ASV RT75 Unexplainable Fire

[MT Ranch]

Hello everyone, we had an engine fire on our 2021 RT75. It seems that the fire was caused by no plug being in the bottom of the muffler. ASV has denied any warranty claim, ASV Now says no plug is needed in the bottom of the muffler, it's there for condensation to leak out. We've gone to a dealer and looked at a brand new machine which had no plug in it. when we started the machine It's blowing straight hot exhaust right on top of the motors plastic valve cover, wiring harness and fuel rail. The dealer just scratched his head in disbelief. Has anyone else had this situation? and does any of your machines have a plug in it? or signs of burning Melting ? Thanks for any input. The engine compartment was spotless, and only used for snow removal. 213 hrs on it.

 

[foton]

That is a design flaw,no question to me. asv ought to repair at least ! and thank you for making them aware of this problem.

 

[MT Ranch]

ASV's attorney has made it very clear they are not interested in investigating the cause of the fire Or how to prevent it from happening again. His job is to deny warranty claims and define those denials at all cost. It is a shame ASV will not take the time to talk with their customers to make its products safer and better

 

[foton]

let a person die in one of those machines and see what happens when it is found out there was a cover up.

 

[cdmccul]

Talk to a few dealers. Talk to asv again. Tell them you will continue your quest to find answers and make others aware of the life threatening issue.

Go to a dealer and let the engine run... Bring a non-contact thermometer with you and record temps. Explain that you'd like to measure temp under load.

DOCUMENT DOCUMENT DOCUMENT!

Call a lawyer.

Report back to ASV. Bring them your findings.

If they ignore you...

Then start talking to YouTube personalities with a following. AvE comes to mind. Make it plain - you're out here to WARN others for the SAFETY OF USERS, not here to bash ASV. Be loud, but not accusing.

Then, with it published online... Go anonymously point it to news outlets where the home office of ASV is. Where manufacturing is. Where you are.

Remember, you're not dragging them through the mud, you're saving lives!

 

[Markle]

I agree. Once the issue is documented and it is brought to their attention, and possibly also sent to the Consumer Product Safety Commission also, they both have a duty to thoroughly look into this to prevent harm, injury, death. If the manufacturer does not act after being informed, and if the issue does cause harm , their previous inaction created a "willful" breach of a duty to prevent harm.
In the 1990s, I had a Stihl chainsaw whose muffler configuration directed hot exhaust to an area of the chain brake which burned the plastic, and eventually would have impaired the function to activate the chainbrake to prevent injury. I wrote to Stihl corporate in Virginia Beach. They acted pretty quickly, and sent me a redesigned muffler.

 

[MT Ranch]

As others here have stated, I want to get the word out to as many ASV owners (RT75) as possible of this potential design or manufacturing safety issue. ASV owners at that point can take steps they deem appropriate to protect their safety and their investment in the equipment. Some owners on other forums have stated they have a plug in the unused muffler sensor port, but the majority do not. It is not known if it was plugged by a dealer recognizing the safety concern and using common sense or if it came from the factory that way.

Talking with a third-party fire investigator he indicated that there have been quite a few RT75 fires, however these units are heavily marketed to forestry applications and was told most are burnt up beyond investigation and it was easy to just point to the cleanliness of the unit as the potential problem. A fire in a forestry application could create a catastrophic forest fire.

I have no problem with the capabilities of the RT75 it had its quarks like any machine but overall it operated well and was my go to unit. I actually talked it up every chance I got, right up until the time it spontaneously combusted for no identifiable reason according to ASV. ASV makes a good unit, I think the problem is management and how they treat the customer after the fact. I thought going with a small company would provide better service I was wrong, the poor after the sale treatment seems to be common practice based on other owners experiences with ASV.

 

[dfb]

It would not surprise me if the new machines suddenly have a change in design as they deny it being a problem at the same time.

 

[cdmccul]

It would not surprise me if the new machines suddenly have a change in design as they deny it being a problem at the same time.

Oh yes. I've seen that a lot in the automotive world.

 

[MT Ranch]

I have received a "Notice of Defamation" from the ASV Attorney apparently his job is not to deny warranty claims it is to represent ASV. I do not know if ASV takes the time to talk with their customers to make its products safer and better , in my experience this has not been the case. I am sorry about my belief of the ASV attorneys role.

 

[MT Ranch]

The Notice of Defamation specifically referenced this site.

 

[foton]

sounds like they are using hunter bidens lawyers too.

 

[cdmccul]

The Notice of Defamation specifically referenced this site.

Woah! So they do read!!

 

[ddbackhoe]

sounds like they are using hunter bidens lawyers too.

They are trying to say that its not a warranty claim because of the fire. They want your insurance to pay for the damages. Even if they reimburse your insurance, the product defect you claim is there wont be publicized. Your claim is that its a product defect that ruined your machine.
Your state attorney generals office should be able to help you file a consumer complaint. Also. helpful to file with the state ASV corporate is in (Mn?). However, did you notice that ASV was bought out by Yanmar? Yanmar's america office is in Ga. Personally, I'd file with all of them.
There is also the consumer product safety commission

State attorneys general | USAGov

Contact your attorney general, who is the top legal officer in your state or territory. They can help with consumer complaints, enforce laws, and more.

www.usa.gov

CPSC Consumer Ombudsman

www.cpsc.gov

Alvin Bragg and his ilk need to crawl back under their rocks. Intimidation and coercion tactics rarely triumph.

 

[MT Ranch]

As I mentioned above, I wanted to get the word out to as many ASV owners (RT75) as possible of this potential design or manufacturing safety issue so ASV owners at that point can take steps they deem appropriate to protect their safety and their investment in the equipment.

We rebuilt our unit for about $40,000 out of our pockets. New engine, wiring harness, and hoses. ASV and Cummins still have not provided any letter or documentation that as designed without a plug and with exhaust blowing into the engine compartment directly on the engine is not a fire hazard. Not sure if they intend to, however I have continued to request documentation and have yet to receive anything. Cummins did send out their fire investigator along with a Cummins rep however I have not received anything back on that either. In the field they said the fire was caused by the missing plug, however now they say that was only a hypotheses (guess they know who butters their bread). Other customers on other forums have reported they have found components are noticeably crispy in their engine compartment directly under the unplugged, open muffler port. I would like to protect the substantial reinvestment we have had to make rebuilding the unit and would not want to see a fire in another 200 hours.

It is my PERSONAL OPINION AND BELIEF that ASV does not want to address this potential issue. I feel I have been personally attacked, belittled, and now threatened with legal action by ASV legal for investigating the cause of the fire and asking questions of other ASV owners, ASV Dealership staff, and Mechanics. This (in my opinion) is clearly an intimidation tactic employed by ASV against its customers. Ironically, much of the advice I have received has been to seek legal action against ASV, yet ASV is the one threatening legal action against its customer.

 

[cdmccul]

Sounds like to me that ASV had a chance to MAKE CUSTOMERS or DROP CUSTOMERS.

Let's see if they want to struggle, or succeed.

Let's keep the traction in this thread.

I will cross post this to a couple of places I frequent. PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW WHAT COMPANIES ARE SAFE AND CARE, AND WHAT COMPANIES WANT TOO SHUTTER.




(Edit: Wow, I need to proof read)

 

[foton]

as a suggestion , the port was left open to vent out water,moisture. take a exaust flapper like semis and tractors use on to keep the rain out and plug the hole. I think that would work better than I assume curved end on the exaust pipe. As a note I have heard that people who transport heavy eq. look at when they load the positioning of exausts to make sure if it rains while they are driving rain does not get blown down curved exaust pipes. And the seal off as necessary.

 

[Topper1]

When did anyone ever get concerned about water inside of a 800-1000*F muffler anyway. I'm assuming a pyro would register somewhere in that range under load. And seriously, if it regularly rained that heavily, as foton stated, a standard curved tip, or farmer flapper has sufficed for nearly every industrial piece of equipment of all brands for decades. Not 1 single piece of my equipment has any type of "drain" on any muffler or exhaust system. Breathing hot exhaust onto any ignitable surface is generally a bad idea. Period...

 

[ASV Compact Equipment]

Hello everyone, we had an engine fire on our 2021 RT75. It seems that the fire was caused by no plug being in the bottom of the muffler. ASV has denied any warranty claim, ASV Now says no plug is needed in the bottom of the muffler, it's there for condensation to leak out. We've gone to a dealer and looked at a brand new machine which had no plug in it. when we started the machine It's blowing straight hot exhaust right on top of the motors plastic valve cover, wiring harness and fuel rail. The dealer just scratched his head in disbelief. Has anyone else had this situation? and does any of your machines have a plug in it? or signs of burning Melting ? Thanks for any input. The engine compartment was spotless, and only used for snow removal. 213 hrs on it.

In response to this concern:

The Diesel Oxygen Catalyst (DOC)/Muffler should not have a plug in the bottom port, per Cummins engineering. The bottom port is a moisture/condensation drain and should be open to let the moisture/condensation out of the DOC. The front and rear ports should be plugged (ports are for other DOC mounting in other directions for other applications).

The attached diagram, provided by Cummins engineering, shows correct orientation of the bottom drain hole.

We highly recommend ASV customers DO NOT plug the bottom port of the DOC on the RT-75. Improper modification of the port could result in damaging the equipment. This port is open on all ASV RT-75 units and was open in testing and validation of the product. Other causes are believed to be involved in the forementioned fire.

-ASV Compact Equipment

 

[cdmccul]

In response to this concern:

The Diesel Oxygen Catalyst (DOC)/Muffler should not have a plug in the bottom port, per Cummins engineering. The bottom port is a moisture/condensation drain and should be open to let the moisture/condensation out of the DOC. The front and rear ports should be plugged (ports are for other DOC mounting in other directions for other applications).

The attached diagram, provided by Cummins engineering, shows correct orientation of the bottom drain hole.

We highly recommend ASV customers DO NOT plug the bottom port of the DOC on the RT-75. Improper modification of the port could result in damaging the equipment. This port is open on all ASV RT-75 units and was open in testing and validation of the product. Other causes are believed to be involved in the forementioned fire.

-ASV Compact Equipment

So, what about placement of the "aftertreatment device"? Does Cummins have anything to say about that? If some random manufacturer places a Cummins engine in some random device... And then places something flammable directly under the torch tip - err, drain hole... Wouldn't that become a point of head scratching?