Bobcat 610 Sheave Re-Install

[BobM610]

Ive been having problems with losing my steering on warm days or after operating the machine for a short period of time. I knew there was a fluid leak somewhere that had gotten the belt wet since before I acquired the machine and figured it was coming from the roto swivel cylinder so I had pulled the two sheave halves off and took the belt off and scrubbed it with hot water and detergent. I cleaned the two sheave halves and thought I would reassemble and try the Bobcat out to see if that fixed it, at least for now and not use the hi/lo, before I take the side covers off and check the clutch disc's. My question is, I was ready to put the two sheave halves on and did see the alignment arrow on the outer half but I do not see an alignment mark for the inside half.?? Is it suppose to be on the belt side or the backside? Thanks for any help with this.

 

[BobM610]

bump.

 

[6brnorma]

bump.

There were two styles that I'm aware of.....one is a "line" cut on the very rim of the sheave and the other was a "v" shaped cut on the back-outside portion of the rim. Both halves will have the same mark, I have never seen the two mixed.....the halves are matched & balanced. An unbalanced sheave can damage the engine and drive belt.

 

[jerry]

There were two styles that I'm aware of.....one is a "line" cut on the very rim of the sheave and the other was a "v" shaped cut on the back-outside portion of the rim. Both halves will have the same mark, I have never seen the two mixed.....the halves are matched & balanced. An unbalanced sheave can damage the engine and drive belt.

The fluid leak would have no effect on the steering. The clutches have roller thrust bearings in them and if one is bad it will act like that, all though you simply could have worn clutch plates also. They aren't too hard to work on , if the bearings look good and the plates do also it may just need adjusting tighter.

 

[BobM610]

The fluid leak would have no effect on the steering. The clutches have roller thrust bearings in them and if one is bad it will act like that, all though you simply could have worn clutch plates also. They aren't too hard to work on , if the bearings look good and the plates do also it may just need adjusting tighter.

Thank you both very much for the info. I didnt think the leak itself would be causing a problem with the steering but that the belt being wet with fluid may be slipping and causing this problem. How wide should a good working belt measure (outside, side to side across the top)? Mine might be looking as though its getting wore narrow.

 

[BobM610]

Thank you both very much for the info. I didnt think the leak itself would be causing a problem with the steering but that the belt being wet with fluid may be slipping and causing this problem. How wide should a good working belt measure (outside, side to side across the top)? Mine might be looking as though its getting wore narrow.

The outer half does have this cast in, "Caution Line Up With Mark On Other Half", and it has an arrow cast in. I see no cut mark or V mark on the edge or toward the edge of the inner half. There is a cut into the top of this half at the end of the splined shaft next to where the swivel fitting sticks out for the hydraulic line to attach. But it actually looks like it was made by an 1/8" cutoff wheel, its about 1/16" deep into the top edge of the spline. On the backside there is cast in a B with a circle around it, a casting number and a cast in "tab" that looks like a date code, I see no other markings on the front or back. As to my belt question mine measures 2-3/4" wide.

 

[BobM610]

The outer half does have this cast in, "Caution Line Up With Mark On Other Half", and it has an arrow cast in. I see no cut mark or V mark on the edge or toward the edge of the inner half. There is a cut into the top of this half at the end of the splined shaft next to where the swivel fitting sticks out for the hydraulic line to attach. But it actually looks like it was made by an 1/8" cutoff wheel, its about 1/16" deep into the top edge of the spline. On the backside there is cast in a B with a circle around it, a casting number and a cast in "tab" that looks like a date code, I see no other markings on the front or back. As to my belt question mine measures 2-3/4" wide.

bump

 

[jerry]

bump

Call or stop in at your local dealer, most still carried that belt in stock a couple years ago and at least here they would walk over and measure it for you. Do you have the service book? If not ask them about the sheave assembly.

 

[BobM610]

Call or stop in at your local dealer, most still carried that belt in stock a couple years ago and at least here they would walk over and measure it for you. Do you have the service book? If not ask them about the sheave assembly.

Just spoke to our nearest Bobcat dealer and they referred to their pdf manual which amounts to the same as the manual that I got with the machine which when it comes to reassembling the two sheave halves in reference to balance marks is vague. We have a local machine shop and Im wondering if they could chuck and spin both halves to find the correct balance position. On a side note I asked the dealer about a belt, they have them in stock for $112 and he gave me the part number right off the belt and its the same # that is on mine, difference is the belt they have is only 1-7/8" wide, on the outside, mine is 2-3/4", this is obviously going to change where the belt rides in both front and rear sheaves. Right now the belt rides about 3/16" short from the outside of the front sheave (jack shaft sheave), how will the narrower belt, riding deeper in the sheaves, affect my speed and "low speed side" torque?

 

[jerry]

Just spoke to our nearest Bobcat dealer and they referred to their pdf manual which amounts to the same as the manual that I got with the machine which when it comes to reassembling the two sheave halves in reference to balance marks is vague. We have a local machine shop and Im wondering if they could chuck and spin both halves to find the correct balance position. On a side note I asked the dealer about a belt, they have them in stock for $112 and he gave me the part number right off the belt and its the same # that is on mine, difference is the belt they have is only 1-7/8" wide, on the outside, mine is 2-3/4", this is obviously going to change where the belt rides in both front and rear sheaves. Right now the belt rides about 3/16" short from the outside of the front sheave (jack shaft sheave), how will the narrower belt, riding deeper in the sheaves, affect my speed and "low speed side" torque?

Check with old machinist on this forum to see if he has service manual for you. Is there any sign of balancing having been done? such as holes partially drilled in or weight added? If there is on both halves then I would think the balance spots should be lined up. Wonder where that 2 3/4 belt came from. It did not sound right but it has been a long time since I worked on one. Lot of members here with that machine so there should be help coming.

 

[BobM610]

Check with old machinist on this forum to see if he has service manual for you. Is there any sign of balancing having been done? such as holes partially drilled in or weight added? If there is on both halves then I would think the balance spots should be lined up. Wonder where that 2 3/4 belt came from. It did not sound right but it has been a long time since I worked on one. Lot of members here with that machine so there should be help coming.

The outer half that has the arrow and caution wording on it does have some partially drilled balance marks its the inner half that doesnt seem to show anything, now that Im thinking of it could this mean that it doesnt matter where I assemble the two halves? could it be that the inner half is balanced the way it is and the outer half was partially drilled to get it balanced and together either way their fine? When he told me how wide a new belt was it threw me to, odd thing is they both share the same part number.

 

[6brnorma]

The outer half that has the arrow and caution wording on it does have some partially drilled balance marks its the inner half that doesnt seem to show anything, now that Im thinking of it could this mean that it doesnt matter where I assemble the two halves? could it be that the inner half is balanced the way it is and the outer half was partially drilled to get it balanced and together either way their fine? When he told me how wide a new belt was it threw me to, odd thing is they both share the same part number.

The new belts are 2 7/8.....my guess is the parts man said 1 7/8 when he meant 2 7/8.....double check. Again, I'm just guessing here but, the balance marks are very small and if you don't know where or what you're looking for it is easy to miss and I'm thinking that possibly you are just missing the mark (no pun intended). I am away from my shop at the moment but if you will look directly up from the arrow on the sheave you will find the first mark. It is barely more than a 'v' shaped "nick" on the very circumference of the sheave.....sometimes you need to use your fingernail to find it. Once you find it you will find the exact same style mark (provided no one has mismatched sheave halves at some point) on the other sheave. When reassembling you can only locate the mark on the mounted half with a fingernail and the two halves MUST be aligned. Hope this helps.

 

[6brnorma]

The new belts are 2 7/8.....my guess is the parts man said 1 7/8 when he meant 2 7/8.....double check. Again, I'm just guessing here but, the balance marks are very small and if you don't know where or what you're looking for it is easy to miss and I'm thinking that possibly you are just missing the mark (no pun intended). I am away from my shop at the moment but if you will look directly up from the arrow on the sheave you will find the first mark. It is barely more than a 'v' shaped "nick" on the very circumference of the sheave.....sometimes you need to use your fingernail to find it. Once you find it you will find the exact same style mark (provided no one has mismatched sheave halves at some point) on the other sheave. When reassembling you can only locate the mark on the mounted half with a fingernail and the two halves MUST be aligned. Hope this helps.

BobcatM610......I'm curious if you were able to find the balance marks or if your sheaves don't have them. I know there were a couple of styles I never work with......one on a straight shaft (that I've never seen) and one with a "stabilized" end....two of which I converted to the standard sheaves. Thanks

 

[BobM610]

BobcatM610......I'm curious if you were able to find the balance marks or if your sheaves don't have them. I know there were a couple of styles I never work with......one on a straight shaft (that I've never seen) and one with a "stabilized" end....two of which I converted to the standard sheaves. Thanks

This one is a straight shaft, and it doesnt have the outer stabilizer bracket, theres a recessed set screw in the inner half of the sheave that "sets" into the engine shaft. I found a couple of small "nicks" on the backside outer edge. One is a very small nick that could be a balance mark but also looks like a nick that could have occurred if someone was working on the machine and banged it or had it apart and set the sheave down heavy on the floor. The other mark is roughly opposite of this first mentioned mark, it actually appears to be a very close group of about 3 nicks that look like they could have been made by a 1/16" cut off wheel, they are just small nicks not deep cuts. I hate to trust either marks and they not be right, I may call my local machine shop today and see if they can help. I really need to get this machine going again asap.

 

[6brnorma]

This one is a straight shaft, and it doesnt have the outer stabilizer bracket, theres a recessed set screw in the inner half of the sheave that "sets" into the engine shaft. I found a couple of small "nicks" on the backside outer edge. One is a very small nick that could be a balance mark but also looks like a nick that could have occurred if someone was working on the machine and banged it or had it apart and set the sheave down heavy on the floor. The other mark is roughly opposite of this first mentioned mark, it actually appears to be a very close group of about 3 nicks that look like they could have been made by a 1/16" cut off wheel, they are just small nicks not deep cuts. I hate to trust either marks and they not be right, I may call my local machine shop today and see if they can help. I really need to get this machine going again asap.

OK.....now we're talking a different animal. So, am I correct that you don't have a VH4D Wisconsin engine in this machine? I'm fuzzy on the Model # if it is diesel.....the history shows a 600-D and then a M-611 and I believe (but am not sure) that they had straight shafts and may not have balance marks......I've never worked with one. I believe they had both Petter and Deutz in those days but not sure what went into which and don't know if they 'tagged' anything as a M-610D or not. Maybe someone can fill us both in. I am all but certain that the belt was the same on all of them however.

 

[BobM610]

OK.....now we're talking a different animal. So, am I correct that you don't have a VH4D Wisconsin engine in this machine? I'm fuzzy on the Model # if it is diesel.....the history shows a 600-D and then a M-611 and I believe (but am not sure) that they had straight shafts and may not have balance marks......I've never worked with one. I believe they had both Petter and Deutz in those days but not sure what went into which and don't know if they 'tagged' anything as a M-610D or not. Maybe someone can fill us both in. I am all but certain that the belt was the same on all of them however.

The machine shop was no help. Im beginning to pull out whats left of my hair. It does have the Wisconsin V4, although not the original, the previous owner did say that it did originally have a V4, that was blown. When you say "straight shaft" you are referring to the engine output shaft correct? I had heard of a tapered shaft version. Yes mine has a short straight output shaft. I wish I could post photos. Mine is an M-610. As far as I know the "D" was the notation for the diesel versions.

 

[6brnorma]

The machine shop was no help. Im beginning to pull out whats left of my hair. It does have the Wisconsin V4, although not the original, the previous owner did say that it did originally have a V4, that was blown. When you say "straight shaft" you are referring to the engine output shaft correct? I had heard of a tapered shaft version. Yes mine has a short straight output shaft. I wish I could post photos. Mine is an M-610. As far as I know the "D" was the notation for the diesel versions.

The ID plates can be unreliable...... the engine ID plates are extremely unreliable as the 'sheet metal' fits several engines and it's not uncommon to have different 'sheet metal' on the wrong engine. That said, I was under the impression that the M-610 (gas version) only came with the Wisconsin VH4D with a short tapered shaft and not the V4 with a straight shaft. Maybe someone can jump in here. You may be asking for help on the wrong model......does the ID plate say M-610? I know a man who can answer all these questions but he ONLY responds to a FAX and it can take a couple of weeks to get that response.

 

[BobM610]

The ID plates can be unreliable...... the engine ID plates are extremely unreliable as the 'sheet metal' fits several engines and it's not uncommon to have different 'sheet metal' on the wrong engine. That said, I was under the impression that the M-610 (gas version) only came with the Wisconsin VH4D with a short tapered shaft and not the V4 with a straight shaft. Maybe someone can jump in here. You may be asking for help on the wrong model......does the ID plate say M-610? I know a man who can answer all these questions but he ONLY responds to a FAX and it can take a couple of weeks to get that response.

My bad, I didnt mean to say it had a model V4 engine just that it is of a v 4 configuration Wisconsin. I am not sure what the exact model is of this particular Wisconsin, I havnt found any i.d. tags. The output shaft is straight and 1-1/2" in length. The machine has M-610 decals but the only tag on the machine itself is what I believe to be the serial number. Would the serial number contain info on original engine model or configuration?

 

[6brnorma]

My bad, I didnt mean to say it had a model V4 engine just that it is of a v 4 configuration Wisconsin. I am not sure what the exact model is of this particular Wisconsin, I havnt found any i.d. tags. The output shaft is straight and 1-1/2" in length. The machine has M-610 decals but the only tag on the machine itself is what I believe to be the serial number. Would the serial number contain info on original engine model or configuration?

The decals don't mean anything......they cost a few bucks at any Bobcat dealer or e-bay. The ID plate on a 610 is just below the seat, basically behind your left leg as you sit in the machine. If you can see a serial # you can call Bobcat customer service and they will tell you all the info on the machine. The same plate *should* have the model # also. You're either working with a machine that I have no experience with or someone has re-powered with a different engine than original. Not saying this is the case but someone "could" have simply replaced the stock Bobcat VH4D or VF4D (M-600) engine (short taper shaft) with a common V4 configuration engine (short straight shaft) and then used sheaves from a Petter or Deutz.....slap some 610 decals on it and voila'. Call Bobcat with the numbers you have and see what they say. You've got me interested now.