742 hard to turn engine over

[teammontana]

Have a 742 with Ford engine that hasn't been started for many years. Drained and cleaned gas tank. The suction hose in the tank had dissolved which may be why it wouldn't start Originally. When I try to start it, it turns over a few times then won't turn over. After awhile, it turns over, then wont again. Battery tests good and have even put a second battery in line for more amps. Same thing, turns over a few times then no more. Could there be hydraulic drag, and how can that be solved? That was in the trouble shooting list in the manual but no solution. Thank you, Larry

 

[teammontana]

I pulled the plugs and the motor turns over easy with a socket on the crank so I am thinking the starter may be weak. Pull that out tomorrow and check it out.

 

[brdgbldr]

Have a 742 with Ford engine that hasn't been started for many years. Drained and cleaned gas tank. The suction hose in the tank had dissolved which may be why it wouldn't start Originally. When I try to start it, it turns over a few times then won't turn over. After awhile, it turns over, then wont again. Battery tests good and have even put a second battery in line for more amps. Same thing, turns over a few times then no more. Could there be hydraulic drag, and how can that be solved? That was in the trouble shooting list in the manual but no solution. Thank you, Larry

Make sure you pull the right lever all the way to the left. This will disengage the auxiliary detent if it is engaged.

 

[teammontana]

Will do, Thank you

 

[laurencen]

sounds like when the motor is cranking the hydraulics are loading, mak sure you do not have auxillary engaged

 

[polishpete]

PRABBLY BAS BATTERY

 

[teammontana]

I removed the starter and it would not bench test. Opened it up and the inside was badly corroded. tensioners for brushes were seized up and fields were very dirty. Could have possibly found parts but just ordered a rebuilt one. supposed to be here tomorrow. Hopefully that will get it turning over to see what the next issue from sitting will be. Thanks

 

[polishpete]

no good need new

 

[teammontana]

I cranked the engine over several rotations with the crank bolt to insure the engine would crank. Removed the plugs and sprayed a little oil in the cylinders while hand turning over in case there was a little rust or rings stuck. Put in new starter. The negative cable was not hooked up or anywhere close to the battery, but while tightening down the positive to the starter the wrench hit the frame and arched. How is that possible? there is only one battery And the ground was not hooked up. The battery is sitting in a little coolant that spilled but the battery can't ground through the bottom of the battery when wet?
after getting the starter installed, spark plugs still out to make it easier to turn over, I did some test starting and it turned over several times, maybe not as quickly as anticipated. I then put a plug in the plug cap to test the spark and now it won't turn over, just has the solenoid click. It also won't turn over by the crank bolt, either direction. Any ideas?

 

[polishpete]

PULLEY COU;D BE SEIZED

 

[polishpete]

TRY TO DO THE STARTER DIRECT

 

[teammontana]

Disconnected all the pulleys. Been using a remote start switch. Key start is the same result. Thanks

 

[laurencen]

the starter motor could be jammed and not disengaged, that could cause the lockup you have, in a car we just put it in gear and rocked it but bobcat is way harder

 

[teammontana]

You can hear the bendix engage but doesn't turn over. Tried to turn crank with crank bolt, which would work before, but no luck. I will Try to find a tool to turn the crank pulley. Trying to get the Bobcat out of my garage so I can start working on my 64 Chevelle 2 door wagon. Wrist surgery Friday probably means I am done until spring now.

 

[teammontana]

Well that mystery figured out. There are three thin flat washers between the starter and the removable casting that fits into the bell housing. With those missing, the starter hits a disc beyond the flywheel. This is a very heavy starter in a very small space. Why they wouldn't have a starter that FIT or made the casting slightly thicker is stupid. Lining up what is there to start the bolts is very hard, now add three extra loose washers. Next time I will cut the head off a 3/8" bolt to screw in the bell housing to get everything lined up so I can get the other two bolts started. Not sure how to get those washers in there. Maybe glue them to the starter and hope they stay in place.
Still haven't figured out why the starter positive connection sparked to the frame when the ground on the battery was disconnected. Been working on vehicles for 60 years and never had that happen. It doesn't do it now so will remain a mystery.

 

[Dave1234]

Good to know

 

[laurencen]

had 2 743s apart to rebuild motors never seen any washers used in this yet, are you sure the starter is correct? glad you figured it out but heck who would have figured washers to space starter would be required.

you could use ready threaded rod and make studs, screw them into the housing, put washers on and slide the starter over them, use a nut to tighten, just a idea

 

[brdgbldr]

Well that mystery figured out. There are three thin flat washers between the starter and the removable casting that fits into the bell housing. With those missing, the starter hits a disc beyond the flywheel. This is a very heavy starter in a very small space. Why they wouldn't have a starter that FIT or made the casting slightly thicker is stupid. Lining up what is there to start the bolts is very hard, now add three extra loose washers. Next time I will cut the head off a 3/8" bolt to screw in the bell housing to get everything lined up so I can get the other two bolts started. Not sure how to get those washers in there. Maybe glue them to the starter and hope they stay in place.
Still haven't figured out why the starter positive connection sparked to the frame when the ground on the battery was disconnected. Been working on vehicles for 60 years and never had that happen. It doesn't do it now so will remain a mystery.

I had two bobcat 742's, one Ford and the other Mitsubishi, and did not have any washers on the starters. Sounds like that is not the correct stater.
Some staters do come with shims so that they can be lined up better but I never needed use them.

 

[teammontana]

I thought the washers were from the alternator bracket but when I put everything back together, they were 7/16 instead of the 1/2" needed. There are clear circle stains on the old starter and the spacer between the starter and the bell housing. Measured everything out and the starters are identical. washers are standard size at @.09" thick. I am going to try clamping the washers to the spacer with Gorilla glue.
bad thing is I have wrist surgery tomorrow so won't be able to get back to the Bobcat for at least 2-3 weeks.
Thanks to everyone who provided some help on this. Larry

 

[polishpete]

GREASE WILL WORK TO