safety concern
your worried about safety of chemical use,or they are, well, not having access for a emergency is also a a problem to worry about, and more folks fall;, have heart attacks and so on than have issues related to chemical use on a trail!
some times the priority's need to be in check with reality(and no bash meant here)
so I would again say you need to talk to officials more about these worries, all the more so if worried about weeds and tree's and such growing into trails and being a danger to folks tripping and so on, that just increases the odds of someone getting hurt, due to trails not being able to be maintained, due to,the gates!
I been doing trail maintenance on a few hundred miles of trails for a few decades now, so I have some trail work experience


l;astly, and again you will get a work out but will be side hill safe,, a WALK behind brush hog type unit will get thru your gates, but will be very time consuming to cover 8 miles and mean many passes due to it will have to be a smaller mower
a walk behind like this, or in a brush hog set up would at least be faster than a weedwacker, but again be a long day using over 8 miles , but about your best option if wider gates and no chemicals can be used, and you MAY be able to get a wider unit thru gate by angling it thru the opening, not a lot wider, but over 40 inches IMO




 
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Thomas173

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Update time.
I've investigated all the suggestions and most seriously looked at what I considered the best two options, a narrow skid steer (there is only one, the Bobcat S70) or a stand-on compact mini loader/tracked machine (several similar options), but in the end I decided against both of them out mostly for the aforementioned reasons that you guys pointed out. The good that came of it was that I like the stand-on concept.
Thus I have now decided that the best machine for my trail maintenance is a stand-on mower. As @mrbb wrote,
"a stand on mower like a bobcat Zr4000
they have lower center of gravity, and can be driven normally faster than traditional designed mowers...," to which I will add, are narrow enough to pass through the trail entrances. A narrow mower means more passes to mow the trail width but a stand-on mower is fast, stable and manoeuvrable, which is more than I can say about my current setup. I have explored the stand-on mower line up and there are quick a few options.
Thanks again for all your suggestions.
 

mrbb

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glad your happy, please come back after you have a bunch of hours using things and give an up[date on how its doing, i'm sure more than me would enjoy an update

As gravity is a hard to do deal with some times, when we have mowing needs, I know my property has more slopes and off camber ground than level ground, and its always a struggle some times to get things done that need doing~!
 

LeoB

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Assuming your doing the trail mowing for profit and not just fun... Take a look at the Green Climber.

See: https://www.greenclimberna.com/

This is a diesel powered remote control machine. Comes in several models. The diesels range from 25 to 75 horse power, they will handle up to a 60 degree slope and the remote control ranges from 300 to 500 feet.

Bust out a 4 week ATV, a cooler with some soda pop on ice and run the joy sticks.

A guy in know here in eastern Iowa does mowing for the DNR. And when it comes to mowing steep slopes along the highways and byways, he does not even blink. Also, he does brush cutting for the DNR. Again, flat or steep, he pretty much does not care.

Just a thought...
 

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