"Should I stay or should I go"?

[mmarrie]

What a great band! Anyway, this is my quandary. I like NH for many reasons, stability, dependability, longevity, etc. I bought my first LS170 over other brands because the dealer is local, good farmer guys and I'm not a mechanic. I've have 5 machines new and used, all good. I use machines almost exclusively for snow removal. Years back I bought a circa 2000 LS180 on a deal because he owed me money, great machine, but lately (last 2 years) bad fuel and brittle hoses have taken a toll. I've repaired all things broken. Its always been a hard start in cold weather but lately impossible, even with a block heater. A few things are worse than no start/hard starts and breakdowns, usually hoses, at 2 am in 10 inches of snow, not many though. Could replace all hoses on machine for around $1800 I'm told. Then there's the hard start. NH mechanic says to NOT use ether, but it works. I switched fuel suppliers and that has helped. New battery every 24 months. What's the history of this machine for repairs at age 16 with 2000 hours? (pumps, chains, engine, etc.) Or should I go buy something newer, and more complicated and more costly? Year 2000 with less than 2k hours is probably worth around 15k, a good downpayment. Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[Tazza]

With e block heater, it shouldn't be too horrible to start in the cold weather. Does the engine feel warm to the touch? i wonder if the wattage is too low.
Can you cycle the glow plugs to get them extra warm to get it to fire
It is possible that the compression is lower, making it harder to start too, a compression test would tell you a lot here. You really want a machine you can depend on, you want to jump in and have it fire up.

 

[mmarrie]

With e block heater, it shouldn't be too horrible to start in the cold weather. Does the engine feel warm to the touch? i wonder if the wattage is too low.
Can you cycle the glow plugs to get them extra warm to get it to fire
It is possible that the compression is lower, making it harder to start too, a compression test would tell you a lot here. You really want a machine you can depend on, you want to jump in and have it fire up.

Thanks for response. I don't know if it feels warm but engine turnover is lots better when using the warmer. I do warm glow plug twice, three times and after every failed crank. NH mechanic thinks it fuel, but I'm using same fuel in other machines. It could be the compression, I'll check it. Maybe not soon though, its construction season.

 

[Clone]

Thanks for response. I don't know if it feels warm but engine turnover is lots better when using the warmer. I do warm glow plug twice, three times and after every failed crank. NH mechanic thinks it fuel, but I'm using same fuel in other machines. It could be the compression, I'll check it. Maybe not soon though, its construction season.

Have the glow plugs been checked? Just one or two bad ones can make or break a machine starting in the cold.

 

[mmarrie]

Have the glow plugs been checked? Just one or two bad ones can make or break a machine starting in the cold.

You could be right about the plugs. Do you know how many glow plugs a 180 has? I think its only one. It could have been bad for years and I would know it. I'll add to list. I do know one thing. After cranking and cranking, one small shot of ether and it turns over. A friend has a old Gehl and he uses ether all winter and hasn't done a ring job.

 

[jerry]

You could be right about the plugs. Do you know how many glow plugs a 180 has? I think its only one. It could have been bad for years and I would know it. I'll add to list. I do know one thing. After cranking and cranking, one small shot of ether and it turns over. A friend has a old Gehl and he uses ether all winter and hasn't done a ring job.

Not sure about your 180 but my 1999 665 starts good below zero with a 15 second glow when all the glow plugs are lighting up. If one plug does not glow it will start very hard. Check the plug rail for power first and then the individual plugs. You may have a engine without plugs and a preheat grid in the air intake instead. Same thing no power to preheater , no start. When checking glow plugs take them out and test to make sure they glow quickly.

 

[mmarrie]

Not sure about your 180 but my 1999 665 starts good below zero with a 15 second glow when all the glow plugs are lighting up. If one plug does not glow it will start very hard. Check the plug rail for power first and then the individual plugs. You may have a engine without plugs and a preheat grid in the air intake instead. Same thing no power to preheater , no start. When checking glow plugs take them out and test to make sure they glow quickly.

All good advise guys. I've informed the dealer several times of hard starts and no suggestions or mention of checking glow plug function. Maybe they checked out ok. No mention of compression or the need to check. Once running it's got good power, quick 2speed travel. Had to disable 2 speed. Knucklehead running it, otherwise a very good operator, hit a manhole cover. I happened to be sitting right there. He was in high gear. Machine left the ground he was going so fast. Blew both top cylinders out, seat switch and bent the bucket, $3500 fix. How much do you think compression check and all glow plugs would run?

 

[mfyock]

You really need to get your machine to a GOOD mechanic that can go over the machine for you. Where are you located? Any good independent shops? There are many things that could be going on. If I remember correctly this engine doesn't have glow plugs. It has a heater that heats the incoming combustion air. That heater may not be working. The relay that runs that heater may not be working. I have seen hard to start machines do to undersize battery cables. Someone replaces the battery cables with cheap auto store cables. The cables wont flow enough current to get the engine spinning quickly. Bad/Corroded cables will also do this. A couple hours with a GOOD mechanic and they should be able to give you an idea of whats going on.

 

[mmarrie]

You really need to get your machine to a GOOD mechanic that can go over the machine for you. Where are you located? Any good independent shops? There are many things that could be going on. If I remember correctly this engine doesn't have glow plugs. It has a heater that heats the incoming combustion air. That heater may not be working. The relay that runs that heater may not be working. I have seen hard to start machines do to undersize battery cables. Someone replaces the battery cables with cheap auto store cables. The cables wont flow enough current to get the engine spinning quickly. Bad/Corroded cables will also do this. A couple hours with a GOOD mechanic and they should be able to give you an idea of whats going on.

I'm in Carroll county Maryland, southwest of Baltimore. And I don't know of any independent shops. Like I said in original post its why I chose NH, the dealer was close. They are a bunch of hillbillies though, some of double talk but good people. One did say that LS180 did not have glow plugs and then 2 years later said they did If you have any suggestions, please send. I know cables are good. I installed keyed cutoff switches and used good material. lost a machine to theft few years back, an ASV PT30, sweetest little machine I ever had for sidewalks. Anyway, know of someone in the area I'm listening.

 

[Clone]

I'm in Carroll county Maryland, southwest of Baltimore. And I don't know of any independent shops. Like I said in original post its why I chose NH, the dealer was close. They are a bunch of hillbillies though, some of double talk but good people. One did say that LS180 did not have glow plugs and then 2 years later said they did If you have any suggestions, please send. I know cables are good. I installed keyed cutoff switches and used good material. lost a machine to theft few years back, an ASV PT30, sweetest little machine I ever had for sidewalks. Anyway, know of someone in the area I'm listening.

After reading this post, there is a cold start advance on the injection pump as well that will assist in starting. Here is a thread here that might give you more info. http://www.skidsteerforum.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=54&frmView=ShowPost&PostID=59348

 

[mfyock]

After reading this post, there is a cold start advance on the injection pump as well that will assist in starting. Here is a thread here that might give you more info. http://www.skidsteerforum.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=54&frmView=ShowPost&PostID=59348

I would think Ceresville New Holland in Frederick MD would be able to figure it out. They do a lot of ag work. I know an independent shop up here in Lancaster county pa that I know would fix you up. They are very busy so you would have to wait 2 weeks, but he only charges $40/hr. They have don't a lot of work for me.

 

[jerry]

I would think Ceresville New Holland in Frederick MD would be able to figure it out. They do a lot of ag work. I know an independent shop up here in Lancaster county pa that I know would fix you up. They are very busy so you would have to wait 2 weeks, but he only charges $40/hr. They have don't a lot of work for me.

You need a mechanic who can read and write and accept suggestions first. Then show him how to access this forum, a lot of good money saving advice goes through here.

 

[mmarrie]

I would think Ceresville New Holland in Frederick MD would be able to figure it out. They do a lot of ag work. I know an independent shop up here in Lancaster county pa that I know would fix you up. They are very busy so you would have to wait 2 weeks, but he only charges $40/hr. They have don't a lot of work for me.

If you could pass on the independent shop info I'd appreciate it. The dealer mechanics are good people and charge a fair rate and it's partly my fault for not talking to them during the summer when they can keep the loader for as long as they need to. During snow I have to have it back yesterday. I do the oil, filters, grease, tires, light stuff myself. Not to say I wouldn't try another shop. All real good points. I'm makin a list. Email address [email protected]