Bobcat 610 variable speed clutch seave removal

[Beekeeper]

Just picked up a old 610 with a mast and hydraulic rear lift wheel. I need to remove the engine for rebuilding and removal of the vs seave is required. How do you remove this item so I may remove the engine.

 

[6brnorma]

Beekeeper…….welcome to the site. I am going to recommend you go to E-bay and get a 'service' manual and a 'parts' manual if you don't already have one. The service manual will walk you through most of this. If you are going to use this for a "beekeeping" forklift you will need them. I'm in the same business and have seven of these machines running and another five in various stages of disrepair. There is plenty of expertise on this site for anything you need. Is your 5th wheel factory or home made?

 

[Beekeeper]

Beekeeper…….welcome to the site. I am going to recommend you go to E-bay and get a 'service' manual and a 'parts' manual if you don't already have one. The service manual will walk you through most of this. If you are going to use this for a "beekeeping" forklift you will need them. I'm in the same business and have seven of these machines running and another five in various stages of disrepair. There is plenty of expertise on this site for anything you need. Is your 5th wheel factory or home made?

It is a factory fifth wheel and is in excellent condition. I just cannot justify paying big bucks for a machine that I use so little. Running about 200 hives, just a sideliner. Planning to go to 300 and that is the limit, just a one man show.

 

[6brnorma]

It is a factory fifth wheel and is in excellent condition. I just cannot justify paying big bucks for a machine that I use so little. Running about 200 hives, just a sideliner. Planning to go to 300 and that is the limit, just a one man show.

Your preaching to the choir Beek. We run about 8k, move bugs every night and use all 610s……set up correctly, you can load just as fast as a Swinger and not spend 45k for a machine. The only draw back is you can not match a Swingers' speed in a 100 yard dash. So……let's get started….do you have a manual? You will be inside the machine, so let's gear this thing up a notch for some additional speed. I'll tell you how to do it when you have your manual.

 

[Beekeeper]

Your preaching to the choir Beek. We run about 8k, move bugs every night and use all 610s……set up correctly, you can load just as fast as a Swinger and not spend 45k for a machine. The only draw back is you can not match a Swingers' speed in a 100 yard dash. So……let's get started….do you have a manual? You will be inside the machine, so let's gear this thing up a notch for some additional speed. I'll tell you how to do it when you have your manual.

I am ordering manuals today, trying to get this beast done by next October. I use two way pallets, just a four way cut down to two. Do not do any pollination, only do honey and with all the neonics its being sprayed in Florida it is almost impossible to survive. At this point I am trying to get as far away from citrus as I can and you certainly understand why. I don't even drink the juice anymore, neonic levels are way too high. Do you have top cages on your 610's or run open? Do you still use the VH4D? Glad we hooked up, hope you did well in the almonds. Beek

 

[6brnorma]

I am ordering manuals today, trying to get this beast done by next October. I use two way pallets, just a four way cut down to two. Do not do any pollination, only do honey and with all the neonics its being sprayed in Florida it is almost impossible to survive. At this point I am trying to get as far away from citrus as I can and you certainly understand why. I don't even drink the juice anymore, neonic levels are way too high. Do you have top cages on your 610's or run open? Do you still use the VH4D? Glad we hooked up, hope you did well in the almonds. Beek

We need to keep this on 'skid steers' and not industry……with that said, I'd go to 4 ways ASAP. ROPs are important, I recommend them and I'd imagine most on here would (especially in a "forklift" configuration). The VH4D is a great engine when done correctly……..don't cut corners on the rebuild, service it regularly and with the number of hours you are going to put on it annually it will last for many years.

 

[Beekeeper]

We need to keep this on 'skid steers' and not industry……with that said, I'd go to 4 ways ASAP. ROPs are important, I recommend them and I'd imagine most on here would (especially in a "forklift" configuration). The VH4D is a great engine when done correctly……..don't cut corners on the rebuild, service it regularly and with the number of hours you are going to put on it annually it will last for many years.

I was able to get the seave off, no big deal. Now I am in the process of removing the engine and I have a problem. I was able to remove three of the four engine mount bolts, but the forward bolt on the right side is deformed from rust and impossible to remove. I was thinking of cutting the top of the bolt off and trying to wedge the engine up enough to somehow cut that bolt on the bottom side of the engine mount hole. Looks like I can probably move it about 1/2 inch up before the engine hits the frame on the flywheel side. Any suggestions? Beekeeper.

 

[mark18mwm]

I was able to get the seave off, no big deal. Now I am in the process of removing the engine and I have a problem. I was able to remove three of the four engine mount bolts, but the forward bolt on the right side is deformed from rust and impossible to remove. I was thinking of cutting the top of the bolt off and trying to wedge the engine up enough to somehow cut that bolt on the bottom side of the engine mount hole. Looks like I can probably move it about 1/2 inch up before the engine hits the frame on the flywheel side. Any suggestions? Beekeeper.

I can't really help you get that bolt off but, if you want to make life easier putting them back in or if you need to remove it again here's a tip. When the engine is out, take the bolts out and weld a piece of steel (like a small bar or shaft etc.) to the head of the bolt so it wont turn when you put it back in. I have a 1/4" round bar about 2" long on the head of each bolt. what it does is stop the bolt from turning without putting a wrench on it. Whoever had mine before me did that, it makes life a lot easier not having to get a wrench on them by when working by your self. As for the bad bolt you have, I think your idea to wedge it is a good one but if you cant remove it without cutting it you might try brute force by purposely over-tightening it until it breaks. But that would be a last resort as it might just round off the head and make it worse.

 

[Beekeeper]

I can't really help you get that bolt off but, if you want to make life easier putting them back in or if you need to remove it again here's a tip. When the engine is out, take the bolts out and weld a piece of steel (like a small bar or shaft etc.) to the head of the bolt so it wont turn when you put it back in. I have a 1/4" round bar about 2" long on the head of each bolt. what it does is stop the bolt from turning without putting a wrench on it. Whoever had mine before me did that, it makes life a lot easier not having to get a wrench on them by when working by your self. As for the bad bolt you have, I think your idea to wedge it is a good one but if you cant remove it without cutting it you might try brute force by purposely over-tightening it until it breaks. But that would be a last resort as it might just round off the head and make it worse.

I cannt get a wrench on the bolt because it is so badly rusted and deformed. Getting to the bolt is a task that requires removing most of the other components in the compartment. Beek

 

[6brnorma]

I cannt get a wrench on the bolt because it is so badly rusted and deformed. Getting to the bolt is a task that requires removing most of the other components in the compartment. Beek

Beek…….if I understand you………you are talking about the bolt closest to the seat, under the starter. If that is the case, it does not have a nut on it……it is a piece of flat bar with a threaded hole. I would try first to spray some sort of rust solvent/lube and keep working it until you can work it out or break it off……hopefully it breaks flush with the bar. I use 1/2 inch drive, long extensions with a flex 3/4 impact socket to get to that bolt…..you may need to remove the starter for a better angle. If your bolt is stripped……tilt the engine so you can force the tip of a slot screwdriver up close to the bolt, let the weight of the engine settle on the screwdriver giving upward pressure to the bolt and hopefully you can catch threads again.

 

[mark18mwm]

I cannt get a wrench on the bolt because it is so badly rusted and deformed. Getting to the bolt is a task that requires removing most of the other components in the compartment. Beek

i'm guessing that's the bolt by the starter? Can you pull the starter off to get on it? That might help, not sure. Good luck, sounds miserable, those bolts are tough when they are in good shape.

 

[6brnorma]

i'm guessing that's the bolt by the starter? Can you pull the starter off to get on it? That might help, not sure. Good luck, sounds miserable, those bolts are tough when they are in good shape.

That is a very difficult bolt to work with. Typically, heat would be the next step but because of the location, inevitable accumulation of oil and hydro fluid…….I would not even consider it on that particular bolt. I honestly don't know if there is enough room to lift the engine over the remainder of the bolt if you were to cut the head off. Personally, I would make every effort to remove it intact before cutting it. That bolt has given me problems on several occasions…….only once did I break it. Don't forget the "anti-seize" when you drop the new engine in ;-)

 

[Beekeeper]

That is a very difficult bolt to work with. Typically, heat would be the next step but because of the location, inevitable accumulation of oil and hydro fluid…….I would not even consider it on that particular bolt. I honestly don't know if there is enough room to lift the engine over the remainder of the bolt if you were to cut the head off. Personally, I would make every effort to remove it intact before cutting it. That bolt has given me problems on several occasions…….only once did I break it. Don't forget the "anti-seize" when you drop the new engine in ;-)

I have removed the starter, the alternator and the engine shroud to gain better access. Next move is to remove the hydraulic hoses and filter canister so that I can get better access to the bolt. I don't think that I have any choice but to cut the bolt. This is a really poor bolt down arrangement. What I first thought was going to be just a engine rebuild is turning into a complete restoration. Do you guys know if there is a rebuild kit for the variable speed clutch?

 

[mark18mwm]

I cannt get a wrench on the bolt because it is so badly rusted and deformed. Getting to the bolt is a task that requires removing most of the other components in the compartment. Beek

How about using a 1/4" air angle die grinder with a cut off wheel? might be small enough to get in there to cut it. I would think a angle grinder would fit and be easier to control in there than a straight die grinder. there will be sparks but not near as many or as hot as torching it off but still be ready for fire, like 6brnorma says, lots of built up oils, leaves etc down there. If you dont have a air die grinder with enough patience maybe even a dremel tool might work.

 

[6brnorma]

How about using a 1/4" air angle die grinder with a cut off wheel? might be small enough to get in there to cut it. I would think a angle grinder would fit and be easier to control in there than a straight die grinder. there will be sparks but not near as many or as hot as torching it off but still be ready for fire, like 6brnorma says, lots of built up oils, leaves etc down there. If you dont have a air die grinder with enough patience maybe even a dremel tool might work.

You are working on a 1970ish M-610 Bobcat….it is never "just a engine rebuild". You and I are in a business that demands a reliable machine….even though vintage….there is nothing more frustrating then having a loaded truck with the sun coming up and a broke down forklift. You haven't done any more work then would have been required anyway and there are more things you will want to be assured are mechanically sound before you replace the engine so you will probably be pulling more yet. If the bolt is too deformed for a socket, can you get a large pair of vise grips on it? When you asked about the 'variable speed clutch'….I assume you mean the variable speed sheave. I don't believe they sell a "kit" but all of the internal parts are available through the dealer. I recommend you have a few of these parts on hand….grower calls and says he is going to spray….you don't have three days to wait for parts. The sheave is a common failure point.

 

[6brnorma]

You are working on a 1970ish M-610 Bobcat….it is never "just a engine rebuild". You and I are in a business that demands a reliable machine….even though vintage….there is nothing more frustrating then having a loaded truck with the sun coming up and a broke down forklift. You haven't done any more work then would have been required anyway and there are more things you will want to be assured are mechanically sound before you replace the engine so you will probably be pulling more yet. If the bolt is too deformed for a socket, can you get a large pair of vise grips on it? When you asked about the 'variable speed clutch'….I assume you mean the variable speed sheave. I don't believe they sell a "kit" but all of the internal parts are available through the dealer. I recommend you have a few of these parts on hand….grower calls and says he is going to spray….you don't have three days to wait for parts. The sheave is a common failure point.

Beek…..here are a list of parts and prices you should consider having extra of for the sheave assembly……1) Swivel P/N 6516304…$125.00 2) Snap Rings P/N 1310052 3) Bearing P/N 6516312….$35.00 (couple) 4) Shim P/N 896264…$4.00 5) Snap Ring P/N 1319170 6) Seal P/N 6516301…$24.00 7) Guide P/N 888670… $3.00 8] Snap Ring P/N 6515571….$1.00 and several of each of the O-rings P/Ns 25K-20005, 58K-216, 58K-325. If you will look at your exploded view of the sheave assembly……the majority of your failures will occur at the #2 snap ring due to wear of the groove in the #16 Shaft. When it fails it nearly always takes the #26 swivel with it. I always have several of the shafts in stock but they are pricey……north of $200.00