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<blockquote data-quote="Tigerhaze" data-source="post: 85786" data-attributes="member: 6436"><p>I'm not saying any of this is pertinent to a newer Kubota diesel engine but thought this may be an interesting read that we shared on another equipment bulletin board; in particular the ZDDP issue is interesting (thanks to Jdenaris):</p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">Zinc Dialkyl Dithiophosphates </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">widely used as an anti-wear agent in motor oils to protect heavily loaded parts, particularly </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">the valve train mechanisms (such as the camshaft and cam followers) from excessive wear. It </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">is also used as an anti-wear agent in hydraulic fluids and certain other products. ZDDP is also an </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">effective oxidation inhibitor. Oils containing ZDDP should not be used in engines that </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">employ silver alloy bearings. All car manufacturers before 2007 recommend the use of dialkyl </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">ZDDP in motor oils for passenger car service. ZDDP was the most commonly used additive in engine <span style="color: rgb(255, 209, 0)"><strong>oil</strong></span> for sixty years and is a multi-functional additive which provides the wear protection in almost all engine <span style="color: rgb(255, 209, 0)"><strong>oil</strong></span> </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">formulations. In very simple terms, ZDDP, when heated in the high temperatures of the engine, </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">decomposes to form an extremely thin layer of phosphorous glass over the engine surfaces (sometimes </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">referred to as "glassivation"). This new layer of glass is perpetually worn away and </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">replenished, protecting the metal surfaces from wearing away. </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">The problem for 2007 is that while ZDDP works to protect engines very nicely, it has </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">other performance features that have become "possibly" detrimental in modern automotive </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">engines to certain parts of the emissions and exhaust systems. </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="color: rgb(255, 209, 0)"><strong>Oil</strong></span> companies have been cutting back on the use of Zn and P as anti-wear additives, and </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">turning to alternative zinc-free (ZF) additives and ash-less dispersants since Zn, P, and </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">sulfated ash have been found to be bad for catalytic converters (new low SAPS oils). </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">This reduction is a mandate issued by API, American Petroleum Institute, who is in charge </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">of developing standing standards for motor oils. The latest API SM standard for car oils calls </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">for a zinc and phosphorus content less than 0.08% to reduce sulfur, carbon monoxide, and </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">hydrocarbon emissions. As a result of this mandate, some motor oils now have as little as </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">0.05% zinc and phosphorus - including Shell Rotella T "Triple Protection" blend. Prior to </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">the new CJ-4 API standard for diesel oils, we found most of the CI-4 15w40 and 5w40 oils to have excellent levels of Zn and P. These new API guidelines do not need apply to "racing," "severe duty," or any motor oils </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">that do not carry an API "starburst" seal or clearly state for off-road-use only. Motor oils </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">meeting "Energy Conserving I or II" standards should be avoided as well as those with an API SM </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">classification, with it's lower Zn and P levels, which applies only to 0w20, 0w30, 5w20, </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">5w30, and 10w30 "ILSAC" GF-4 grades. Although having been more sensitive to emissions and </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">the environment than American standards, we find the European ACEA A3 and B3/B4 </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">classifications, which place a cap on P levels at 0.10-0.12%, to be better in taking into </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">consideration wear and engine longevity while limiting emissions and protecting emissions </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">control devices. Although difficult to find, some manufacturers are continuing to produce their CI-4 oils, </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">some of which can be found at your local auto parts stores. Check the label. If it says CI-4 or </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">CI-4+ alone with no mention of a CJ-4, it's probably good. </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">From Mobil: </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">The active ingredient that you are talking about is phosphorus which is added thru a </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">component called ZDDP. For products that meet the new ILSAC GF-4 specification the </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">phosphorus levels for the <span style="color: rgb(255, 209, 0)"><strong>oil</strong></span> must be less than 800 ppm phosphorus. The ILSAC level for </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">phosphorus has been reduced to protect the catalytic converter and other emission </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">protection equipment. The engine manufacturers are confident that this level of </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">phosphorus will protect both new and older engines. However, there are Mobil 1 products </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">which have a higher level of phosphorus (phos) and can be used in engines in racing or </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">high performance applications; see the attached </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">Mobil 1 Turbo-Diesel Truck - has 1100 PPMs of Zinc via ZDDP. Most diesel applications. </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">Applications requiring higher phosphorus (ZDDP), including engines with diesel particulate filters. </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">CJ-4, CI-4, CI-4 Plus, SM, SL </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">-------------------------------------------</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">I was using Shell Rotella T 15W-40 until I ran out of the old-formula <span style="color: rgb(255, 209, 0)"><strong>oil</strong></span>. I'm now using </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">Tractor Supply "Traveller" 15W-40. It doesn't have the new CI-4 diesel rating for </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">automotive emmissions - so I assume it still has the antiwear additives. </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">I still prefer Rotella simply because I've been using it for years - but nobody in my area </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">stocks the old formula anymore. I can special order it - but that brings the price up. </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">The fact is - Shell does not post the amount of ZDDP in their tech-sheets for the new </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">Rotella. So, I wonder why? Regulations require it to be below .08% and I've read that </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">the new Rotella "Triple Protection" is at .05%. </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">Older engines need <span style="color: rgb(255, 209, 0)"><strong>oil</strong></span> at over .1%. So, the new Shell Rotella T does not have it. </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">The Mobil website makes things much clearer - and plainly states that they no longer make </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">a diesel-<span style="color: rgb(255, 209, 0)"><strong>oil</strong></span> rated for older engines EXCEPT their synthetic. Their Mobil 1 Turbo-Diesel </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">Truck <span style="color: rgb(255, 209, 0)"><strong>oil</strong></span> has .11 % ZDDP. In the future, I might start using that <span style="color: rgb(255, 209, 0)"><strong>oil</strong></span>. </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">Back to Rotella, the older formual Rotella T Mulitgrade has .12% ZDDP. The new </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">Rotella T Triple Protection only has .05% - going by what is posted at other sources. Shell </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">does not give the info.</span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tigerhaze, post: 85786, member: 6436"] I'm not saying any of this is pertinent to a newer Kubota diesel engine but thought this may be an interesting read that we shared on another equipment bulletin board; in particular the ZDDP issue is interesting (thanks to Jdenaris): [SIZE=2]Zinc Dialkyl Dithiophosphates widely used as an anti-wear agent in motor oils to protect heavily loaded parts, particularly the valve train mechanisms (such as the camshaft and cam followers) from excessive wear. It is also used as an anti-wear agent in hydraulic fluids and certain other products. ZDDP is also an effective oxidation inhibitor. Oils containing ZDDP should not be used in engines that employ silver alloy bearings. All car manufacturers before 2007 recommend the use of dialkyl ZDDP in motor oils for passenger car service. ZDDP was the most commonly used additive in engine [COLOR=rgb(255, 209, 0)][B]oil[/B][/COLOR] for sixty years and is a multi-functional additive which provides the wear protection in almost all engine [COLOR=rgb(255, 209, 0)][B]oil[/B][/COLOR] formulations. In very simple terms, ZDDP, when heated in the high temperatures of the engine, decomposes to form an extremely thin layer of phosphorous glass over the engine surfaces (sometimes referred to as "glassivation"). This new layer of glass is perpetually worn away and replenished, protecting the metal surfaces from wearing away. The problem for 2007 is that while ZDDP works to protect engines very nicely, it has other performance features that have become "possibly" detrimental in modern automotive engines to certain parts of the emissions and exhaust systems. [COLOR=rgb(255, 209, 0)][B]Oil[/B][/COLOR] companies have been cutting back on the use of Zn and P as anti-wear additives, and turning to alternative zinc-free (ZF) additives and ash-less dispersants since Zn, P, and sulfated ash have been found to be bad for catalytic converters (new low SAPS oils). This reduction is a mandate issued by API, American Petroleum Institute, who is in charge of developing standing standards for motor oils. The latest API SM standard for car oils calls for a zinc and phosphorus content less than 0.08% to reduce sulfur, carbon monoxide, and hydrocarbon emissions. As a result of this mandate, some motor oils now have as little as 0.05% zinc and phosphorus - including Shell Rotella T "Triple Protection" blend. Prior to the new CJ-4 API standard for diesel oils, we found most of the CI-4 15w40 and 5w40 oils to have excellent levels of Zn and P. These new API guidelines do not need apply to “racing,” “severe duty,” or any motor oils that do not carry an API “starburst” seal or clearly state for off-road-use only. Motor oils meeting “Energy Conserving I or II” standards should be avoided as well as those with an API SM classification, with it's lower Zn and P levels, which applies only to 0w20, 0w30, 5w20, 5w30, and 10w30 "ILSAC" GF-4 grades. Although having been more sensitive to emissions and the environment than American standards, we find the European ACEA A3 and B3/B4 classifications, which place a cap on P levels at 0.10-0.12%, to be better in taking into consideration wear and engine longevity while limiting emissions and protecting emissions control devices. Although difficult to find, some manufacturers are continuing to produce their CI-4 oils, some of which can be found at your local auto parts stores. Check the label. If it says CI-4 or CI-4+ alone with no mention of a CJ-4, it's probably good. From Mobil: The active ingredient that you are talking about is phosphorus which is added thru a component called ZDDP. For products that meet the new ILSAC GF-4 specification the phosphorus levels for the [COLOR=rgb(255, 209, 0)][B]oil[/B][/COLOR] must be less than 800 ppm phosphorus. The ILSAC level for phosphorus has been reduced to protect the catalytic converter and other emission protection equipment. The engine manufacturers are confident that this level of phosphorus will protect both new and older engines. However, there are Mobil 1 products which have a higher level of phosphorus (phos) and can be used in engines in racing or high performance applications; see the attached Mobil 1 Turbo-Diesel Truck - has 1100 PPMs of Zinc via ZDDP. Most diesel applications. Applications requiring higher phosphorus (ZDDP), including engines with diesel particulate filters. CJ-4, CI-4, CI-4 Plus, SM, SL ------------------------------------------- I was using Shell Rotella T 15W-40 until I ran out of the old-formula [COLOR=rgb(255, 209, 0)][B]oil[/B][/COLOR]. I'm now using Tractor Supply "Traveller" 15W-40. It doesn't have the new CI-4 diesel rating for automotive emmissions - so I assume it still has the antiwear additives. I still prefer Rotella simply because I've been using it for years - but nobody in my area stocks the old formula anymore. I can special order it - but that brings the price up. The fact is - Shell does not post the amount of ZDDP in their tech-sheets for the new Rotella. So, I wonder why? Regulations require it to be below .08% and I've read that the new Rotella "Triple Protection" is at .05%. Older engines need [COLOR=rgb(255, 209, 0)][B]oil[/B][/COLOR] at over .1%. So, the new Shell Rotella T does not have it. The Mobil website makes things much clearer - and plainly states that they no longer make a diesel-[COLOR=rgb(255, 209, 0)][B]oil[/B][/COLOR] rated for older engines EXCEPT their synthetic. Their Mobil 1 Turbo-Diesel Truck [COLOR=rgb(255, 209, 0)][B]oil[/B][/COLOR] has .11 % ZDDP. In the future, I might start using that [COLOR=rgb(255, 209, 0)][B]oil[/B][/COLOR]. Back to Rotella, the older formual Rotella T Mulitgrade has .12% ZDDP. The new Rotella T Triple Protection only has .05% - going by what is posted at other sources. Shell does not give the info.[/SIZE] [/QUOTE]
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