another 743 problem

[mkueffler]

I ran my bobcat one day, it worked just fine, i put it in the shop and left. a few days later I came back to use it and it wont start. when I turn the key to pre heat it makes a sound like a car trying to start with a low battery, like the starter just clicking. and when i turn the key to start it it makes the same sound. please help

 

[mkueffler]

I also trikle charged the battery all night. battery is fully charged.

 

[BobCat]

I also trikle charged the battery all night. battery is fully charged.

Did ya clean the terminals?

 

[Tazza]

Did ya clean the terminals?

Are you sure the battery is not dead? check it with a meter when you glow it, it should still have 12V. When they are sad, they will drop way down when glowing or starting, hense the clicking.

 

[mkueffler]

Are you sure the battery is not dead? check it with a meter when you glow it, it should still have 12V. When they are sad, they will drop way down when glowing or starting, hense the clicking.

terminals are clean, its a new battery, only three months old. I did a test on the battery with my batery tester and its good. lots of power there. when i turn the key to start it sounds like a minne jack hammer, if that makes sense to you. and it still clicks when i try to preheat the glow plugs. why in the world would it make a clicking noise when preheating? it has never done that before.

 

[Tazza]

terminals are clean, its a new battery, only three months old. I did a test on the battery with my batery tester and its good. lots of power there. when i turn the key to start it sounds like a minne jack hammer, if that makes sense to you. and it still clicks when i try to preheat the glow plugs. why in the world would it make a clicking noise when preheating? it has never done that before.

It still sounds like a battery, even though its 3 months old. Its the sound commonly made when the battery doesn't get enough power to the relay. The relay closes but when the extra load drops the voltage the coil releases, this stops the load which closes the relay then opens again, your description of a jack hammer is pretty close.
The battery cables could also be the issue. Where the wire goes into the lug, the copper can get a black coating known as black death, check both ends of the cable. Its insulating and over time it will stop power getting from the wire to the lug. It could be a bad ground at the glow relay, you can try running a jumper cable from the relay back to the battery to check it.
One other thing you can try, get a good set of jumper cables. Hook the negative to the side of the engine block. Then the positive hook onto the large nut on the starter. Use a screwdriver to jump from the positive clip to the lug on the starter to see if it spins. This will confirm a bad cable. If it starts, or spins, remove the negative cable, see if it still works, if so its a problem with your positive power cable.
Hopefully that gives you somewhere to start.

 

[mkueffler]

It still sounds like a battery, even though its 3 months old. Its the sound commonly made when the battery doesn't get enough power to the relay. The relay closes but when the extra load drops the voltage the coil releases, this stops the load which closes the relay then opens again, your description of a jack hammer is pretty close.
The battery cables could also be the issue. Where the wire goes into the lug, the copper can get a black coating known as black death, check both ends of the cable. Its insulating and over time it will stop power getting from the wire to the lug. It could be a bad ground at the glow relay, you can try running a jumper cable from the relay back to the battery to check it.
One other thing you can try, get a good set of jumper cables. Hook the negative to the side of the engine block. Then the positive hook onto the large nut on the starter. Use a screwdriver to jump from the positive clip to the lug on the starter to see if it spins. This will confirm a bad cable. If it starts, or spins, remove the negative cable, see if it still works, if so its a problem with your positive power cable.
Hopefully that gives you somewhere to start.

ok tomorrow i will through another battery in it and see what happens. I must admit i dont have much faith right now in it though, it is a new battery, battery cable, silonoid, and starter. and it started right up ran good the last time i used it! but i hope your right as it would be an easy and cheap fix.

 

[JPL]

ok tomorrow i will through another battery in it and see what happens. I must admit i dont have much faith right now in it though, it is a new battery, battery cable, silonoid, and starter. and it started right up ran good the last time i used it! but i hope your right as it would be an easy and cheap fix.

One thing that I found is if your glow plugs are gone then the machine becomes very hard to start. One time my battery was low so I used my high current charger and I shorted out the glow plugs. Even with a new battery it wouldn't start. As soon as replaced the glow plugs bang it started first try. Check your glow plugs to see if they are open. With bad glow plugs the timer will still click but the plug won't get hot.

 

[mkueffler]

One thing that I found is if your glow plugs are gone then the machine becomes very hard to start. One time my battery was low so I used my high current charger and I shorted out the glow plugs. Even with a new battery it wouldn't start. As soon as replaced the glow plugs bang it started first try. Check your glow plugs to see if they are open. With bad glow plugs the timer will still click but the plug won't get hot.

well no such luck for me! I installed another battery and i got the same problem. this time when I turned on the preheat I heard a hissing sound, i went back to the engine and could smell hot wires.

 

[Tazza]

well no such luck for me! I installed another battery and i got the same problem. this time when I turned on the preheat I heard a hissing sound, i went back to the engine and could smell hot wires.

Find where the heat is coming from, clean the connection. Hopefully its just a poit of high resistance.

 

[doger5]

Find where the heat is coming from, clean the connection. Hopefully its just a poit of high resistance.

Change the ground wire ,mine had internal corrosion had the same starting problem as you

 

[powerking]

i had to clean my battery ground to motor connection when i had that happen ,i added a star washer also. you will need to check the whole charging /start system .if your volt meter was showing it charging [12-14v]when last used the alternator should be fine.motor to chassis ground should be checked also.

 

[mkueffler]

i had to clean my battery ground to motor connection when i had that happen ,i added a star washer also. you will need to check the whole charging /start system .if your volt meter was showing it charging [12-14v]when last used the alternator should be fine.motor to chassis ground should be checked also.

is it possible to send a picture of where to jump the starter with a screw driver like you mentioned Tazza?

 

[Tazza]

is it possible to send a picture of where to jump the starter with a screw driver like you mentioned Tazza?

I don't have any pictures of it, but look at the starter solenoid on top of the starter. You will see two big bolts, one have your main positive wire attached to it, the other joins to the starter motor its self, there will be another small lug, about... 3mm diameter with a wire attached. You jump from +ve to this terminal, it should spark a little and start cranking.
Does that make a little more sense?

 

[mkueffler]

I don't have any pictures of it, but look at the starter solenoid on top of the starter. You will see two big bolts, one have your main positive wire attached to it, the other joins to the starter motor its self, there will be another small lug, about... 3mm diameter with a wire attached. You jump from +ve to this terminal, it should spark a little and start cranking.
Does that make a little more sense?

yep it makes perfect sense. I figured that earlier today while i was working on it. I jumped it and got the same results. so I took off the starter, just pulled it out of the bell housing and left all the wiring on and tried it. it did the same clicking. I then pulled it completly off the bobcat and tried it on the bench with my battery charger. at first it just clicked, then it engaged and spun, you can hear it increase with speed as it spins. on each try it would chatter or click a little and then engage and speed up to a full spin. this is a new rebuilt starter from a guy that does if for a living. perhaps a bearing went bad inside already? do you think its the starter? before I took the starter of I had a guy turn it over and pre heat while i watched in back and for both the noise came from the two silonoids mounted up above the starter to the left.

 

[Tazza]

yep it makes perfect sense. I figured that earlier today while i was working on it. I jumped it and got the same results. so I took off the starter, just pulled it out of the bell housing and left all the wiring on and tried it. it did the same clicking. I then pulled it completly off the bobcat and tried it on the bench with my battery charger. at first it just clicked, then it engaged and spun, you can hear it increase with speed as it spins. on each try it would chatter or click a little and then engage and speed up to a full spin. this is a new rebuilt starter from a guy that does if for a living. perhaps a bearing went bad inside already? do you think its the starter? before I took the starter of I had a guy turn it over and pre heat while i watched in back and for both the noise came from the two silonoids mounted up above the starter to the left.

It sounds like the contacts in the starter are dirty?

 

[mkueffler]

It sounds like the contacts in the starter are dirty?

turns out the starter was shot. this is the starter that was just rebuilt a few months ago. the guy said it would be cheaper to buy a replacement than to try and fix this one. 280 bucks later i have a new starter, now to put it on and see if the problem is solved.

 

[Tazza]

turns out the starter was shot. this is the starter that was just rebuilt a few months ago. the guy said it would be cheaper to buy a replacement than to try and fix this one. 280 bucks later i have a new starter, now to put it on and see if the problem is solved.

Its a bit harsh that it was 'reconditioned' and now its dead..... I hope this fixes all your problems!

 

[mkueffler]

Its a bit harsh that it was 'reconditioned' and now its dead..... I hope this fixes all your problems!

Well I put the new starter on and nothing, same problem. So that raises my eyebrow as to if my old starter was even bad or not and the company just screwed me! at anyrate I tried everything and came to the conclusion that there was no reason for it to not run. while sitting on a five gallon bucket behind the bobcat contimplating life and the interworkings of the elictrical system I decided to take the positive terminal apart. its one of those that has two 7/16 bolts holding the cable to the clamp. it was corroded so I cleaned it up with a wire brush, put it together and hooked it up, took my pliers for the heck of it and jumped it across the starter terminals, much to my disbelief the engine turned over. problem solved!!!!!!! thanks all for your help durring this trying time in my bobcat life lol. this is a great forum and your expertise is appriciated.