630 transmission question

[Retired Don]

I picked up a 630 quite some time back and finally have had time to give it some attention. Had ignition issues, fuel, carb issues but now it is running and working quite well. However, I had the transmission oil warning light start flickering when working it. All operation is fine yet. I suspected low transmission oil but when I pulled the plug, I got two surprises. First there was plenty of oil in there as it came running out right away and Secondly, the fluid that came out was cream colored. On examination, it really does not look like the typical cream mixture when you get oil and water stirred up (and for that matter the skid steer has sat idle for four days prior to this). Is perhaps that some brand of oil that is normal? What actually drives the warning light? Any troubleshooting guidance would be appreciated. One other thing, just where is the drain plug to completely drain the tranny? Thanks Retired Don

 

[ancomcabs]

Sounds like water has just leaked into the chain case raising the fluid level and turning it the color you see. The Trans warning light has nothing to do with the chain case, all that happens in the chain case is the two drive chains run thru an oil bath to keep them lubricated. The trans light is connected to two (I'm pretty sure) sensors that are on a block on top of the hydraulic pump located under the seat, one is for pressure and the other temp of the hydraulic oil. Have you checked the hydraulic fluid level? Another reason the chain case can be overfull is because the drive motor seals can be leaking into it raising the level and lowering the hydraulic fluid level, they both call for 10w30 motor oil so there is no worries about mixing the wrong fliuds
If you don't have a service manual send me an e-mail at ancomcabs at gmail dot com and I will send you a pdf copy

 

[SkidRoe]

Sounds like water has just leaked into the chain case raising the fluid level and turning it the color you see. The Trans warning light has nothing to do with the chain case, all that happens in the chain case is the two drive chains run thru an oil bath to keep them lubricated. The trans light is connected to two (I'm pretty sure) sensors that are on a block on top of the hydraulic pump located under the seat, one is for pressure and the other temp of the hydraulic oil. Have you checked the hydraulic fluid level? Another reason the chain case can be overfull is because the drive motor seals can be leaking into it raising the level and lowering the hydraulic fluid level, they both call for 10w30 motor oil so there is no worries about mixing the wrong fliuds
If you don't have a service manual send me an e-mail at ancomcabs at gmail dot com and I will send you a pdf copy

Chain case water contamination is not uncommon. I changed mine this past summer, and it sounds like yours has much the same consistency. Your flickering light is likely the charge pressure. Somebody can speak about this better than me, but I am guessing that the hidden bronze inline filter has something to do with it.

 

[Retired Don]

Chain case water contamination is not uncommon. I changed mine this past summer, and it sounds like yours has much the same consistency. Your flickering light is likely the charge pressure. Somebody can speak about this better than me, but I am guessing that the hidden bronze inline filter has something to do with it.

SkidRoe, Two additional questions come to mind. Just where is this "hidden bronze" filter? and when you say "charge pressure" is that the output pressure from the pump? The premise being that the pump might be starving for oil because of a filter problem? Thanks Don

 

[SkidRoe]

SkidRoe, Two additional questions come to mind. Just where is this "hidden bronze" filter? and when you say "charge pressure" is that the output pressure from the pump? The premise being that the pump might be starving for oil because of a filter problem? Thanks Don

I will take a shot, I have only seen this talked about in other posts.
Under your seat / cab, there is a manifold block that has 3 hoses running to it. Behind the fitting of the middle hose, there is a sintered bronze filter. It will either need to be washed out or replaced. Once again, a guess.
As far as charge pressure goes, the hydro system relies on getting a source of charge oil from the loader / aux circuit to replenish oil lost through the case drains from the drive motors.
There is a valve in the main filter manifold that restricts the return flow from the main control to build a constant pressure of ~ 150 - 200 psi (depending on your machine). This oil is fed to the main pumps through the 3-hose manifold that I spoke of above. Hope this helps.

 

[Langloim]

I will take a shot, I have only seen this talked about in other posts.
Under your seat / cab, there is a manifold block that has 3 hoses running to it. Behind the fitting of the middle hose, there is a sintered bronze filter. It will either need to be washed out or replaced. Once again, a guess.
As far as charge pressure goes, the hydro system relies on getting a source of charge oil from the loader / aux circuit to replenish oil lost through the case drains from the drive motors.
There is a valve in the main filter manifold that restricts the return flow from the main control to build a constant pressure of ~ 150 - 200 psi (depending on your machine). This oil is fed to the main pumps through the 3-hose manifold that I spoke of above. Hope this helps.

Water in the oil as you know sits on top of the oil in a white thin creamy film. What you're describing is common in hydraulics when accidentally you mix naturally hydraulic with synthetic oil it mixes into a white creamy paste you may need to flush the system.

 

[Retired Don]

Water in the oil as you know sits on top of the oil in a white thin creamy film. What you're describing is common in hydraulics when accidentally you mix naturally hydraulic with synthetic oil it mixes into a white creamy paste you may need to flush the system.

Well, I ran a little experiment and I do believe that I am dealing with water in the lubrication chamber where the chains run. I will say that it is the best emulsion / mixture of oil and water I have ever seen though. What I did was to drain off a good quart of it and let it stand over night. I could see no separation of the cream indicating water so I thought the synthetic / natural oil was on target. But then I took a couple tuna cans full and boiled them over some wood coals I had going. After reducing volume by about 1/2, I ended up with stuff that looks pretty much like oil- dirty oil, but oil. So, now I do want to drain this all out and clean / flush it but I have to say, I have not yet found, either in the manual or by looking any drain plug, only the check / fill plug. Any hints as to where that is? As for my flashing Trans light, I verified that I have adequate oil in the hydraulic reservoir and it is good looking oil. Therefore I'm suspecting that I am looking at the bronze filter issue suggested earlier - on the schedule for tomorrow. Thanks for the help Don

 

[SkidRoe]

Well, I ran a little experiment and I do believe that I am dealing with water in the lubrication chamber where the chains run. I will say that it is the best emulsion / mixture of oil and water I have ever seen though. What I did was to drain off a good quart of it and let it stand over night. I could see no separation of the cream indicating water so I thought the synthetic / natural oil was on target. But then I took a couple tuna cans full and boiled them over some wood coals I had going. After reducing volume by about 1/2, I ended up with stuff that looks pretty much like oil- dirty oil, but oil. So, now I do want to drain this all out and clean / flush it but I have to say, I have not yet found, either in the manual or by looking any drain plug, only the check / fill plug. Any hints as to where that is? As for my flashing Trans light, I verified that I have adequate oil in the hydraulic reservoir and it is good looking oil. Therefore I'm suspecting that I am looking at the bronze filter issue suggested earlier - on the schedule for tomorrow. Thanks for the help Don

Don, there is no drain plug for the chain case, but you have some options. You could drill a hole and add a plug. You could remove one of the top plates and suck it out (this is the BC approved method). What I did was buy one of those drill-driven pumps, fashioned a suction tube to reach the bottom of the case, and pumped the oil out through the front level/fill plug. I jacked up th back of the machine to more completely draw out all of the oil. I used the same pump to refill the case from a 5 gallon pail, faster and less messy than trying to pour it in. HTH.

 

[ancomcabs]

Well, I ran a little experiment and I do believe that I am dealing with water in the lubrication chamber where the chains run. I will say that it is the best emulsion / mixture of oil and water I have ever seen though. What I did was to drain off a good quart of it and let it stand over night. I could see no separation of the cream indicating water so I thought the synthetic / natural oil was on target. But then I took a couple tuna cans full and boiled them over some wood coals I had going. After reducing volume by about 1/2, I ended up with stuff that looks pretty much like oil- dirty oil, but oil. So, now I do want to drain this all out and clean / flush it but I have to say, I have not yet found, either in the manual or by looking any drain plug, only the check / fill plug. Any hints as to where that is? As for my flashing Trans light, I verified that I have adequate oil in the hydraulic reservoir and it is good looking oil. Therefore I'm suspecting that I am looking at the bronze filter issue suggested earlier - on the schedule for tomorrow. Thanks for the help Don

The check plug is also the drain. What you can do is jack up the rear and open the plug to drain as much out that way then with a tube in the hole pump the rest out. Or you can also open the top access cover to pump out and clean the chain case, it invoves disconnecting the parking brake to remove the cover

 

[jerry]

The check plug is also the drain. What you can do is jack up the rear and open the plug to drain as much out that way then with a tube in the hole pump the rest out. Or you can also open the top access cover to pump out and clean the chain case, it invoves disconnecting the parking brake to remove the cover

That thick creamy mixture is certainly water/oil. The older John Deere tractors were great for this and you could leave it sit for weeks and it would not seperate. Never thought of using heat to distill it. With that in there you should take the top cover off and wash it out good with diesel , this oil also is for the wheel bearings so it should be clean. There was a post on here once about installing a drain plug in the bottom of the case but you seldom have to drain it.

 

[Tazza]

That thick creamy mixture is certainly water/oil. The older John Deere tractors were great for this and you could leave it sit for weeks and it would not seperate. Never thought of using heat to distill it. With that in there you should take the top cover off and wash it out good with diesel , this oil also is for the wheel bearings so it should be clean. There was a post on here once about installing a drain plug in the bottom of the case but you seldom have to drain it.

SkidRoe got it, the hidden filter is the main source of lack of power and the trans light coming on. It oculd also be a bad sender, they do tend to leak and fail over time.

 

[Retired Don]

SkidRoe got it, the hidden filter is the main source of lack of power and the trans light coming on. It oculd also be a bad sender, they do tend to leak and fail over time.

Thanks for the help and guidance guys. Looks like I have some entertainment ahead for a couple days. Hopefully the weather won't go too cold as I am working in an unheated area for now. Cheers Don

 

[Retired Don]

Thanks for the help and guidance guys. Looks like I have some entertainment ahead for a couple days. Hopefully the weather won't go too cold as I am working in an unheated area for now. Cheers Don

Well, I got to the bronze filter today and with some effort got it out. There was a fair amount of dirt around the base so I had to "work it out". (dirt had a fair amount of metal particals in it too as I checked it with a magnet.) I have it soaking in solvent now. I have a question though. I'm sure that as I pulled that filter out, not all the dirt came along with the filter. Is there a good way to clean the hole or must I remove the whole manifold and clean it before re installing the filter? thanks Don

 

[jerry]

Well, I got to the bronze filter today and with some effort got it out. There was a fair amount of dirt around the base so I had to "work it out". (dirt had a fair amount of metal particals in it too as I checked it with a magnet.) I have it soaking in solvent now. I have a question though. I'm sure that as I pulled that filter out, not all the dirt came along with the filter. Is there a good way to clean the hole or must I remove the whole manifold and clean it before re installing the filter? thanks Don

I know the book recomends taking the port block off and cleaning it out., it up to you whether you want to or not. If I remember right there is a fitting or plug right on top and when you take that out you will see a slotted thing in the bottom of the hole which holds the block on. you can make a tool to remove it by welding keystock on the end of a piece of pipe or as i did weld up a socket you dont need to often. all this is from memory though.

 

[SkidRoe]

Well, I got to the bronze filter today and with some effort got it out. There was a fair amount of dirt around the base so I had to "work it out". (dirt had a fair amount of metal particals in it too as I checked it with a magnet.) I have it soaking in solvent now. I have a question though. I'm sure that as I pulled that filter out, not all the dirt came along with the filter. Is there a good way to clean the hole or must I remove the whole manifold and clean it before re installing the filter? thanks Don

Things that are difficult to remove I typically wash in place with a can of brake cleaner. You may want to remove the other to hoses before doing this to prevent washing the crap down stream. A dental pick, an old tooth brush, and a scotchbrite pad may also be helpful.

 

[Tazza]

Things that are difficult to remove I typically wash in place with a can of brake cleaner. You may want to remove the other to hoses before doing this to prevent washing the crap down stream. A dental pick, an old tooth brush, and a scotchbrite pad may also be helpful.

Sadly there is no easy way to clean it out. As stated, you remove the large nut, but then you will need to make a tool to remove the slotted nut/bolt holding it to the hydraulic pump.
The only other way i can think of is to remove the big nut, install a plug of some sort into the hole. Remove the other lines to the control block and use diesel or some other solvent and compressed air to blow everything out.

 

[Retired Don]

Sadly there is no easy way to clean it out. As stated, you remove the large nut, but then you will need to make a tool to remove the slotted nut/bolt holding it to the hydraulic pump.
The only other way i can think of is to remove the big nut, install a plug of some sort into the hole. Remove the other lines to the control block and use diesel or some other solvent and compressed air to blow everything out.

I am in the process of removing the port block so that I can clean it per the manual. Had to order a 2 1/8th 3/4" drive socket to remove the big cap on the port block and then I can size the tool I have to make tomorrow. Been trying to minimize any debri in the area and using caps and plugs, hopefully I can succeed in that aspect. As long as I'm messing with things I was thinking about draining and flushing the hydraulic oil reservoir. Is there an easy way to do that?

 

[Tazza]

I am in the process of removing the port block so that I can clean it per the manual. Had to order a 2 1/8th 3/4" drive socket to remove the big cap on the port block and then I can size the tool I have to make tomorrow. Been trying to minimize any debri in the area and using caps and plugs, hopefully I can succeed in that aspect. As long as I'm messing with things I was thinking about draining and flushing the hydraulic oil reservoir. Is there an easy way to do that?

The easy way is to run the machine at idle and pump it out of the aux hydraulics. Less mess, but you can remove the hose to the oil tank and drain it out, but it will be messy.