What attachment for very rocky volcanic ground?

[Markx]

Hello, new to skid steers... We are a low budget shooting club in the Azores Islands thinking of buying a skid steer to build our range with and then selling it on. We need to make berms with the rocky material on site, which will then be covered in volcanic ash and slag. My questions is: Is a skid steer usable for digging into very rocky ground? If so, what tool would you recommend?

 

[SkidRoe]

Hi Markx,
Welcome to the Forum.
The short answer, yes a skidsteer will dig in rocky ground, but there may be better options.
How big are the rocks? And how hard is the soil? How much volume of soil/rocks? How sharp are the rocks?
Regardless of whether you go with a skidsteer or something bigger (i.e. articulated front end loader, track loader), sounds to me like you would need a toothed bucket.
Tire life could be a concern if the rocks are particularly sharp. In which case a track loader may be better suited.
The magnitude of the machine will dictate how quickly the job goes.
Hope this helps - SR

 

[Markx]

Hi Markx,
Welcome to the Forum.
The short answer, yes a skidsteer will dig in rocky ground, but there may be better options.
How big are the rocks? And how hard is the soil? How much volume of soil/rocks? How sharp are the rocks?
Regardless of whether you go with a skidsteer or something bigger (i.e. articulated front end loader, track loader), sounds to me like you would need a toothed bucket.
Tire life could be a concern if the rocks are particularly sharp. In which case a track loader may be better suited.
The magnitude of the machine will dictate how quickly the job goes.
Hope this helps - SR

Hi and thanks for the answer. I know I am being a bit vague but as I said, we have a tight budget so we are very limited. It is about 95% volcanic rocks of all sizes with no real soil, Hard to describe! Not quite as bad as this picture: https://www.indietraveller.co/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/P1010694.jpg

 

[SkidRoe]

Hi and thanks for the answer. I know I am being a bit vague but as I said, we have a tight budget so we are very limited. It is about 95% volcanic rocks of all sizes with no real soil, Hard to describe! Not quite as bad as this picture: https://www.indietraveller.co/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/P1010694.jpg

Wow - I am thinking that you may want to add a grapple to that toothed bucket.
You will definitively want a machine of a significant size - like an old Bobcat 7XX or 8XX machine if you go skidsteer.
Would you be importing a machine or procuring one locally?
Cheers - SR

 

[Markx]

Wow - I am thinking that you may want to add a grapple to that toothed bucket.
You will definitively want a machine of a significant size - like an old Bobcat 7XX or 8XX machine if you go skidsteer.
Would you be importing a machine or procuring one locally?
Cheers - SR

We would be getting one from mainland Portugal and probably buying blind.

 

[reaperman]

We would be getting one from mainland Portugal and probably buying blind.

From what I see, a bobcat would have its hands full unless its a large track machine. If it was me, I would hire someone with a dozer or excavator to do the job and avoid what could be disaster if mechanical troubles occur. Added with the hassle of trying to resell the machine later.

 

[Hotrod1830]

From what I see, a bobcat would have its hands full unless its a large track machine. If it was me, I would hire someone with a dozer or excavator to do the job and avoid what could be disaster if mechanical troubles occur. Added with the hassle of trying to resell the machine later.

Doesnt look too bad for a large frame skid steer. You didnt mention how solid the rock base was. A tooth bucket would be mandatory. A ripper attachment May be in order.
The only part that concerns me is your buying a machine site unseen. Add to that you say you are on a limited budget, and that could be trouble. When these machines break down, they are expensive to repair. If you get it cheap enough, and can absorb that cost in the resale, that is a win. Often times, thats not the case. In order to do that, we often have to buy a machine in need of repair and super cheap. Are you wanting to do that, or just buy a skid steer turn key and go?
Is there anyplace there that will rent you one? Usually rentals arent a bad choice for doing just one job. And, you can add insurance for breakdowns, otherwise, they are on the renter. Around here, they are around $1000 a week.

 

[Markx]

Doesnt look too bad for a large frame skid steer. You didnt mention how solid the rock base was. A tooth bucket would be mandatory. A ripper attachment May be in order.
The only part that concerns me is your buying a machine site unseen. Add to that you say you are on a limited budget, and that could be trouble. When these machines break down, they are expensive to repair. If you get it cheap enough, and can absorb that cost in the resale, that is a win. Often times, thats not the case. In order to do that, we often have to buy a machine in need of repair and super cheap. Are you wanting to do that, or just buy a skid steer turn key and go?
Is there anyplace there that will rent you one? Usually rentals arent a bad choice for doing just one job. And, you can add insurance for breakdowns, otherwise, they are on the renter. Around here, they are around $1000 a week.

@ Reaperman: Yes, that is something we considered... @Hotrod1830: I was thinking it would be just about doable with a Skid Steer, slowly, especially since my time is free and the cost would just be Diesel and any repairs. Meanwhile, I looked at the used prices of Backhoes and they are the same price as used Skid Steers here. A Case 580K is generally cheaper than a Bobcat 753! The transport costs from the mainland are nearly double though. But I also had the brainwave of asking a neighbour who owns a small construction firm if we could borrow/rent their machines at weekends and he not only said yes but offered to come and help us, since it is for a club and hence the community. So we now have the use of a Backhoe, a skid steer, a Lorry and a skilled driver! I am also told that there are laws in the pipeline to force people to register and number-plate their construction machines and have them tested regularly. I have VERY reluctantly come to the conclusion that it would not be wise to buy a machine now. Pity, because I was really looking forward to playing with a new toy... I am sure I could have built most of the shooting range on my own. We still have some red tape to cut through, which will take much longer than we expect, so let's see what the situation is when we are actually ready to build...

 

[SkidRoe]

@ Reaperman: Yes, that is something we considered... @Hotrod1830: I was thinking it would be just about doable with a Skid Steer, slowly, especially since my time is free and the cost would just be Diesel and any repairs. Meanwhile, I looked at the used prices of Backhoes and they are the same price as used Skid Steers here. A Case 580K is generally cheaper than a Bobcat 753! The transport costs from the mainland are nearly double though. But I also had the brainwave of asking a neighbour who owns a small construction firm if we could borrow/rent their machines at weekends and he not only said yes but offered to come and help us, since it is for a club and hence the community. So we now have the use of a Backhoe, a skid steer, a Lorry and a skilled driver! I am also told that there are laws in the pipeline to force people to register and number-plate their construction machines and have them tested regularly. I have VERY reluctantly come to the conclusion that it would not be wise to buy a machine now. Pity, because I was really looking forward to playing with a new toy... I am sure I could have built most of the shooting range on my own. We still have some red tape to cut through, which will take much longer than we expect, so let's see what the situation is when we are actually ready to build...

Sounds like you have a very workable solution there. Glad it all came together for you. Would be interested to see some before and after pictures if you could post some.
Cheers - SR

 

[Skidder2]

@ Reaperman: Yes, that is something we considered... @Hotrod1830: I was thinking it would be just about doable with a Skid Steer, slowly, especially since my time is free and the cost would just be Diesel and any repairs. Meanwhile, I looked at the used prices of Backhoes and they are the same price as used Skid Steers here. A Case 580K is generally cheaper than a Bobcat 753! The transport costs from the mainland are nearly double though. But I also had the brainwave of asking a neighbour who owns a small construction firm if we could borrow/rent their machines at weekends and he not only said yes but offered to come and help us, since it is for a club and hence the community. So we now have the use of a Backhoe, a skid steer, a Lorry and a skilled driver! I am also told that there are laws in the pipeline to force people to register and number-plate their construction machines and have them tested regularly. I have VERY reluctantly come to the conclusion that it would not be wise to buy a machine now. Pity, because I was really looking forward to playing with a new toy... I am sure I could have built most of the shooting range on my own. We still have some red tape to cut through, which will take much longer than we expect, so let's see what the situation is when we are actually ready to build...

@ Marx. What environmental permits , if any , are you having to contend with for you project?

 

[Markx]

@ Marx. What environmental permits , if any , are you having to contend with for you project?

In the 90's the large piece of land was donated by the Forestry Service and the local council to a clay pigeon shooting club as a shooting ground which now has very few members. There is plenty of space for us to do a combined 50/25m range and an IPSC bay for dynamic Pistol. Environmentally, our type of shooting is much lower impact compared to the amount of lead the Clay club have scattered all over the place, so we should be OK. The main permit is the one given by the PSP Police at the end to certify that the range satisfies their criteria. The law says we need to have 3m berms either side and a 4m high one at the target end, plus a covered firing point. There are some large rocks scattered around which can be used for the outsides of the berms but everything inside has to be made ricochet resistant mostly by using Vocanic ash/slag which is cheap and easy to get by the lorry load. We also need to build wooden baffles accross the top of the range to stop bullets from exiting. Fortunately there is plenty of wood available free for that. The material is cheap, it's the moving of it that costs the money.

 

[foton]

In the 90's the large piece of land was donated by the Forestry Service and the local council to a clay pigeon shooting club as a shooting ground which now has very few members. There is plenty of space for us to do a combined 50/25m range and an IPSC bay for dynamic Pistol. Environmentally, our type of shooting is much lower impact compared to the amount of lead the Clay club have scattered all over the place, so we should be OK. The main permit is the one given by the PSP Police at the end to certify that the range satisfies their criteria. The law says we need to have 3m berms either side and a 4m high one at the target end, plus a covered firing point. There are some large rocks scattered around which can be used for the outsides of the berms but everything inside has to be made ricochet resistant mostly by using Vocanic ash/slag which is cheap and easy to get by the lorry load. We also need to build wooden baffles accross the top of the range to stop bullets from exiting. Fortunately there is plenty of wood available free for that. The material is cheap, it's the moving of it that costs the money.

would a piece of machinery with a jack hammer attachment be wise to loosen the rock? , it would make it easier to then relocate.

 

[Markx]

would a piece of machinery with a jack hammer attachment be wise to loosen the rock? , it would make it easier to then relocate.

Yes, I was thinking about a hammer attachment. It would be nice but used hammers are about 1500€ upwards. It is a factor in looking at the used backhoe specs though. Not that many have the extra hose fitted already. The other thing that would be good to have are Rock lifters/tongs. It should be fairly cheap and easy to make some: https://tinyurl.com/y3l68cj4 https://tinyurl.com/y5qnufy5

 

[foton]

Yes, I was thinking about a hammer attachment. It would be nice but used hammers are about 1500€ upwards. It is a factor in looking at the used backhoe specs though. Not that many have the extra hose fitted already. The other thing that would be good to have are Rock lifters/tongs. It should be fairly cheap and easy to make some: https://tinyurl.com/y3l68cj4 https://tinyurl.com/y5qnufy5

If you do go down the backhoe or excavator road or even a skid steer with a hoe attachment a thumb would be very helpful for loading rocks, looks like to do what you need to do in a timely manor you could use more than one piece of equipment.