C190. Brake issue

[Tyke]

I have a 2007 C190 which has developed an issue with the brakes. Runs fine until hot then the brakes start to squeal. If the machine is brought to a halt the brakes can be felt coming on. They are not fully locked and the machine will move forward but the brakes are clearly binding. Hydraulic pressure to tracks and arms appears good. This machine has pilot controls and they appear responsive. Any ideas would help Thanks

 

[Tyke]

OK got a bit further. Can anyone tell me what the sequence valve does on the brake valve block? Is it associated with the brakes or is it for the two speed circuit? Thanks

 

[Tyke]

OK got a bit further. Can anyone tell me what the sequence valve does on the brake valve block? Is it associated with the brakes or is it for the two speed circuit? Thanks

So here is what I have discovered so far: 1. New Holland as a company have basically washed their hands of support for past models with zero customer support at corporate level. 2. New Holland's idea of technical support is based on the knowledge, expertise and good will of their dealer network. In this case I have a great local dealer, unfortunately they have zero experience with the C190 openly admitting that they have never seen one let alone worked on one. The next closest dealer is 3 hours away and while they claim some knowledge of the C190, their stock response is get the machine to them and booked in for evaluation. In other words New Holland's technical assistance is only available if you pay them to do the job (assuming that they have the ability to do that) 3. New Hollands manuals cover too wide a range of models to be useful in the event of a true out of the ordinary problem. Rather they cover very mundane maintenance and repair processes with a very broad brush. 4. With the prospect of facing a repair bill that will exceed the value of the machine, New Hollands dealer approach is to offer information on their current product line. With the mind numbing experience of their responses to my current problem the likely hood of buying another New Holland is simply never going to happen. At this point I feel driving past the dealership raises my blood pressure. Never return to the scene of the crime! Ok so with all that off my chest I can tell you that with solid support from local hydraulic experts and a couple of experienced mobile mechanics (non of whom have seen a C190) we are now closer to finding the issue. In conclusion I might add that in the process of the journey I feel now very confident that I know more about the C190 than anyone in a 500 mile radius! (and definitely more than New Holland US) The saga continues ...

 

[Tazza]

So here is what I have discovered so far: 1. New Holland as a company have basically washed their hands of support for past models with zero customer support at corporate level. 2. New Holland's idea of technical support is based on the knowledge, expertise and good will of their dealer network. In this case I have a great local dealer, unfortunately they have zero experience with the C190 openly admitting that they have never seen one let alone worked on one. The next closest dealer is 3 hours away and while they claim some knowledge of the C190, their stock response is get the machine to them and booked in for evaluation. In other words New Holland's technical assistance is only available if you pay them to do the job (assuming that they have the ability to do that) 3. New Hollands manuals cover too wide a range of models to be useful in the event of a true out of the ordinary problem. Rather they cover very mundane maintenance and repair processes with a very broad brush. 4. With the prospect of facing a repair bill that will exceed the value of the machine, New Hollands dealer approach is to offer information on their current product line. With the mind numbing experience of their responses to my current problem the likely hood of buying another New Holland is simply never going to happen. At this point I feel driving past the dealership raises my blood pressure. Never return to the scene of the crime! Ok so with all that off my chest I can tell you that with solid support from local hydraulic experts and a couple of experienced mobile mechanics (non of whom have seen a C190) we are now closer to finding the issue. In conclusion I might add that in the process of the journey I feel now very confident that I know more about the C190 than anyone in a 500 mile radius! (and definitely more than New Holland US) The saga continues ...

This is whrer i feel bobcat really shine, their prices can be a bit high, but they still offer parts and service for pretty well every machine they ever made. My dealer is happy to give out information without your credit card number first.
Sadly i can't help with your machine, never worked on one.

 

[Tyke]

This is whrer i feel bobcat really shine, their prices can be a bit high, but they still offer parts and service for pretty well every machine they ever made. My dealer is happy to give out information without your credit card number first.
Sadly i can't help with your machine, never worked on one.

Its been a while ! Latest update on the C190 brake issue. I have left the machine all summer as I didnt need it and struggled to find the enthusiasm. With winter approaching I decided that I really needed to look at the machine again while its possible to work in the sun. The underlaying problem with the machine is that the brakes activate spontaneously while in use. The other functions of the machine do not appear to be affected. Armed with a pressure gauge, I removed the pressure switch on the brake block and inserted the gauge. What appeared to be happening once engine was started, the charge pressure went to 320psi at idle. If the brakes were released the pressure dipped for a second then back to 320psi. If the arm and bucket was activated, no change to charge pressure was noted. However once the joystick was moved to forward direction the charge pressure dipped to 240psi. All this with machine on idle. As engine revs were raised pressure went back up but not steady. The issue then appeared to be that charge pressure is dipping below brake actuation level as machine is tracked forward and backward. With that in mind I had to devise a plan to prove if the brakes were faulty which would require removing both hydrostatic motors or if the fault was elsewhere. Having looked closely at the diagram of the brake /2 speed block I had an idea. Trip to the local hydraulics experts and they made me a short line (about 18") with female ends both side. I also picked up parts to make an adaptor block with male ends on both sides, a port for a pressure guage and a standard hydraulic quick coupler. I disconnected the brake lines from the brake block assembly and connected the the new hydraulic line in their place, basically creating a closed loop in in place of the brake lines. The brake lines themselves were then attached to either end of the new connector block, with a 500psi pressure gauge connected to the spare port. I then started the machine as usual. There were no alarms or unwanted lights, the machine ran but the brakes obviously were locked on. Now the clever part. I attached a porta power to the hydraulic coupler on the new connector block and pumped up the pressure to 300psi. Hey presto the brakes released. I have run the machine up and down for well over 1 hour and the pressure does not move or bleed down indicating that the brakes are not the issue. I will point out here that the machine does not work for a living and only I drive it. While running the machine in the state may contravene some OSHA rules, I have no problem. With this temporary fix in place I can now use the machine while I consider where next to look for the fluctuating charge pressure. I have a sneaking suspicion that he 2 speed system is the issue as its on the same block as the brakes and shares both a charge feed and return line. More to follow ...