looking to buy first SS need opinions

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jackel440

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Jan 3, 2008
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Hi everyone, I have been reading lots of threads on this site ,and I would like some opinions on a unit i might be looking at. I will be using this unit to move square and round bales of hay.move manure and drill post holes.moving snow.general farm work. My wifes uncle is a saleman at a new holland dealer and he is getting a 2005 LS170 in on trade.The previous owner used it to instal fences.suppoedly has not seen manure and was not used on the post driver.I was told he had another unit for that.wifes uncle said that it has 3900 hrs on it and they were going to ask 13K for it.I don't know what shape the tires,paint,pins ,and bushings are in yet.(they are still dealing to get it in on trade) I was considering this unit for the reason it is only a couple of yrs old compared to an older unit in the same price range.I was budgeting around 10K for a skid steer purchase.I was looking at a 773 bobcat or similar machine.I have used a buddys 753 and an old Mustang when i worked at a previous job a loong time ago.So I am parshal to the bobcat,but like the lift boom of the new holland. I know the hours are high ,but I have searched the net and found other machines in similar shape and have the same price or higher.How well are these units going to be with this amount of hours?I need something I can use and not have to fix it all the time.(unlike my old hough payloader)Is it worth getting an high hour machine just to get a newer unit? Thanks Aaron Smith
 

Tazza

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For such a new machine it has done a lot of work! but you already noticed that. The LS170 is a good machine i'm sure Ken will pop his nose in as he has one and loves it. Depending on how much hay you will be moving you may want to get a bale grapple to make it easier to grab. As for drilling post holes, it really depends on your dirt, a skid steer really doesn't have a lot of down pressure at the arms to drill through rock. If you have nice soft soil a post hole borer will work well, but if you have a lot of rock you are wasting your time, you need an excavator which can apply a lot more pressure than a skidsteer can.
The arms you speak of, you are talking about the vertical lift? Bobcat do have this style too but remember vertical lift has more pins so it will wear more and feel sloppy earlier.
As you obviously live where it gets cold, make sure you try the machine out when the engine is stone cold. You need to see how worn it is by starting it cold. If it takes a lot to start its worn and will require a re-build soon. In cold weather it does take a bit of a glow to get it going but it shouldn't need excessive glowing.
Good luck in your decision.
 

skidsteer.ca

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Jan 20, 2006
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For such a new machine it has done a lot of work! but you already noticed that. The LS170 is a good machine i'm sure Ken will pop his nose in as he has one and loves it. Depending on how much hay you will be moving you may want to get a bale grapple to make it easier to grab. As for drilling post holes, it really depends on your dirt, a skid steer really doesn't have a lot of down pressure at the arms to drill through rock. If you have nice soft soil a post hole borer will work well, but if you have a lot of rock you are wasting your time, you need an excavator which can apply a lot more pressure than a skidsteer can.
The arms you speak of, you are talking about the vertical lift? Bobcat do have this style too but remember vertical lift has more pins so it will wear more and feel sloppy earlier.
As you obviously live where it gets cold, make sure you try the machine out when the engine is stone cold. You need to see how worn it is by starting it cold. If it takes a lot to start its worn and will require a re-build soon. In cold weather it does take a bit of a glow to get it going but it shouldn't need excessive glowing.
Good luck in your decision.
I think if you watch ebay you can find once with @ 2000 hours for this kind of money. One thing though with that high of hours in 2 years it must have worked mostly long days, so fewer cold starts should reduce the toll those hours would take.
Mine was a mint 160 with 430 hours (paint still on the exhaust manifold, original rubber 50%), no heated cab, 2000 model in fall of 05 for $11,500
The 170 is the exact same loader except it has 10 more hp because the engine is a turbo?
If this is a NH dealer I'd be asking what they would want for a reman engine, pump rebuild etc. Has this machine had anything rebuilt on it?
Also carefully check all the boom pins for play. By 4000 hours the bucket end of dump cylinder pins on a bobcat would likely have 3/8 to 1/2 slop in them (usually the worst ones) Not sure if the NH lasts better or not.
The only thing I don't like about NH is the rad is quite exposed through the tailgate and the panels alongside the engine are just tin, however the sides are protected by the boom when is is down.
We put a piece of fine steel expanded mesh over the vents on the read door so small stick can't penatrate the rad. If I was picking out a new one I would go with the turbo 170, the extra power would not hurt,
How many hour a year do you think you will put on this loader. Has the seller indicated that NH had updated anything on this 2005 model that a older loader like mine would not offer?
I would value it in the 10 to 11k range, although I doubt you would buy it from a dealer for this I could have bought a 05 s185, heat, AC, high flow 600 hours for 18K, I think I would look alittle more or work on them a bit.
Ken
 
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jackel440

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Jan 3, 2008
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I think if you watch ebay you can find once with @ 2000 hours for this kind of money. One thing though with that high of hours in 2 years it must have worked mostly long days, so fewer cold starts should reduce the toll those hours would take.
Mine was a mint 160 with 430 hours (paint still on the exhaust manifold, original rubber 50%), no heated cab, 2000 model in fall of 05 for $11,500
The 170 is the exact same loader except it has 10 more hp because the engine is a turbo?
If this is a NH dealer I'd be asking what they would want for a reman engine, pump rebuild etc. Has this machine had anything rebuilt on it?
Also carefully check all the boom pins for play. By 4000 hours the bucket end of dump cylinder pins on a bobcat would likely have 3/8 to 1/2 slop in them (usually the worst ones) Not sure if the NH lasts better or not.
The only thing I don't like about NH is the rad is quite exposed through the tailgate and the panels alongside the engine are just tin, however the sides are protected by the boom when is is down.
We put a piece of fine steel expanded mesh over the vents on the read door so small stick can't penatrate the rad. If I was picking out a new one I would go with the turbo 170, the extra power would not hurt,
How many hour a year do you think you will put on this loader. Has the seller indicated that NH had updated anything on this 2005 model that a older loader like mine would not offer?
I would value it in the 10 to 11k range, although I doubt you would buy it from a dealer for this I could have bought a 05 s185, heat, AC, high flow 600 hours for 18K, I think I would look alittle more or work on them a bit.
Ken
Thanks for the replys! I have drilled holes around here with my post hole digger on my utility tractor so the rock issue is not a problem ,and i have used my buddies bobcat with a post hole digger and it was way better than my 3 point one on my tractor. I definatly wonder how it would start in the cold.Do they come with block heaters on them new,or do you have to install your own? I am concerned with the hours ,and thats why i am asking for opinions.I wondered if buying a newer machine thst has higher hours on it for less money would be good deal if it is in good shape compared to other units with lower hrs. on it. As far as how many hours i would put on it myself I am not sure.I will nake a guess of 250-300 hrs. Here is a question for you guys.I want to use a bale handler that picks 8 small square bales at a time on this machine to unload my trailer.My hay guy uses one on a little new holland utility to load my trailer when we are in the field.When i get home i have to unload and stack them by hand by myself.which on average is 1000 bales.If i could use one of these bale handlers to take the hay off the trailer and carry it into my stable it would save my back.I still have to stack it by hand,but not having to carry it from outside to the otherside of the barn would be nice. The dealer has not gotten it in yet.So i haven't seen it yet.It might be in bad shape and not even want it.I was interested in it also for the reason that they would give me trade on my old payloader. Aaron
 

Earthwerks Unlimited

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Dec 21, 2007
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AT $13000 the dealer isn't doing you ANY favors. Typically the industry standard for equipment is 600 hours a year is considered normal. So that means hey squeezed 6.5 of normal use into under 2 years. To me that borders on abuse---I mean it was in the field working instead of getting an oil change every 500 hours---so that would mean it SHOULD have had 78 oil changes! Even if you figure it was taken out of service one day for each lube job that's over 2 months of no use out of those two years! I traded my '03 LS180 with all the nice options (which I'd recommend over the LS170) for $19,000 in good condition with heated & enclosed cab. They sold it for the same price. If you're going to drop $13000, buy NEW at a fantastic interest rate (mine's 3.9). You'll have something BRAND NEW, with very affordable payments. I think what happened with this dealer that you're dealing with is, he took a huge loss on the one that was bought toward the traded one you're looking at. DON'T DO IT!
 

Earthwerks Unlimited

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Dec 21, 2007
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AT $13000 the dealer isn't doing you ANY favors. Typically the industry standard for equipment is 600 hours a year is considered normal. So that means hey squeezed 6.5 of normal use into under 2 years. To me that borders on abuse---I mean it was in the field working instead of getting an oil change every 500 hours---so that would mean it SHOULD have had 78 oil changes! Even if you figure it was taken out of service one day for each lube job that's over 2 months of no use out of those two years! I traded my '03 LS180 with all the nice options (which I'd recommend over the LS170) for $19,000 in good condition with heated & enclosed cab. They sold it for the same price. If you're going to drop $13000, buy NEW at a fantastic interest rate (mine's 3.9). You'll have something BRAND NEW, with very affordable payments. I think what happened with this dealer that you're dealing with is, he took a huge loss on the one that was bought toward the traded one you're looking at. DON'T DO IT!
I wanted to add that the industry standard is 5000 hours before total rebuild. And rebuilds can run $5000 and up. SO that means the other guy has used up 80% of the life. With only 20% left that means if you keep it for 2 years (at 600 hours a year) before rebuilding it, it will have cost you $13000 PLUS the $5000 for the rebuild (not accounting for any other repairs like tires, hoses etc.) that's $18,000 spread over 2 years equals $9,000 a year to use it. A brand new one may cost $200 a month for five years (just a wild guess) or $2400 a year. And you could keep it another 3-4 years (maybe three times that if you don't use it much) without dropping big money in it.
 
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jackel440

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I wanted to add that the industry standard is 5000 hours before total rebuild. And rebuilds can run $5000 and up. SO that means the other guy has used up 80% of the life. With only 20% left that means if you keep it for 2 years (at 600 hours a year) before rebuilding it, it will have cost you $13000 PLUS the $5000 for the rebuild (not accounting for any other repairs like tires, hoses etc.) that's $18,000 spread over 2 years equals $9,000 a year to use it. A brand new one may cost $200 a month for five years (just a wild guess) or $2400 a year. And you could keep it another 3-4 years (maybe three times that if you don't use it much) without dropping big money in it.
Earthwerks, Thanks for the excellent breakdown on costs.I think i am going to pass on this unit as i am leary of the hours too.I didn't know that the industry standard was 5000 hrs.thanks for that info.now i can better compare units when i am searching.I have fond a couple of ls180 skids for 16,500$ not sure on the hours or year yet.gonna make some calls tomorrow.one has wieght kit and hydraulic attachment. till tomorrow Aaron Smith
 

Tazza

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Earthwerks, Thanks for the excellent breakdown on costs.I think i am going to pass on this unit as i am leary of the hours too.I didn't know that the industry standard was 5000 hrs.thanks for that info.now i can better compare units when i am searching.I have fond a couple of ls180 skids for 16,500$ not sure on the hours or year yet.gonna make some calls tomorrow.one has wieght kit and hydraulic attachment. till tomorrow Aaron Smith
You generally get 6,000 hours out of skid steer diesel engines before they get lazy. They will still work and work well but in cold weather they are a total pig to start! But at that point you really need to look at a rebuild. For a NH machine they run their own engines so a new engine is NOT cheap, not like a Kubota so beware of this. Don't get me wrong, they are a good engine but not cheap to replace.
 
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jackel440

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Jan 3, 2008
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You generally get 6,000 hours out of skid steer diesel engines before they get lazy. They will still work and work well but in cold weather they are a total pig to start! But at that point you really need to look at a rebuild. For a NH machine they run their own engines so a new engine is NOT cheap, not like a Kubota so beware of this. Don't get me wrong, they are a good engine but not cheap to replace.
Well I called on some other machines and they are already gone.One dealer close to me says they have an 03' ls170 that they have rented out.dealer told me that its got a new (reman I think)engine that they installed with 600 hrs on it now,and about 1900hrs on the chassis.they are asking$16,500.00 for it.They offered to take me out to were it is and see itwhen ever i want to see it. I wonder why they had to put a new motor in it.didn't ask when i had them on the phone.are these new holland engines known for longevity issues.man I am getting anxious to get me a skid.I wish i could get the rush out of my system..arrrgh!
 

Tazza

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Well I called on some other machines and they are already gone.One dealer close to me says they have an 03' ls170 that they have rented out.dealer told me that its got a new (reman I think)engine that they installed with 600 hrs on it now,and about 1900hrs on the chassis.they are asking$16,500.00 for it.They offered to take me out to were it is and see itwhen ever i want to see it. I wonder why they had to put a new motor in it.didn't ask when i had them on the phone.are these new holland engines known for longevity issues.man I am getting anxious to get me a skid.I wish i could get the rush out of my system..arrrgh!
lol
I was the same with my first skid seer, i got it into my head i wanted one and i just had to wait. It didn't take too long and i found one and it was real cheap! I got my monies worth from it over and over.
 

Earthwerks Unlimited

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lol
I was the same with my first skid seer, i got it into my head i wanted one and i just had to wait. It didn't take too long and i found one and it was real cheap! I got my monies worth from it over and over.
Jackel I'm sure the sales guy was giddy with excitement that he found BIG one (you, LOL). What I did when I was in your shoes was pose the cost issue back to the sales guy. Tell him to get out his equivalent to the automotive Blue Book. Give him some "for instances". For instance, you bought this expensive machine. What if you turned around the smae day and traded it? What is worth--retail, trade-in or wholesale. When I traded my '03 LS180 I trusted my dealer and he knew I was going to ask what they were going to sell it for--so he got ihis book out and showed me--$19,000 was retail not trade-in (they/New Holland owed me big time on the new '05 LS185.b I ordered). They in trum didn't add the traditional $2000 minimum markup as they wanted to just get it off their books--and they didn't take a loss either. The other thing I did was since I had already bought a $13,000 tractor from them with a Ford employee discount (saved about $3500), the owner gave me the '03 at a discount (about $8000 savings) and he showed me the New Holland invoice paperwork. But it gets better; New Holland either had to fix a bad hydraulic pump and gear system for me or give me $4000 toward a new one (the '05). New Holland deep discounted the '05 I have now to the dealer and they passed the discount on to me. Bottom line is I got a machine that stickered at over $45,000 for $32,000. (FYI: Technically the Ford employee discount is not available on "Yellow" construction equipment such as skid steers, dozers, backhoes, etc., only on "Blue" Agricultural equipment---some dealers will still give you the "discount" price which can be about 6% over cost, as was the case in my situation.) If you have good credit and have a business you can take advantage of depreciation by buying new--used stuff you cannot. I still think you need to forget about buying used and go new---look into it for your own good. It may cost you $20-40 a month more but it's BRAND NEW! With a warranty!
 
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jackel440

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Jackel I'm sure the sales guy was giddy with excitement that he found BIG one (you, LOL). What I did when I was in your shoes was pose the cost issue back to the sales guy. Tell him to get out his equivalent to the automotive Blue Book. Give him some "for instances". For instance, you bought this expensive machine. What if you turned around the smae day and traded it? What is worth--retail, trade-in or wholesale. When I traded my '03 LS180 I trusted my dealer and he knew I was going to ask what they were going to sell it for--so he got ihis book out and showed me--$19,000 was retail not trade-in (they/New Holland owed me big time on the new '05 LS185.b I ordered). They in trum didn't add the traditional $2000 minimum markup as they wanted to just get it off their books--and they didn't take a loss either. The other thing I did was since I had already bought a $13,000 tractor from them with a Ford employee discount (saved about $3500), the owner gave me the '03 at a discount (about $8000 savings) and he showed me the New Holland invoice paperwork. But it gets better; New Holland either had to fix a bad hydraulic pump and gear system for me or give me $4000 toward a new one (the '05). New Holland deep discounted the '05 I have now to the dealer and they passed the discount on to me. Bottom line is I got a machine that stickered at over $45,000 for $32,000. (FYI: Technically the Ford employee discount is not available on "Yellow" construction equipment such as skid steers, dozers, backhoes, etc., only on "Blue" Agricultural equipment---some dealers will still give you the "discount" price which can be about 6% over cost, as was the case in my situation.) If you have good credit and have a business you can take advantage of depreciation by buying new--used stuff you cannot. I still think you need to forget about buying used and go new---look into it for your own good. It may cost you $20-40 a month more but it's BRAND NEW! With a warranty!
That was some great insight there Earthwerks!I definatly see your points.I know that a new unit with the payments was not in the cards right now.I do know about the employee discount you mention ( not from ford for me,as I work for Chrysler)which Is a real nice to have come time to buy a new truck. I will start a new thread ,but I made one heck of a deal on a used one today.
 
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