New Wire Harness M600 Bobcat

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kesslerkrazy

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Sep 24, 2017
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Hi everyone, I have looked on this site for quite a long time. I have a question now I'm hoping someone can help me with. I have a 1969 Bobocat (Melroe) 600. It has a Wisconsin VF4D. It is setup as a forklift, and has been used for beekeeping for many years. I'm in process of getting it back and running reliably. It was having issues starting, and if I jiggled wire on starter it would then start. Seems to run well. I have replaced fuel pump with electric, new rotor cap, rotor, points, condensor, and spark plugs all correctly gapped. The wire on the starter broke today, so it is time to put new harness on or possibly just the that one wire. I do have a complete new wire harness. Both halves, ignition side, and the side that goes down to the starter and other connections in the back. I have a service manual, parts manual, and operator manual but they are not printed that well and are hard to see. It seems like my Bobcat's connections are different than what is on the new wiring harness. Not sure exactly how to hook it up if I go that route.
 
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kesslerkrazy

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Sep 24, 2017
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Trying to figure out how to post pictures. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Fba_fpzjHoCeIj3muxxIAOiWx7raLwZ82Q/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxYYdekczpUiQ1FwRWk5MEF0ZjdHY1BJdnFBTWRDYmM0Mi1J/view?usp=sharing
 

alchemysa

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Mar 29, 2016
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203
Trying to figure out how to post pictures. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Fba_fpzjHoCeIj3muxxIAOiWx7raLwZ82Q/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxYYdekczpUiQ1FwRWk5MEF0ZjdHY1BJdnFBTWRDYmM0Mi1J/view?usp=sharing
To post oics I use Tinypic. Its free and easy.
Regarding the wiring. Google for the VH4D workshop/repair/service manual. (Its free at a few sites). It contains a few wiring diagrams that I have found useful.
 
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kesslerkrazy

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Sep 24, 2017
Messages
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To post oics I use Tinypic. Its free and easy.
Regarding the wiring. Google for the VH4D workshop/repair/service manual. (Its free at a few sites). It contains a few wiring diagrams that I have found useful.
Thanks for the Tinypic advice.
pic 1

This is the end I am wondering about. The black wire has a large ring on it. Not sure exactly where that goes.
pic 2

I'm also wondering if I can just run a new wire that I broke at the starter without having to put on the whole new harness right now.
 
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kesslerkrazy

Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2017
Messages
10
To post oics I use Tinypic. Its free and easy.
Regarding the wiring. Google for the VH4D workshop/repair/service manual. (Its free at a few sites). It contains a few wiring diagrams that I have found useful.
Thanks for the Tinypic advice.
4ku3ok.jpg
This is the end I am wondering about. The black wire has a large ring on it. Not sure exactly where that goes.
vor70g.jpg
I'm also wondering if I can just run a new wire that I broke at the starter without having to put on the whole new harness right now.
 

alchemysa

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Mar 29, 2016
Messages
203
Thanks for the Tinypic advice. This is the end I am wondering about. The black wire has a large ring on it. Not sure exactly where that goes. I'm also wondering if I can just run a new wire that I broke at the starter without having to put on the whole new harness right now.
I dont know why your pics are not appearing. As a test I'm going to paste them in without the IMG at each end.
http://i68.tinypic.com/4ku3ok.jpg
http://i67.tinypic.com/vor70g.jpg
 

flyerdan

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Joined
Mar 7, 2009
Messages
983
I dont know why your pics are not appearing. As a test I'm going to paste them in without the IMG at each end.
http://i68.tinypic.com/4ku3ok.jpg
http://i67.tinypic.com/vor70g.jpg
I fixed your pictures; as near as I can figure you have to physically type in all the html codes and tags to get anything to format correctly.
If the only thing wrong at the moment is the broken wire to the starter, I'd just replace that rather than opening a can of worms. If you're always having problems with something electrical every time you try to do something, then replace the harness.
I have the first chapter of the 600 service manual (for some odd reason) in pretty clear .pdf, and the 700 service manual if you think that that could help with wiring issues.
 

6brnorma

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Jul 13, 2011
Messages
882
I fixed your pictures; as near as I can figure you have to physically type in all the html codes and tags to get anything to format correctly.
If the only thing wrong at the moment is the broken wire to the starter, I'd just replace that rather than opening a can of worms. If you're always having problems with something electrical every time you try to do something, then replace the harness.
I have the first chapter of the 600 service manual (for some odd reason) in pretty clear .pdf, and the 700 service manual if you think that that could help with wiring issues.
Hi Kessler…hope you are coming along with the 5th Wheel.
First a disclaimer….I do not use the original wiring harness on any of my machines because I change to single wire alternator, electronic distributor, electric fuel pump, etc. so the first thing I do when I get a new (to me) 610 is tear all the wiring harness out and throw it in the trash. My recommendation to you is to simply repair the break as flyerdan suggested to avoid any further problems. The "can of worms" he referred to is….first, someone has made a 'jumper' on your starter solenoid that is not standard, there were a number of wiring harnesses made and we are not sure the one you have is correct, has someone replaced the original generator with an alternator, do you have a rectifier regulator module……just too many variables. As far as the 'black' wire is concerned………*IF*….everything is standard….it was supposed to go to the battery connection on the starter.
 
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kesslerkrazy

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Sep 24, 2017
Messages
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Hi Kessler…hope you are coming along with the 5th Wheel.
First a disclaimer….I do not use the original wiring harness on any of my machines because I change to single wire alternator, electronic distributor, electric fuel pump, etc. so the first thing I do when I get a new (to me) 610 is tear all the wiring harness out and throw it in the trash. My recommendation to you is to simply repair the break as flyerdan suggested to avoid any further problems. The "can of worms" he referred to is….first, someone has made a 'jumper' on your starter solenoid that is not standard, there were a number of wiring harnesses made and we are not sure the one you have is correct, has someone replaced the original generator with an alternator, do you have a rectifier regulator module……just too many variables. As far as the 'black' wire is concerned………*IF*….everything is standard….it was supposed to go to the battery connection on the starter.
Hi everyone. I really appreciate all the helpful comments. I have good news and bad news. Bad news first. I couldn't get the dang nut off the start from where the wire broke. It just spins, so I'm guess the whole stud is spinning. I've tried for too many hrs trying to get it off. Good news I went ahead and rigged it up and got it running again. I used an alligator clip on one end of the new wire and put it on the nut, fire up the machine, then remove the alligator clip, and put it safely somewhere while its running Not exactly safest, but at least it's running again. Not really wanting to sink another couple hundred dollars right this moment for a new starter, but do need to use it. Used it today for a small job. Using it in the morning for another, and loading it on my trailer for the first time. Hoping it all goes smoothly. Spending hrs looking into the engine bay, I can see I need to put a new belt on the alternator. Appears to be easy enough as the tensioner swing arm looks like it will just drop down enough to get belt. Would be nice if it was that easy.
 

6brnorma

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Jul 13, 2011
Messages
882
Hi everyone. I really appreciate all the helpful comments. I have good news and bad news. Bad news first. I couldn't get the dang nut off the start from where the wire broke. It just spins, so I'm guess the whole stud is spinning. I've tried for too many hrs trying to get it off. Good news I went ahead and rigged it up and got it running again. I used an alligator clip on one end of the new wire and put it on the nut, fire up the machine, then remove the alligator clip, and put it safely somewhere while its running Not exactly safest, but at least it's running again. Not really wanting to sink another couple hundred dollars right this moment for a new starter, but do need to use it. Used it today for a small job. Using it in the morning for another, and loading it on my trailer for the first time. Hoping it all goes smoothly. Spending hrs looking into the engine bay, I can see I need to put a new belt on the alternator. Appears to be easy enough as the tensioner swing arm looks like it will just drop down enough to get belt. Would be nice if it was that easy.
kessler……please do not do that……you are taking an extreme risk of personal injury being down inside that engine compartment with that engine running. You have alt./gen., alt. belt, driven sheave with bolts and spring, drive belt, jackshaft block/bolts….all spinning at a high speed and torque that would injure you for life should you or any clothing be caught in it. I know you'd say you are being careful but the chance of a shock from handling wiring and the auto reaction of your body is extremely high. The cost of a $250.00 starter is peanuts in comparison. At the very least replace the solenoid for $50.00…..I've done it without removing the starter.
Replacing the Alt. belt is actually a very time consuming job. You must loosen tension on the drive belt and remove the jackshaft block to r & r the belt…..then insure all alignments of the chains, drive belt and alt. belt are correct after installation. My advice would be to wait until complete failure of the belt or until such time as you are doing other work inside there. When you do replace the belt…..put two in there….zip tie one out of the way so you don't have to go through the entire process to put another one on.
 

flyerdan

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Mar 7, 2009
Messages
983
kessler……please do not do that……you are taking an extreme risk of personal injury being down inside that engine compartment with that engine running. You have alt./gen., alt. belt, driven sheave with bolts and spring, drive belt, jackshaft block/bolts….all spinning at a high speed and torque that would injure you for life should you or any clothing be caught in it. I know you'd say you are being careful but the chance of a shock from handling wiring and the auto reaction of your body is extremely high. The cost of a $250.00 starter is peanuts in comparison. At the very least replace the solenoid for $50.00…..I've done it without removing the starter.
Replacing the Alt. belt is actually a very time consuming job. You must loosen tension on the drive belt and remove the jackshaft block to r & r the belt…..then insure all alignments of the chains, drive belt and alt. belt are correct after installation. My advice would be to wait until complete failure of the belt or until such time as you are doing other work inside there. When you do replace the belt…..put two in there….zip tie one out of the way so you don't have to go through the entire process to put another one on.
The solenoid does come off easy, remove the battery cable (which appears to need a good clean anyway) and the cap screw holding the power tab from the starter body. There should be two 5/16 cap screws holding the solenoid to the nosecone housing, it will need to twist a bit to clear the fixed power tab on the starter, but it does come off. They are fairly universal and should be easy to source.
The back bakelite housing comes off and you can access the terminal that spins, if you're like me and like to repair things if possible. I know that the big terminals are square headed copper bolts, and they can be turned 180 degrees to put the new side into play when they erode down from disc contact. Can't remember if the small ones are the same, but it's worth a look; if the bolt head is rounded maybe the unused one from the other end could be put in it's place.
 
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kesslerkrazy

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Sep 24, 2017
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The solenoid does come off easy, remove the battery cable (which appears to need a good clean anyway) and the cap screw holding the power tab from the starter body. There should be two 5/16 cap screws holding the solenoid to the nosecone housing, it will need to twist a bit to clear the fixed power tab on the starter, but it does come off. They are fairly universal and should be easy to source.
The back bakelite housing comes off and you can access the terminal that spins, if you're like me and like to repair things if possible. I know that the big terminals are square headed copper bolts, and they can be turned 180 degrees to put the new side into play when they erode down from disc contact. Can't remember if the small ones are the same, but it's worth a look; if the bolt head is rounded maybe the unused one from the other end could be put in it's place.
Well I hope that alternator belt stays good! I was wondering about changing the solenoid. I want to fix it ASAP, but I didn't have much of a choice at moment. I'm well aware its very unsafe, and everyone should understand this is not a smart idea to get the machine started this way. I am doing so at my own risk. http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-STARTER-SOLENOID-BOBCAT-SKID-STEER-LOADER-M-600-610-620-700-WISCONSIN-VF4D-/301165020582?epid=1192736014&hash=item461ed585a6:g:vg0AAOSwPYZU5LWl&vxp=mtr Not sure, but it looks like this solenoid might be the right one. Or if I can get one locally at Napa or something? Frustrating little machine, but I'm hoping to get it running consistent and reliably. When it runs, it seem to do just fine. Actually purrs real nice. After getting all new ignition parts, and new fuel pump it runs really well. I copied a fellow member and have a "custom" exhaust rigged up to a GSXR-1000 muffler. It is way quieter than old rusted out muffler on the machine when I got it. This morning I realized that the choke was not hooked up correctly. When you pulled the choke, nothing was happening. This was the first morning trying to start machine around say 55 degrees. I have been starting in afternoon probably 90+ degree weather. So this morning it wouldn't start. Then it flooded. After waiting and trying again I realized the choke needed adjustment. After it was adjusted and waiting more it finally fired up. So the job I needed to do before the sun came up, didn't happen. By the time I got machine down to the bottom field it was too late and my bees were already flying. I'm going to try again after dark tonight. After immediate solenoid issue. Next projects is getting wiring buttoned up getting tail wheel mounted, new tires. I want to paint it so it looks decent. I need to adjust clutches, and front axle seals need replaced, but I always keep it full of fluid before each use.
 

6brnorma

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Jul 13, 2011
Messages
882
Well I hope that alternator belt stays good! I was wondering about changing the solenoid. I want to fix it ASAP, but I didn't have much of a choice at moment. I'm well aware its very unsafe, and everyone should understand this is not a smart idea to get the machine started this way. I am doing so at my own risk. http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-STARTER-SOLENOID-BOBCAT-SKID-STEER-LOADER-M-600-610-620-700-WISCONSIN-VF4D-/301165020582?epid=1192736014&hash=item461ed585a6:g:vg0AAOSwPYZU5LWl&vxp=mtr Not sure, but it looks like this solenoid might be the right one. Or if I can get one locally at Napa or something? Frustrating little machine, but I'm hoping to get it running consistent and reliably. When it runs, it seem to do just fine. Actually purrs real nice. After getting all new ignition parts, and new fuel pump it runs really well. I copied a fellow member and have a "custom" exhaust rigged up to a GSXR-1000 muffler. It is way quieter than old rusted out muffler on the machine when I got it. This morning I realized that the choke was not hooked up correctly. When you pulled the choke, nothing was happening. This was the first morning trying to start machine around say 55 degrees. I have been starting in afternoon probably 90+ degree weather. So this morning it wouldn't start. Then it flooded. After waiting and trying again I realized the choke needed adjustment. After it was adjusted and waiting more it finally fired up. So the job I needed to do before the sun came up, didn't happen. By the time I got machine down to the bottom field it was too late and my bees were already flying. I'm going to try again after dark tonight. After immediate solenoid issue. Next projects is getting wiring buttoned up getting tail wheel mounted, new tires. I want to paint it so it looks decent. I need to adjust clutches, and front axle seals need replaced, but I always keep it full of fluid before each use.
kessler….I'm the man you bought the 5th wheel from. Why don't you pull the starter and have it rebuilt…..maybe $150.00 (or less) and it will be in good shape with a new solenoid. 9/16 socket on three bolts plus the front support and she is out of there. The back one requires a combination of extensions and maybe a universal but not bad. AND…..you'll still have both arms and all fingers when you're done.
 
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kesslerkrazy

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Sep 24, 2017
Messages
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kessler….I'm the man you bought the 5th wheel from. Why don't you pull the starter and have it rebuilt…..maybe $150.00 (or less) and it will be in good shape with a new solenoid. 9/16 socket on three bolts plus the front support and she is out of there. The back one requires a combination of extensions and maybe a universal but not bad. AND…..you'll still have both arms and all fingers when you're done.
Small world 6BNorma! I've been using your old posts to get this dang Bobcat running. I'm working on getting new solenoid/or getting the starter rebuilt. I've got it rigged now so it is safe to run, but I want it fixed right. I'll give you a call sometime when I get a free chance to talk about mounting that 5th wheel. Moved bees last night with machine for the first time. 8 Pallets went pretty dang well. So much better than moving bees by hand. My goal is to get 5th wheel on in next few weeks so I can get used to running machine. Got a bunch of small things to finish, but I can see the light at end of the tunnel with fixing this machine. Overall though, I'm glad I finally put this purchase to work.
 
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