Bobcat 863F no lift!?

[Timjame]

Hello all. New to this forum. I've been searching through this and other places for an answer or direction for a few weeks but can't seem to pinpoint my issue. Hopefully I can put this problem to rest! It's driving me nuts. I have a 99 bobcat 863F (non AHC). I bought this machine a month ago needing a new turbo. When I bought it I watched with my own eyes the bucket curl and arms lift. I put it on my trailer and drove it home. As soon as I get it home I noticed that the arms wouldn't lift. The pedal was locked-solid. I made sure the safety bar was down and the bar pressed the manual lock then I pressed the operate button. Nothing. The bucket curled but no arm movement because the pedal was locked. I just figured I was doing something wrong. All lights (on panel below my right arm) are lit when I try to move the lift pedal. After I finished the turbo replacement I changed all filters and hydraulic fluid. Noticed the same problem existed. Left (lift pedal) locked but tilt is fine. I'm not familiar enoug with this machine to figure it out just yet. I swapped coils on the top of the valve control block. No change. Does this machine have a solenoid lock? Could the pedal lock if it has no pressure? Feels like some actual pin internally is holding it in place. I can disconnect the linkage from the pedal to the spool and it's not in the linkage. It won't budge from the block. Any help is greatly appreciated!!

 

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make sure the seatbar is depressing the white plastic things that lock and unlock the pedals. my guess is the plastic wore away enough that it does not engage anymore. try pushing the two white things by hand

 

[Timjame]

make sure the seatbar is depressing the white plastic things that lock and unlock the pedals. my guess is the plastic wore away enough that it does not engage anymore. try pushing the two white things by hand

Definitely disengaged from that. I can see the pin from that white plastic safety and it's not holding the pedal at all. Unfortunately my issue lies inside the valve control. I can disconnect the pedal linkage and it's the spool that won't budge. As of now I'm at a loss.

 

[Timjame]

Definitely disengaged from that. I can see the pin from that white plastic safety and it's not holding the pedal at all. Unfortunately my issue lies inside the valve control. I can disconnect the pedal linkage and it's the spool that won't budge. As of now I'm at a loss.

Anybody have any ideas or know if there's some sort of solenoid lock that this may have? I can't see anything with wires beyond the top two coils and side coil that are connected to valves. They don't have any kind of magnetic Licking rod in them that I know of.

 

[Tazza]

Anybody have any ideas or know if there's some sort of solenoid lock that this may have? I can't see anything with wires beyond the top two coils and side coil that are connected to valves. They don't have any kind of magnetic Licking rod in them that I know of.

I replied to your other thread on this with the same advise about the plastic bits.
As it's not the issue, sounds like the spool is stuck in the control block? A spring may have broken on the detent has fallen apart in the cap on the rear of the spool causing it to bind up.

 

[Timjame]

I replied to your other thread on this with the same advise about the plastic bits.
As it's not the issue, sounds like the spool is stuck in the control block? A spring may have broken on the detent has fallen apart in the cap on the rear of the spool causing it to bind up.

That's would make sense to me. I believe are correct that the spool is locked in there. I can't get it to move so not knowing this machine much I was thinking maybe there's a spool lock attached to a solenoid that may be bad. I don't think I actually have one. I think with my machine if I don't press the unlock button the valves open and allow its operation and not some sort of lock. I can move my tilt pedal back and forth freely and if I try to use the tilt prior to pressing the unlock button I can still move my tilt pedal back and forth, it just doesn't move the bucket. With the lift pedal I can't phusically get it to budge. It's stuck whether the unlock button is pressed or not whether it's on or off. Even with the machine off my tilt pedal moves freely. I suppose I will have to figure out the control valve now to see what to take apart and why my spool is frozen in there....

 

[Tazza]

That's would make sense to me. I believe are correct that the spool is locked in there. I can't get it to move so not knowing this machine much I was thinking maybe there's a spool lock attached to a solenoid that may be bad. I don't think I actually have one. I think with my machine if I don't press the unlock button the valves open and allow its operation and not some sort of lock. I can move my tilt pedal back and forth freely and if I try to use the tilt prior to pressing the unlock button I can still move my tilt pedal back and forth, it just doesn't move the bucket. With the lift pedal I can't phusically get it to budge. It's stuck whether the unlock button is pressed or not whether it's on or off. Even with the machine off my tilt pedal moves freely. I suppose I will have to figure out the control valve now to see what to take apart and why my spool is frozen in there....

The lift lock is a separate valve that locks the lift function of the valve, the pedal will move, but the oil will not.
There are balls and springs that are used to enable the float function of the lift section of the valve, it's possible that is the cause.
Check out this thread, it shows what you will see inside the valve:
http://www.skidsteerforum.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=54&frmView=ShowPost&PostID=51050
Sadly it doesn't show detail of what is in the lift section behind the cap, but i believe this is where your problem is. Remove the 2 bolts and retaining clip on the back and see if you can get the cover to come off. With the cover off, carefully see if you can slide the inner cap off the spool, there should be balls and springs inside, so be careful they don't fly out.

 

[Timjame]

The lift lock is a separate valve that locks the lift function of the valve, the pedal will move, but the oil will not.
There are balls and springs that are used to enable the float function of the lift section of the valve, it's possible that is the cause.
Check out this thread, it shows what you will see inside the valve:
http://www.skidsteerforum.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=54&frmView=ShowPost&PostID=51050
Sadly it doesn't show detail of what is in the lift section behind the cap, but i believe this is where your problem is. Remove the 2 bolts and retaining clip on the back and see if you can get the cover to come off. With the cover off, carefully see if you can slide the inner cap off the spool, there should be balls and springs inside, so be careful they don't fly out.

That's what I was looking for. Thanks! I tried today a little to get the cap off but there's just too much in the way. I'm going to have to remove the whole control valve I believe. If I thought I could figure out/Fox the issue without removing the whole spool I may try harder to get the cap off instead of pulling the entire valve box...

 

[Tazza]

That's what I was looking for. Thanks! I tried today a little to get the cap off but there's just too much in the way. I'm going to have to remove the whole control valve I believe. If I thought I could figure out/Fox the issue without removing the whole spool I may try harder to get the cap off instead of pulling the entire valve box...

The cap should come off without pulling the valve. Ideally, you can remove the spool without pulling the valve out to do so. I know access isn't great...

 

[Timjame]

The cap should come off without pulling the valve. Ideally, you can remove the spool without pulling the valve out to do so. I know access isn't great...

Ok sorry it's been a while. Finally got a chance to mess with this issue. I could not get the spool out due to access. I'm sure if I messed long enough with it maybe I could have but decided since it was total caked in grease anyway I would just pull it out. That sucked. Never want to do that again but here's what I found. The spool for the lift definitely won't move back any. If I remove the E clip and washer then cap it moves just fine. Guessing the one of the balls or spring is messed up (maybe the ball somegow got loose and is in the cap? Either way having a hard time getting the detent sleeve off to even see the detent balls or spring. Shouldn't it just pull off and spring/detent balls fall out? Been pulling and yanking and it won't come off the spool!

 

[Timjame]

Ok sorry it's been a while. Finally got a chance to mess with this issue. I could not get the spool out due to access. I'm sure if I messed long enough with it maybe I could have but decided since it was total caked in grease anyway I would just pull it out. That sucked. Never want to do that again but here's what I found. The spool for the lift definitely won't move back any. If I remove the E clip and washer then cap it moves just fine. Guessing the one of the balls or spring is messed up (maybe the ball somegow got loose and is in the cap? Either way having a hard time getting the detent sleeve off to even see the detent balls or spring. Shouldn't it just pull off and spring/detent balls fall out? Been pulling and yanking and it won't come off the spool!

It spins around freely but the sleeve won't come off. Am I missing something?