Snow Plow Bracing

[mllud]

A buddy of mine gave me a plow off one of his old trucks after he sold his plowing business.
I looked at plows at the Bobcat Dealer, in parking lots and a number of truck plow conversions. Everything I looked at 5 years ago was a fixed mount. I ASSuMEd that was the way to go since everyone was building them that way.
So out to the shop, I did a quick figure on the angles I wanted and burned it together. The first winter I tried different approaches to using it and it didn't work as well as I thought it could. I starting talking to the plow operators asking what they liked and disliked about the equipment they were using. The float issue came up over and over.
I happened across a plow at a local rental place that had float built in with pivots, a pair of arms coming down from the Quicktach that would press on the plow frame when you tilted the Quicktach forward and a chain to limit the plow drop. This really got me thinking.
I like things to work properly. I sketched a couple of designs that would do what I wanted but were over "designed". I just wanted the bare essentials. A new sketch, some cardboard templates to determine proper hole locations and it looked like a plan. It took me almost as long to cut the old setup apart as it took to build the new setup. (The first time I welded it like I never wanted it to come apart!) I've got to get a gouging tip for the torch. Grinding out welds is a pain!
This sharing of ideas is what this forum is all about. I'm sure someone will come up with a better solution than mine. I just hope they take the time to share their ideas. I have learned much from reading this forum. Sometime just reading the discussions will get me thinking from a different point of view. I have always believed the best designs were created from people who have to USE the product.
A friend of my brothers gave him a near new Wolf Plow for the Bobcat . His friend bought it new and got disgusted with the performance and put it in the shed and quit using it. Went back to using the plow truck. A couple years later the plow migrated out to my brothers place. He is now thinking about cutting it up and building some float into it.

Trihonu: I agree with you on all the benefits of the forum.Its a brainstorming session with a very diverse group.Ive worked with engineers that didnt know how to hold a screwdriver, Hands on experience with with equipment thats lacking in [whatever] is where ideas to make it better are born. Its a shame manufacturers dont work closer with the people that operate it. They could profit from doing so. Mike

 

[skidsteer.ca]

Trihonu: I agree with you on all the benefits of the forum.Its a brainstorming session with a very diverse group.Ive worked with engineers that didnt know how to hold a screwdriver, Hands on experience with with equipment thats lacking in [whatever] is where ideas to make it better are born. Its a shame manufacturers dont work closer with the people that operate it. They could profit from doing so. Mike

No one know your needs better then you. That why cutom built equipment often works the best.
Manufacturers have to convince themselves that
1 it is feasable
2 the idea is marketable
3 their customers are all going to be willing to pay the additional expense.
If any one of these points is questionable the feature get scrapped
Where as the end user/manufacturer only has to worry #1, the rest they already know
Ken

 

[TriHonu]

No one know your needs better then you. That why cutom built equipment often works the best.
Manufacturers have to convince themselves that
1 it is feasable
2 the idea is marketable
3 their customers are all going to be willing to pay the additional expense.
If any one of these points is questionable the feature get scrapped
Where as the end user/manufacturer only has to worry #1, the rest they already know
Ken

Ken, you forgot about the lawyers...
The Lawyers must insure that the product is designed so no one will sue the manufacturer. They put themselves in the position of our parent and feel the need to protect us from harming ourselves. To them the perfect product has no moving parts, is totally inert, does nothing and can be sold for enough money to pay their salaries...

I have been around enough equipment to appreciate well designed equipment and safety systems. On a couple of occasions I have tested those safety features and were damn glad they were there. However, I understand the operation of machinery is dangerous. I fully understand the risks and am prepared to take the risk to get the benefits of their use.
Somehow society has adopted the belief that nothing is our fault. Combined with the fact that a significant portion of the population feels the only way to get ahead is to win the lottery or their pending lawsuit...
It was a low day in judicial history when that elderly lady sued McDonald's because she spilled HOT coffee in her lap, and won. We have broken Darwin's Theory of Natural Selection; in the USA the stupid are making a comeback...

 

[mllud]

Ken, you forgot about the lawyers...
The Lawyers must insure that the product is designed so no one will sue the manufacturer. They put themselves in the position of our parent and feel the need to protect us from harming ourselves. To them the perfect product has no moving parts, is totally inert, does nothing and can be sold for enough money to pay their salaries...
I have been around enough equipment to appreciate well designed equipment and safety systems. On a couple of occasions I have tested those safety features and were damn glad they were there. However, I understand the operation of machinery is dangerous. I fully understand the risks and am prepared to take the risk to get the benefits of their use.
Somehow society has adopted the belief that nothing is our fault. Combined with the fact that a significant portion of the population feels the only way to get ahead is to win the lottery or their pending lawsuit...
It was a low day in judicial history when that elderly lady sued McDonald's because she spilled HOT coffee in her lap, and won. We have broken Darwin's Theory of Natural Selection; in the USA the stupid are making a comeback...

They do have to look at making things that work well for a most people. rather than making things that are great for a few.And on all the law suits. all those costs get passed back to us. The Insuurance companys arent going to loose money. Mike

 

[sterlclan]

They do have to look at making things that work well for a most people. rather than making things that are great for a few.And on all the law suits. all those costs get passed back to us. The Insuurance companys arent going to loose money. Mike

I run a fisher 7.5 the a frame is welded solid to the bobtach its braced to the top of the plow all the float comes from the center pivot and slotted top brace I have a gravel drive with hills and slopes haven't had a speck of trouble .......yet........Jeff

 

[TriHonu]

I run a fisher 7.5 the a frame is welded solid to the bobtach its braced to the top of the plow all the float comes from the center pivot and slotted top brace I have a gravel drive with hills and slopes haven't had a speck of trouble .......yet........Jeff

Jeff,
did you weld the Quicktach to the Fisher's original hoop that held the pump assembly? I'm having a hard time picturing your setup.
How about a pic?

 

[sterlclan]

Jeff,
did you weld the Quicktach to the Fisher's original hoop that held the pump assembly? I'm having a hard time picturing your setup.
How about a pic?

I uploaded some pics........not easy on 26k I should mention that the plow was well used before adapting to the bobcat thus making the center pivot well worn I first tried without the top brace and proceeded to break the welds where the a frame meets the plate Ive been using it in its current state for the last couple of years with no obvious damage.....Jeff http://www.skidsteerforum.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=52&gallerypage=0&path=fisher%20snowplow%20to%20bobcat

 

[TriHonu]

I uploaded some pics........not easy on 26k I should mention that the plow was well used before adapting to the bobcat thus making the center pivot well worn I first tried without the top brace and proceeded to break the welds where the a frame meets the plate Ive been using it in its current state for the last couple of years with no obvious damage.....Jeff http://www.skidsteerforum.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=52&gallerypage=0&path=fisher%20snowplow%20to%20bobcat

Thanks.
Got it, your top bracket is slotted left to right allowing the corner of the blade to raise to adjust to the cross slope.
I see you like painting about as much as I do

(I don't mind the painting, I just hate the rust removal and prep to do a good job.) My grader attachment is still in the shop. I needed to do a couple of repairs and my buddy shamed me in painting it with the comment "You already have it taken apart, you might as well paint it." After the degreasing, pressure washing, grinding and needle scaling done a little at a time over the summer, it got too cold to paint it. So I warmed up the shop enough to spray a light coat of quick dry primer on it. It is still resting on dollies in the shop...

 

[sterlclan]

Thanks.
Got it, your top bracket is slotted left to right allowing the corner of the blade to raise to adjust to the cross slope.
I see you like painting about as much as I do (I don't mind the painting, I just hate the rust removal and prep to do a good job.) My grader attachment is still in the shop. I needed to do a couple of repairs and my buddy shamed me in painting it with the comment "You already have it taken apart, you might as well paint it." After the degreasing, pressure washing, grinding and needle scaling done a little at a time over the summer, it got too cold to paint it. So I warmed up the shop enough to spray a light coat of quick dry primer on it. It is still resting on dollies in the shop...

yup the top is actually slotted in an arc works fine as for the paint I did it for a living for 15 years..............sometimes I just don't feel like it .when I think of it its like 10 below, 3.60 for kerosene Ill just wait...Jeff

 

[mllud]

yup the top is actually slotted in an arc works fine as for the paint I did it for a living for 15 years..............sometimes I just don't feel like it .when I think of it its like 10 below, 3.60 for kerosene Ill just wait...Jeff

Jeff: That looks good. Thanks for all the great Ideas.I need to get my plan down and get started. Mike

 

[Land-Tech]

Jeff: That looks good. Thanks for all the great Ideas.I need to get my plan down and get started. Mike

If you don't have a backboard but you have most of an old plow you can mount it on an existing set of forks,I built this for my Mustang ten years ago and then retro fit to my Gehl.I use it commercially and have for ten years. Left picture was taken before I redid the wings.fourth pic is today with new wings and cutting edge.with the modified wings I can rotate the cutting edge with the arms and tilt so that it cuts better.makes a big difference.
before I rounded off the front corner of the wings, I caught a street drain and broke a cylinder. you can see it on the floor in second pic. I use 1/4 hyd right off the aux fitting. this is the second cyl in ten years and you have to be traveling fast with a lot of down pressure to break.You can drop the arm and let the plow float on its own weight and it will bounce over most things.the worst thing to do with a snowplow is to built it like you are going cut a grade.It works better to float on the cutting edge with plow actually rotating with whatever off camber drive you are plowing.It also allows for the plows cutting edge to stay on the ground when you have the blade at an angle. I upgraded the pivot pin from 3/4" to 1" grade 8 bolt as well as all the cyl pins to grade 8 with lock nuts.
This thing is beat to death and the upper edge of plow bent from pulling people out of drifts. there is also a big advantage to extending the distance that the plow is from the machine. not only can you stack snow higher but I feel you can push snow easier. I can discuss details if you have questions.

 

[mllud]

If you don't have a backboard but you have most of an old plow you can mount it on an existing set of forks,I built this for my Mustang ten years ago and then retro fit to my Gehl.I use it commercially and have for ten years. Left picture was taken before I redid the wings.fourth pic is today with new wings and cutting edge.with the modified wings I can rotate the cutting edge with the arms and tilt so that it cuts better.makes a big difference.
before I rounded off the front corner of the wings, I caught a street drain and broke a cylinder. you can see it on the floor in second pic. I use 1/4 hyd right off the aux fitting. this is the second cyl in ten years and you have to be traveling fast with a lot of down pressure to break.You can drop the arm and let the plow float on its own weight and it will bounce over most things.the worst thing to do with a snowplow is to built it like you are going cut a grade.It works better to float on the cutting edge with plow actually rotating with whatever off camber drive you are plowing.It also allows for the plows cutting edge to stay on the ground when you have the blade at an angle. I upgraded the pivot pin from 3/4" to 1" grade 8 bolt as well as all the cyl pins to grade 8 with lock nuts.
This thing is beat to death and the upper edge of plow bent from pulling people out of drifts. there is also a big advantage to extending the distance that the plow is from the machine. not only can you stack snow higher but I feel you can push snow easier. I can discuss details if you have questions.

I do have the complete unit. it would be nice to keep the top cyl. to adjust tilt. I might have a question on the plumbing to controling the third cylinder. I could plumb it , I might not do it the easiest way. Mike

 

[jerry]

I do have the complete unit. it would be nice to keep the top cyl. to adjust tilt. I might have a question on the plumbing to controling the third cylinder. I could plumb it , I might not do it the easiest way. Mike

Mike my plow is just a old 7 ft manual angle western and I use the chain for the top link. have never really had a need for down pressure on our gravel drive, and you can change the angle of the cutting edge by lifting or lowering the boom. What I have to do is put a cylinder on for hyd angle. If it was out further it would let you pile it up higher but it would take up more room in the garage. jerry

 

[mllud]

Mike my plow is just a old 7 ft manual angle western and I use the chain for the top link. have never really had a need for down pressure on our gravel drive, and you can change the angle of the cutting edge by lifting or lowering the boom. What I have to do is put a cylinder on for hyd angle. If it was out further it would let you pile it up higher but it would take up more room in the garage. jerry

Jerry I see what you mean on the on the third cyl its not necceary with bucket tilt I wondered about The chain top link. I think its one of the first questions I asked on this post. Ive gotten a lot of great points of view on this post. know I want to keep it flexable to limits and may give a chain top link a try first.we get ice somtimes .down presure wouldnt help much with that anyway. We have 6 to 9 inches falling outside right now. Between now and midnight. I guess Ill be using the bucket. Just went out and took up a link on loergering tracks. Fun tonight. Thanks Mike

 

[mllud]

Jerry I see what you mean on the on the third cyl its not necceary with bucket tilt I wondered about The chain top link. I think its one of the first questions I asked on this post. Ive gotten a lot of great points of view on this post. know I want to keep it flexable to limits and may give a chain top link a try first.we get ice somtimes .down presure wouldnt help much with that anyway. We have 6 to 9 inches falling outside right now. Between now and midnight. I guess Ill be using the bucket. Just went out and took up a link on loergering tracks. Fun tonight. Thanks Mike

LAND TECH what advantage is the tilt cylinder when you have bucket tilt to change angle.It so you can keep the boom down on the stops while pushing and still be able to change tilt. Mike

 

[skidsteer.ca]

LAND TECH what advantage is the tilt cylinder when you have bucket tilt to change angle.It so you can keep the boom down on the stops while pushing and still be able to change tilt. Mike

Mike
The best thing I have found for ice is to take the tooth bucket and rough the top up. It chizels right into it
Ken

 

[Land-Tech]

LAND TECH what advantage is the tilt cylinder when you have bucket tilt to change angle.It so you can keep the boom down on the stops while pushing and still be able to change tilt. Mike

mllud
When you tilt with the bucket cyl you have a tendency to take weight off your front wheels with a loss of traction. If I'm pushing a lot of snow and the blade is full I'm usually down on the stops. With both wings on ,you will find that traction and keeping your speed up gets diffiicult carry it to your pile.When I start spinning I will lift my arms a little and put as much weight of the machine on the tires.another way is to use the float if you have one.On my clean up passes I will lift my arms and tilt forward until I feel it cutting, as the blade fills up it will create even more down pressure.This where the plow being further away from the machine works Sometimes slower is better if the conditions are right.I f I am doing a gravel drive ,I don't want too much down pressure or I take to much gravel or catch exposed rocks.If the area to be plowed is an unknown stay down on your stops use the float if you can.If it is a long drive take off one wing so you can get rid of snow and not dog out.
Most of my plowing is parking lots with the cars leaving before I get there,and the drives are packed snow so cutting that down before it turns to ice is important. when you let it build up through the season it becmes a mess at break-up. with our small machines we have to use a little finesse and techniqe to get things done
Now ,once I've said my 2 cents some one is going to go out there a break something doing it this way and some will say I use my machine in a incorrect or unsafe way. I will apologize ahead of time. This works with this particular plow and the way I have it set up. I've had enough experience with it that I feel I can put these ideas out there in the forum and they have merit. scott

 

[mllud]

mllud
When you tilt with the bucket cyl you have a tendency to take weight off your front wheels with a loss of traction. If I'm pushing a lot of snow and the blade is full I'm usually down on the stops. With both wings on ,you will find that traction and keeping your speed up gets diffiicult carry it to your pile.When I start spinning I will lift my arms a little and put as much weight of the machine on the tires.another way is to use the float if you have one.On my clean up passes I will lift my arms and tilt forward until I feel it cutting, as the blade fills up it will create even more down pressure.This where the plow being further away from the machine works Sometimes slower is better if the conditions are right.I f I am doing a gravel drive ,I don't want too much down pressure or I take to much gravel or catch exposed rocks.If the area to be plowed is an unknown stay down on your stops use the float if you can.If it is a long drive take off one wing so you can get rid of snow and not dog out.
Most of my plowing is parking lots with the cars leaving before I get there,and the drives are packed snow so cutting that down before it turns to ice is important. when you let it build up through the season it becmes a mess at break-up. with our small machines we have to use a little finesse and techniqe to get things done
Now ,once I've said my 2 cents some one is going to go out there a break something doing it this way and some will say I use my machine in a incorrect or unsafe way. I will apologize ahead of time. This works with this particular plow and the way I have it set up. I've had enough experience with it that I feel I can put these ideas out there in the forum and they have merit. scott

Ken: Thanks for the tip on the tooth bucket. I have one of those. LANDTECH: Your Information is excellant. Things can be broken regaurdless of the design. It has a lot to do with the operator. Common sence, being able to look at something and knowing how far to go.Force and leverage is a great when used right. Thanks to everyone for putting your experience and knowledge ynto this thread. Mike

 

[jerry]

Ken: Thanks for the tip on the tooth bucket. I have one of those. LANDTECH: Your Information is excellant. Things can be broken regaurdless of the design. It has a lot to do with the operator. Common sence, being able to look at something and knowing how far to go.Force and leverage is a great when used right. Thanks to everyone for putting your experience and knowledge ynto this thread. Mike

Mike , speaking of breaking things, after seeing these other types of upper links I may change my chain out for something stronger as I have broken it twice this winter and just replaced it with a larger one which I think will stretch and break also. It breaks as you are pushing the snow up on the pile and are going forward yet there is a lot of strain on it. jerry

 

[sterlclan]

Mike , speaking of breaking things, after seeing these other types of upper links I may change my chain out for something stronger as I have broken it twice this winter and just replaced it with a larger one which I think will stretch and break also. It breaks as you are pushing the snow up on the pile and are going forward yet there is a lot of strain on it. jerry

that was the reason for adding the top link on mine it is loose enough that it doesn't do anything till it has to (read that as sloppy) when using down pressure or pushing the piles up the worn pivot lets the blade catch the top brace and tighten up two years and going strong.......had to weld the a frame every other storm before the brace common sense goes a long way if it feels like it could break it most likely will......Jeff