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General Bobcat Skidsteer Forum
Let's revisit the oil vs. hydraulic question???
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<blockquote data-quote="TriHonu" data-source="post: 14427" data-attributes="member: 897"><p>You guys got me thinking. I figure the hydrostatic pump is the most expensive item in the system and should be the item with most specific requirements.</p><p>I got the number off the pump in my 763, It is a Sauer Danfoss M91-35916 CCW. I called Sauer's Customer Service Dept and they identified it as a Series 40. They directed me to the <a href="http://www.sauer-danfoss.com/Literatur/index.html" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0000ff">Sauer Danfoss website</span></a> and told me to open the <u>Hydrostatic Propel Products</u> and then the <u>Series 40 Axial Piston Pumps and Motors</u><strong>.</strong> There you can down load the Service Manual and Technical Information on the pump.</p><p>They also directed me to a Technical Information on Hydraulic Fluids and Lubricants publication that is available from the same site under:</p><p><u>Sauer-Danfoss</u> then <u>Systems/Applications Technical Information</u> then <u>Technical Information (TI)</u> then <a href="http://domweb.sauer-danfoss.com/domdb/SauerLit.nsf/1526f939eb2e202286256c5b0062ff21/1EB2B64309F69CFBC1257338003E0BCB/$file/520L0463%20Hydraulic%20Fluids%20and%20Lubricants%20TI_11-2007_RevGC.pdf" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0000ff">Hydraulic Fluids and Lubricants TI_11-2007_RevGC.pdf</span></a></p><p>Page 21 states:</p><p><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">Sauer-Danfoss hydrostatic components may be operated with a variety of hydraulic fluids.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">The rated data which we publish in our Technical Information and Service Manuals are based on the use of <strong><u>premium hydraulic fluids containing oxidation, rust, and foam inhibitors</u></strong>. These fluids must also possess good thermal and hydrolytic stability to prevent wear erosion, and corrosion of the internal components. For some applications good anti-wear additives are required.</span></p><p><strong>[FONT=Myriad,Myriad]<span style="font-size: 10px"></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="font-size: 10px">The following hydraulic fluids are suitable</span>[/FONT]</strong></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">:</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">• Hydraulic Oil ISO 11 158 - HM (Seal compatibility and vane pump wear resistance per DIN 51 524-2 must be met)</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">• Hydraulic Oil ISO 11 158 - HV (Seal compatibility and vane pump wear resistance per DIN 51 524-3 must be met)</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">• Hydraulic Oil DIN 51 524-2- HLP</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">• Hydraulic Oil DIN 51 524-3 - HVLP</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">• Automatic Transmission Fluid ATF A Suffix A (GM)</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">• Automatic Transmission Fluid Dexron II (GM), which meets Allison C-3 and Caterpillar TO-2 test</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">• Automatic Transmission Fluid M2C33F and G (Ford)</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">• Engine oils API Classification SL, SJ (for gasoline engines) and CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, CF-4 and CF (for diesel engines)</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">• Super Tractor Oil Universal (STOU) special agricultural tractor fluid</span></p><p> </p><p>There are also charts that detail the oils and the temperature ranges that are acceptable for those oils. I phoned their Technical Support Line to clarify a couple of points:</p><p>1. They first recommend Premium Hydraulic Fluids and told me Mobil DTE 15M is very good. I live in southern Minnesota and they recommended </p><p>ISO 46 for the temperatures we normally see 100 to 0 degrees F. </p><p>OR</p><p>ISO 32 if we were operating a lot in the -10 to -20 degrees F.</p><p>2. He stated while any of the acceptable oils listed above will work, choosing the appropriate viscosity for your climate is very important and keeping the oil clean is critical.</p><p>3. Mixing the mineral based oils is not a significant issue since totally draining the system is not cheap or easy. However he stated if you want to change to some of the exotic or biodegradable oils you can have some nasty results if the system is not totally drained and flushed as some of these oils are incompatible with the mineral based hydraulic fluids.</p><p>4. If you choose to use the acceptable API Engine Oils and Automatic Transmission Fluids be aware that the oils have a high shear-ability which results in the oil performing at a much thinner viscosity under high loads. For example SAE 10W oil under high load will perform like an SAE 6W under high load. Too thin and you can start having parts rubbing together.</p><p>5. Using a Premium Grade Hydraulic Fluid with the correct viscosity will provide maximum protection of the pump and you will get maximum performance. Using any of the other acceptable oils will not hurt the pump as long as they are the correct viscosity for the temperatures you are operating in.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="TriHonu, post: 14427, member: 897"] You guys got me thinking. I figure the hydrostatic pump is the most expensive item in the system and should be the item with most specific requirements. I got the number off the pump in my 763, It is a Sauer Danfoss M91-35916 CCW. I called Sauer's Customer Service Dept and they identified it as a Series 40. They directed me to the [URL='http://www.sauer-danfoss.com/Literatur/index.html'][COLOR=#0000ff]Sauer Danfoss website[/COLOR][/URL] and told me to open the [U]Hydrostatic Propel Products[/U] and then the[B] [/B][U]Series 40 Axial Piston Pumps and Motors[/U][B].[/B] There you can down load the Service Manual and Technical Information on the pump. They also directed me to a Technical Information on Hydraulic Fluids and Lubricants publication that is available from the same site under: [U]Sauer-Danfoss[/U] then [U]Systems/Applications Technical Information[/U] then [U]Technical Information (TI)[/U] then [URL='http://domweb.sauer-danfoss.com/domdb/SauerLit.nsf/1526f939eb2e202286256c5b0062ff21/1EB2B64309F69CFBC1257338003E0BCB/$file/520L0463%20Hydraulic%20Fluids%20and%20Lubricants%20TI_11-2007_RevGC.pdf'][COLOR=#0000ff]Hydraulic Fluids and Lubricants TI_11-2007_RevGC.pdf[/COLOR][/URL] Page 21 states: [SIZE=2] Sauer-Danfoss hydrostatic components may be operated with a variety of hydraulic fluids. The rated data which we publish in our Technical Information and Service Manuals are based on the use of [B][U]premium hydraulic fluids containing oxidation, rust, and foam inhibitors[/U][/B]. These fluids must also possess good thermal and hydrolytic stability to prevent wear erosion, and corrosion of the internal components. For some applications good anti-wear additives are required.[/SIZE] [B][FONT=Myriad,Myriad][SIZE=2] The following hydraulic fluids are suitable[/SIZE][/FONT][/B] [SIZE=2]: • Hydraulic Oil ISO 11 158 - HM (Seal compatibility and vane pump wear resistance per DIN 51 524-2 must be met) • Hydraulic Oil ISO 11 158 - HV (Seal compatibility and vane pump wear resistance per DIN 51 524-3 must be met) • Hydraulic Oil DIN 51 524-2- HLP • Hydraulic Oil DIN 51 524-3 - HVLP • Automatic Transmission Fluid ATF A Suffix A (GM) • Automatic Transmission Fluid Dexron II (GM), which meets Allison C-3 and Caterpillar TO-2 test • Automatic Transmission Fluid M2C33F and G (Ford) • Engine oils API Classification SL, SJ (for gasoline engines) and CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, CF-4 and CF (for diesel engines) • Super Tractor Oil Universal (STOU) special agricultural tractor fluid[/SIZE] There are also charts that detail the oils and the temperature ranges that are acceptable for those oils. I phoned their Technical Support Line to clarify a couple of points: 1. They first recommend Premium Hydraulic Fluids and told me Mobil DTE 15M is very good. I live in southern Minnesota and they recommended ISO 46 for the temperatures we normally see 100 to 0 degrees F. OR ISO 32 if we were operating a lot in the -10 to -20 degrees F. 2. He stated while any of the acceptable oils listed above will work, choosing the appropriate viscosity for your climate is very important and keeping the oil clean is critical. 3. Mixing the mineral based oils is not a significant issue since totally draining the system is not cheap or easy. However he stated if you want to change to some of the exotic or biodegradable oils you can have some nasty results if the system is not totally drained and flushed as some of these oils are incompatible with the mineral based hydraulic fluids. 4. If you choose to use the acceptable API Engine Oils and Automatic Transmission Fluids be aware that the oils have a high shear-ability which results in the oil performing at a much thinner viscosity under high loads. For example SAE 10W oil under high load will perform like an SAE 6W under high load. Too thin and you can start having parts rubbing together. 5. Using a Premium Grade Hydraulic Fluid with the correct viscosity will provide maximum protection of the pump and you will get maximum performance. Using any of the other acceptable oils will not hurt the pump as long as they are the correct viscosity for the temperatures you are operating in. [/QUOTE]
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Let's revisit the oil vs. hydraulic question???
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