863 intermittent "hard to start"

[mmsllc]

As of right now, it is not able to start on it's own. When it will not start, this is what it does. So, this machine will crank over for about 3 seconds, before it will no longer crank / attempt to start. You have to turn the key off before it will crank over again. But, even after trying to start again, it will not start. When it stops cranking over, it seems as if the computer is interfering with the engine cranking. Even with a battery charger, it does the same exact thing. All fluids are good. New battery. Good cables & connections. Obvious signs of fuel smoke coming from the exhaust pipe.

 

[Tazza]

I wonder if the speed sensor has gone bad? there is a sensor on the bell housing to give feedback to the computer about the rotation of the engine. If it's not working, the computer may think the starter is on, but not spinning and shuts down with an error.
Hopefully someone can confirm this though.

 

[mmsllc]

I wonder if the speed sensor has gone bad? there is a sensor on the bell housing to give feedback to the computer about the rotation of the engine. If it's not working, the computer may think the starter is on, but not spinning and shuts down with an error.
Hopefully someone can confirm this though.

I am hoping that it is that simple. I can't see much else that it could be. The only thing that really confuses me is that I can see quite a bit of fuel smoke coming out of the exhaust. It seems like that the engine would start since there is fuel getting into the engine.

 

[Bobcatdan]

I am hoping that it is that simple. I can't see much else that it could be. The only thing that really confuses me is that I can see quite a bit of fuel smoke coming out of the exhaust. It seems like that the engine would start since there is fuel getting into the engine.

I'd swap the starter relay.

 

[mmsllc]

I'd swap the starter relay.

I finally had time to check it out today. I found that the electrical connector had signs of heat & the solenoid terminals look almost burned. I had the cleaned up, but will not start without a quick shot of ether. After a tad of ether, it fires right up, but still will not restart w/o a shot of ether. I am leaning towards a bad fuel shut down solenoid. Can anyone give me an electrical diagram or tell me which terminals are supposed to have power & ground?? I am really looking forward to fixing this ASAP so I can start using it again.

 

[mmsllc]

I finally had time to check it out today. I found that the electrical connector had signs of heat & the solenoid terminals look almost burned. I had the cleaned up, but will not start without a quick shot of ether. After a tad of ether, it fires right up, but still will not restart w/o a shot of ether. I am leaning towards a bad fuel shut down solenoid. Can anyone give me an electrical diagram or tell me which terminals are supposed to have power & ground?? I am really looking forward to fixing this ASAP so I can start using it again.

Any further thoughts on this???

 

[Tazza]

Any further thoughts on this???

Have you tried removing the fuel shut off solenoid? not that i can see that being the issue of hard starting as you hit it with ether and it's up and away. Sounds more like it's not glowing to get it hot enough to start?

 

[mmsllc]

Have you tried removing the fuel shut off solenoid? not that i can see that being the issue of hard starting as you hit it with ether and it's up and away. Sounds more like it's not glowing to get it hot enough to start?

In warm weather, does it really need the glow plugs to start?? I rarely ever use them in other bobcat models & they always seem to fire up perfectly. I'm going to look it over really good in the next few days. I'll let you know what I find out. I will remove the solenoid & "see what happens"!!

 

[Tazza]

In warm weather, does it really need the glow plugs to start?? I rarely ever use them in other bobcat models & they always seem to fire up perfectly. I'm going to look it over really good in the next few days. I'll let you know what I find out. I will remove the solenoid & "see what happens"!!

It depends on the engine really.
The 743s i have owned with V1702 engines NEEDED glowing every time. The newer machines with V2203 engines would fire up without a glow.
The 863 engines may be a little cooler blooded and needs the plugs.

 

[7LBSSMALLIE]

It depends on the engine really.
The 743s i have owned with V1702 engines NEEDED glowing every time. The newer machines with V2203 engines would fire up without a glow.
The 863 engines may be a little cooler blooded and needs the plugs.

863 duetz fuel shutoff solenoid. NOTE. oringal solenoid has been updated. requires attention to instructions. you WILL smoke the new one if you dont pay attetion.

 

[mmsllc]

863 duetz fuel shutoff solenoid. NOTE. oringal solenoid has been updated. requires attention to instructions. you WILL smoke the new one if you dont pay attetion.

BUT, will a bad fuel shut down solenoid cause it to quit cranking over after 3 seconds of cranking??? This issue is bizarre to me!!! I need this thing to start reliably so I can sell it to someone that NEEDS it. The only other odd thing I have seen is the "GLO" / glow plug timer does not always count down to zero. I have a 753 with a good operating "GLO" timer & I know what it is supposed to do, but just not in this case. I'm CON-FUZZLED!!

 

[Vintagecarlover]

BUT, will a bad fuel shut down solenoid cause it to quit cranking over after 3 seconds of cranking??? This issue is bizarre to me!!! I need this thing to start reliably so I can sell it to someone that NEEDS it. The only other odd thing I have seen is the "GLO" / glow plug timer does not always count down to zero. I have a 753 with a good operating "GLO" timer & I know what it is supposed to do, but just not in this case. I'm CON-FUZZLED!!

Having same kinda problems. What was the problem and what fixed your problem?

 

[mmsllc]

Having same kinda problems. What was the problem and what fixed your problem?

NO! To be fair though, I have had to put this on the back burner for a while.

 

[mmsllc]

NO! To be fair though, I have had to put this on the back burner for a while.

UPDATE: I have gotten two (2) trouble codes from the machine after it fails to start. They are: 22-03 & 03-09. I have seen the vague meanings of both of these codes. Is there any possibility of getting a diagnostic flow chart for either /both of these codes? Any help will be infinitely appreciated. Thanks.

 

[bobbie-g]

UPDATE: I have gotten two (2) trouble codes from the machine after it fails to start. They are: 22-03 & 03-09. I have seen the vague meanings of both of these codes. Is there any possibility of getting a diagnostic flow chart for either /both of these codes? Any help will be infinitely appreciated. Thanks.

Found this list of codes on the web --- http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/HE/HeavyEquipmentTech/2013-08-10_042210_bobcat_fault_codes.pdf ---Bobbie-G

 

[Tazza]

Found this list of codes on the web --- http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/HE/HeavyEquipmentTech/2013-08-10_042210_bobcat_fault_codes.pdf ---Bobbie-G

That is the exact same file i have too

 

[mmsllc]

That is the exact same file i have too

Well, I have solved the "low voltage" code by locating & replacing a badly burnt 25-amp fuse. It was not simply blown, though. It was burnt. I cleaned up the fuse panel as best as I could & the code has never come back. The other "22-03" code is still present & the machine will still not start with the key switch. Can anyone furnish a fuse panel diagram that depicts the purpose for each fuse & relay? Also, does anyone have access to a flow chart type of diagnostic approach to better diagnose the trouble code 22-03??

 

[BC873G]

Well, I have solved the "low voltage" code by locating & replacing a badly burnt 25-amp fuse. It was not simply blown, though. It was burnt. I cleaned up the fuse panel as best as I could & the code has never come back. The other "22-03" code is still present & the machine will still not start with the key switch. Can anyone furnish a fuse panel diagram that depicts the purpose for each fuse & relay? Also, does anyone have access to a flow chart type of diagnostic approach to better diagnose the trouble code 22-03??

Hi, I can email you an diagnosis flow chart for G series machine for the 22-03 error. Just let me know where to send it.

 

[mmsllc]

Hi, I can email you an diagnosis flow chart for G series machine for the 22-03 error. Just let me know where to send it.

Thanks man. my email is
MobileMechanicSolutions
at
yahoo.com
Changed your email to help prevent spam - Tazza