radial or vertical lift

[s220turbo]

I was wondering what yo guys think about the different lift paths. Tell me which ones you like the best and tell me what lift path works the best for certain jobs. My personal prefrence is radial.

 

[Tigerotor77W]

Oh, man, I've posted this a gazillion times over at both lawnsite.com and tractorbynet.com... in short, I think that vertical lift has developed enough to make it a worthy competitor to radial lift, even in extreme applications. That being said, I think Bobcat's S220 is one of the best machines they make, if not the best. I really like the machine, but the S250, in my opinion, is a heavy-enough machine to make it slightly better. As for your question of which lift path works best for which job, well, the intuitive answer would be to say that vertical lift paths are better for lift and load jobs while radial is better for digging and grading. Many manufacturers' verticals are smooth enough to operate as a digging machine; conversely, some radial machines are heavy enough to lift competentely (namely the Case 450, previously 90XT). The catch, however, is that different manufacturers have different lift configurations. Deere and Gehl, especially, have lift arms that literally lift straight up from carry position to maximum hinge pin height. These two manufacturers have a "true" vertical lift in that sense. However, if you want maximum reach (less than that of radial machines, however) to occur around mid-height BUT still have excellent dump reach, there is no one better than the Case/Bobcat/Cat styles. The Case design is similar to the NH design in that each moves the load up and out continuously until maximum height; the Cat moves its load arc out and up, then straight up (they have drawings on their site). The Bobcat is unique because it is in fact a type of radial lift -- it actually has its maximum reach right about at mid height. (Keep in mind this is for the 250 and 300-size machines, not necessarily the 175/185/205-size machines.) This is advantageous if you want extra reach to unload from a trailer, but you will see this being played in a negative light by Deere. They'll run a 325, a S250, and a 445 (formerly 85XT) and show that the 325 is the only one that can unload a full pallet of something. Well yes, it is, simply because the other two machines don't have their reach at a minimum at that point. It's pretty complicated and I still don't understand all of it, but long story made short, be aware that manufacturers will know how to tweak their machine to seem the best one. Radial lift has long been the "undisputed" leader for digging and grading. Its fewer bushings ang moving parts makes it especially good for tougher jobs where failure isn't an option. That being said, it is odd that the Case 465 (95XT) has been used in demolition for quite some time and also that the Gehl/Mustang beasts (7810, 7610/2199, 2099) are ALL vertical lift. (Even the 450, not a vertical lift, has found its place as the best digging machine currently available, has more bushings than the average radial lift machine.) Indeed, the largest machine of all manufacturers is currently a vertical lift machine. (Including Komatsu, which does market a SK1026 skid steer in some parts of the world.) Um, okay, Thomas doesn't and JCB doesn't, yet. Anyhow -- vertical lift loader arms (except NH) have developed (mainly because of Case's XT) into heavy-duty designs that are capable of large torques on the bucket (caused by corner-loading) and are generally suitable for heavy digging. However, many will still claim that their radial lift 863 can grade better than the vertical lift S205. There really isn't much doubting or agreeing with this either way; it is true that a radial machine has better dig characteristics, but it's quite the matter of operator preference that will dictate which is "better." (The radial lift arm lifts the bucket in an arc, therefore using the lift arm cylinders to fill the bucket as well as the bucket cylinders to curl the bucket, which, in theory, should result in a fuller bucket, faster.) If I could choose any machine from Bobcat, it'd be an S250. But I will admit that I'm impressed mostly with the S220. My only complaint is that it's too big. If anything, Bobcat needs to throw a 45 inch wheelbase on it and sell it in a smaller package; what competitor has a 48 inch wheelbase? Even the 450, with 2400 ROC, has a 44 inch wheelbase. The S175 frame has been around since 1996 when the 753L (later 763) came out... it, too needs an upgrade, best to around 43 or 44 inches. That length preserves manuverability but adds much needed stability in that size of loader. Back on topic -- for most jobs, I would specify a vertical-lift loader. It's simply refined enough to take on most jobs. However, if I dig a lot or exclusively, there's no doubt my loader of choice would be the Case 450 or Bobcat S220 (Mustang 2086 is close in there as well). For certain low-visibility situations, the radial-lift machines will be better as well (Komatsu, JCB, Bobcat). For an excellent all-around machine, however, I don't think you can beat the S250. A few years ago I would have said the 863 with counterweights, but with the introduction of the S250 in 2001 or so, I think the best loader on the market is exactly that.

 

[Tigerotor77W]

Well, I had formatting but it went all to heck. Sorry for that long paragraph. Hit control and scroll your mouse wheel (if you have one) to make the text larger, if that helps.

 

[864wood]

Well, I had formatting but it went all to heck. Sorry for that long paragraph. Hit control and scroll your mouse wheel (if you have one) to make the text larger, if that helps.

Wooow. That was impressive and very informative. I might also add that my 864G is radial lift but due to the increase in the landscaping will probably switch to vertical lift path. Lets hope it dosen't change my grading results tooo much. I might also add that if I flew Army scout helicopters for 6 years I can problably tweak my result enough.

 

[Tigerotor77W]

Wooow. That was impressive and very informative. I might also add that my 864G is radial lift but due to the increase in the landscaping will probably switch to vertical lift path. Lets hope it dosen't change my grading results tooo much. I might also add that if I flew Army scout helicopters for 6 years I can problably tweak my result enough.

No worries... I think the Bobcat vertical lifts are decent grading machines.