New owner of an 843 -- few questions

[nadgob]

Hi. Just wanted to post an intro thread. Glad to have found this great forum. Special thanks to OldMachinist, for answering some questions for me back in August. I have a small 453 I purchased about a year ago, and was instantly hooked, always looking for reasons to use it. I quickly learned the limits of that machine though, and stumbled upon this 843. So.. a few weeks ago, I picked up a well used 843 with about 4700 hours on the meter. Came with a bobcat grapple bucket, and backhoe attachment. Starts on the first try, seems to have tons of power (only have a 453 to compare with, ha!), has no trouble moving, no smoke, hydraulics seem to work great. It has a few quirks here and there, but for the price I paid, I think I got a steal. Luckily for me, I am just using the machines for a remodel on a small 1/4 acre property, so I have no commercial use for them, and don't rely on them to make a living, etc.

The machines:

Few things I would like to address on the 843..



--- When lifting the arms, the bucket tends to sag/tilt down, on its own, as I raise the arms.. It doesn't tilt down to the point where the load falls out, but it's almost as if it self-levels itself, but I don't believe it's supposed to do this. I assume this has to do with the age of the machine/seals, any pointers on where I can look to troubleshoot the issue?



--- I have about 15 hours on it so far, and haven't ran into any issues. Today, after moving some dirt, my wife found two small ball bearings on the ground. We're not sure where they came from, but I suspect they were part of something on the 843. I was hoping they were the small bearings on the aux. hydraulic connectors, but they all appear to be there. Any ideas on where else they could have come from? Any type of preventative maintenance/further investigation I need to do? Or.. just continue to run it until the problem presents itself? Here's a photo for reference.

--- It appears the gasket around the oil pan may be leaking.. and there appears to be oil by the crank pulley at the front of the motor. Not sure how deep into this I would like to dig, as I suspect it is a 25-30 year old machine, and I realize some leaks are to be expected.. but, if I need to do something to prevent a disaster in the future, please let me know.. Pic for reference.

--- It appears a hose is leaking some type of oil.. the fluid runs down and drips, accumulating on the bottom of the engine compartment.. I haven't lifted the cab or looked into it yet, but any ideas on what this hose is used for? Hydraulic line? Pics for reference.

--- I'd love to get in there and clean out the oil.. Is it safe to spray everything down with water / simple green? Is that what most people use?



--- The aux. hydraulic connectors on the front, near the arms, seem to leak hydraulic fluid over time.. You can see the oil residue in the top photo I posted with the machines side by side.. They appear to be the quick connect type.. do they wear out over time? Are they not tight enough? Any suggestions on what to replace them with?



--- I'm fairly certain my machine has the Isuzu engine.. anything I need to check prior to further operation? Any way to figure out the year of my machine? The SN is 5037-M-26504.



I believe those are the main concerns I'd love some feedback on at this point.. I have a few small things I have on my list to replace.. ex: missing fuel cap, broken bobtach lever handle, shredded seat, check/fix gauges/headlight knob..

Thanks in advance.

 

[OldMachinist]

The machine may have a bucket positioning valve for auto leveling of the bucket as it raises.
The ball bearings may be from a axle bearing. I'd jack and block the machine then check for axle up, down, in and out movement.
The oil on the front of the engine looks like a front crankshaft seal leak.
The hose thats leaking could be for the lift arm or oil cooler.
The seals in the aux connectors do wear out and leak sometimes.
Very important!
Grease the u-joints between the engine and pumps.

 

[OldMachinist]

The machine may have a bucket positioning valve for auto leveling of the bucket as it raises.
The ball bearings may be from a axle bearing. I'd jack and block the machine then check for axle up, down, in and out movement.
The oil on the front of the engine looks like a front crankshaft seal leak.
The hose thats leaking could be for the lift arm or oil cooler.
The seals in the aux connectors do wear out and leak sometimes.
Very important!
Grease the u-joints between the engine and pumps.

I also just noticed in the pictures that the front right tire tread is going the wrong way.

 

[nadgob]

The machine may have a bucket positioning valve for auto leveling of the bucket as it raises.
The ball bearings may be from a axle bearing. I'd jack and block the machine then check for axle up, down, in and out movement.
The oil on the front of the engine looks like a front crankshaft seal leak.
The hose thats leaking could be for the lift arm or oil cooler.
The seals in the aux connectors do wear out and leak sometimes.
Very important!
Grease the u-joints between the engine and pumps.

-- The machine may have a bucket positioning valve for auto leveling of the bucket as it raises.

That would make sense.. so I would be able to adjust the valve and maybe turn that feature off? As it is now, I just have to make sure I use both feet, and tilt the bucket back as I raise the arms.



-- The ball bearings may be from a axle bearing. I'd jack and block the machine then check for axle up, down, in and out movement.

Great idea, just what I was looking for, thanks!!!



-- The oil on the front of the engine looks like a front crankshaft seal leak.

Is it worth the effort to address this sooner than later, or live with it, until I have additional maintenance to perform? I don't much exp. with these engines, but I assume this is a pretty in-depth repair?



-- The hose thats leaking could be for the lift arm or oil cooler.

Will check further. Thanks.



-- The seals in the aux connectors do wear out and leak sometimes.

Makes sense, I think they were used frequently. I briefly browsed online and thought I saw them going for around $80 each.. is that really what they go for, or are there lower priced alternatives at a hydraulic shop? I don't mind paying whatever it costs, but it just seems a bit high for what it is.




-- Grease the u-joints between the engine and pumps.

I just read the two threads dealing with this issue in their entirety, twice! I will definitely make sure I grease the U-joint before I do any more work with this machine. THANK YOU!!



-- I also just noticed in the pictures that the front right tire tread is going the wrong way.

Good eye.. will work on addressing this. Again, thanks for the feedback.

 

[OldMachinist]

-- The machine may have a bucket positioning valve for auto leveling of the bucket as it raises.

That would make sense.. so I would be able to adjust the valve and maybe turn that feature off? As it is now, I just have to make sure I use both feet, and tilt the bucket back as I raise the arms.



-- The ball bearings may be from a axle bearing. I'd jack and block the machine then check for axle up, down, in and out movement.

Great idea, just what I was looking for, thanks!!!



-- The oil on the front of the engine looks like a front crankshaft seal leak.

Is it worth the effort to address this sooner than later, or live with it, until I have additional maintenance to perform? I don't much exp. with these engines, but I assume this is a pretty in-depth repair?



-- The hose thats leaking could be for the lift arm or oil cooler.

Will check further. Thanks.



-- The seals in the aux connectors do wear out and leak sometimes.

Makes sense, I think they were used frequently. I briefly browsed online and thought I saw them going for around $80 each.. is that really what they go for, or are there lower priced alternatives at a hydraulic shop? I don't mind paying whatever it costs, but it just seems a bit high for what it is.




-- Grease the u-joints between the engine and pumps.

I just read the two threads dealing with this issue in their entirety, twice! I will definitely make sure I grease the U-joint before I do any more work with this machine. THANK YOU!!



-- I also just noticed in the pictures that the front right tire tread is going the wrong way.

Good eye.. will work on addressing this. Again, thanks for the feedback.

The original bucket positioning valves on the 843 didn't have a on/off. There's a replacement part number that has a switch. You'll need to talk to a dealer to find out more.
Depending on the brand of the aux connectors there may be a seal kit available. If they're Parker's here's some info.
http://www.parker.com/literature/Quick Coupling/Catalog 3800_SectionB.pdf

 

[Tazza]

The original bucket positioning valves on the 843 didn't have a on/off. There's a replacement part number that has a switch. You'll need to talk to a dealer to find out more.
Depending on the brand of the aux connectors there may be a seal kit available. If they're Parker's here's some info.
http://www.parker.com/literature/Quick%20Coupling/Catalog%203800_SectionB.pdf

The balls may even be from a failed attempt of installing them into the detent of the control block. Some get lost and are so cheap to replace, they just get left.
The oil near the arms could be cracked and leaking hoses.
I'm with OM on the bucket positioning. Sounds like what you have, it shoudl keep the bucket at the same position through the lift, but will not go the other way when lowering.
No problem washing the machine out, just avoid spraying the connectors if possible.

 

[donald73d]

The balls may even be from a failed attempt of installing them into the detent of the control block. Some get lost and are so cheap to replace, they just get left.
The oil near the arms could be cracked and leaking hoses.
I'm with OM on the bucket positioning. Sounds like what you have, it shoudl keep the bucket at the same position through the lift, but will not go the other way when lowering.
No problem washing the machine out, just avoid spraying the connectors if possible.

At some point I suggest pulling off the seat & bracket, cleaning, dealing with rust and priming. You may find some odd things under the seat in addition to dirt & rust. You do not want that area to rust through. New seats are reasonable on EBAY. Even if you do not need a new seat, the area under the seat collects wet dirt and similar stuff. Make sure you have two warning lights that come on when the key is on, engine is not running. Does the hour meter run as it should. The bulbs may be burned out if they do not come on. You have two hydraulic filters. If you do not know the maint. history, I would replace them. But they are not cheap, like over $100 for the pair.

 

[nadgob]

At some point I suggest pulling off the seat & bracket, cleaning, dealing with rust and priming. You may find some odd things under the seat in addition to dirt & rust. You do not want that area to rust through. New seats are reasonable on EBAY. Even if you do not need a new seat, the area under the seat collects wet dirt and similar stuff. Make sure you have two warning lights that come on when the key is on, engine is not running. Does the hour meter run as it should. The bulbs may be burned out if they do not come on. You have two hydraulic filters. If you do not know the maint. history, I would replace them. But they are not cheap, like over $100 for the pair.

Thanks to everyone for the replies! Been a busy few weeks, haven't had too much time to work on the machines with another newborn here.

I finally got around to doing some maintenance on both. On the 843, changed the oil and filter, replaced the hydraulic hose, did a ton of cleaning, checked air filter, etc. One of the fittings on the u-joints took about 25 pumps of grease before feeling some resistance.. I have more peace of mind now that that's done. A long grease hose is definitely key to getting in there. New seat should be here tomorrow. I ordered a new temp gauge for the 453, and noticed that the one on the 843 is also not functioning. Neither is the hour meter, ugh.

Few more questions:


-- I'll be replacing the temp gauge with an aftermarket digital one. Does anyone know what temperature fahrenheit this engine (Isuzu) usually runs at? Just so I can have an idea? Any idea on what temp the Kubota D722 engine in my 453 should be at?


-- Checked the crankcase. The level was good, but the fluid was a light chocolate milk color, almost creamy. Not sure when the last time was that it was changed. I've read of some people draining the crankcase, and then draining their oil hydraulic fluid into the crankcase. My existing hydraulic fluid looks to be fairly clean but I plan to replace it just for safe measure.. Any negative effects of reusing my old hydraulic fluid in the crankcase?


-- Trying to figure out a way to tackle this bobtach lever repair.. the head is sheared off the bolt, making it a bit difficult to release the latch at times. Any suggestions on how to get this bolt out? Maybe weld a nut to it?

Thanks in advance. This forum is a great resource.

 

[Tazza]

Thanks to everyone for the replies! Been a busy few weeks, haven't had too much time to work on the machines with another newborn here.

I finally got around to doing some maintenance on both. On the 843, changed the oil and filter, replaced the hydraulic hose, did a ton of cleaning, checked air filter, etc. One of the fittings on the u-joints took about 25 pumps of grease before feeling some resistance.. I have more peace of mind now that that's done. A long grease hose is definitely key to getting in there. New seat should be here tomorrow. I ordered a new temp gauge for the 453, and noticed that the one on the 843 is also not functioning. Neither is the hour meter, ugh.

Few more questions:


-- I'll be replacing the temp gauge with an aftermarket digital one. Does anyone know what temperature fahrenheit this engine (Isuzu) usually runs at? Just so I can have an idea? Any idea on what temp the Kubota D722 engine in my 453 should be at?


-- Checked the crankcase. The level was good, but the fluid was a light chocolate milk color, almost creamy. Not sure when the last time was that it was changed. I've read of some people draining the crankcase, and then draining their oil hydraulic fluid into the crankcase. My existing hydraulic fluid looks to be fairly clean but I plan to replace it just for safe measure.. Any negative effects of reusing my old hydraulic fluid in the crankcase?


-- Trying to figure out a way to tackle this bobtach lever repair.. the head is sheared off the bolt, making it a bit difficult to release the latch at times. Any suggestions on how to get this bolt out? Maybe weld a nut to it?





Thanks in advance. This forum is a great resource.

Can you drill it out? I'm lucky enough to have a lathe, so when mine were mangled, i ground it off and welded a new one on.

 

[HanSolo]

Thanks to everyone for the replies! Been a busy few weeks, haven't had too much time to work on the machines with another newborn here.

I finally got around to doing some maintenance on both. On the 843, changed the oil and filter, replaced the hydraulic hose, did a ton of cleaning, checked air filter, etc. One of the fittings on the u-joints took about 25 pumps of grease before feeling some resistance.. I have more peace of mind now that that's done. A long grease hose is definitely key to getting in there. New seat should be here tomorrow. I ordered a new temp gauge for the 453, and noticed that the one on the 843 is also not functioning. Neither is the hour meter, ugh.

Few more questions:


-- I'll be replacing the temp gauge with an aftermarket digital one. Does anyone know what temperature fahrenheit this engine (Isuzu) usually runs at? Just so I can have an idea? Any idea on what temp the Kubota D722 engine in my 453 should be at?


-- Checked the crankcase. The level was good, but the fluid was a light chocolate milk color, almost creamy. Not sure when the last time was that it was changed. I've read of some people draining the crankcase, and then draining their oil hydraulic fluid into the crankcase. My existing hydraulic fluid looks to be fairly clean but I plan to replace it just for safe measure.. Any negative effects of reusing my old hydraulic fluid in the crankcase?


-- Trying to figure out a way to tackle this bobtach lever repair.. the head is sheared off the bolt, making it a bit difficult to release the latch at times. Any suggestions on how to get this bolt out? Maybe weld a nut to it?





Thanks in advance. This forum is a great resource.

Yeah, that's a tough spot to extract a broken bolt. I'd have to look on my 843 to see if it's possible but what if you drill a hole through the casting around the mechanism that's in-line with the bolt? That should give you access to drill the broken bolt and get an extractor in there. It may require some creative use of extensions and the like but if you can get it out cleanly, you're good. I'd start soaking that bugger in BP Blaster a couple days out from surgery too.

 

[jlmoon]

Yeah, that's a tough spot to extract a broken bolt. I'd have to look on my 843 to see if it's possible but what if you drill a hole through the casting around the mechanism that's in-line with the bolt? That should give you access to drill the broken bolt and get an extractor in there. It may require some creative use of extensions and the like but if you can get it out cleanly, you're good. I'd start soaking that bugger in BP Blaster a couple days out from surgery too.

Figured I would chime in on this broken bolt. Heat from a map torch and some good penetrating oil in that sequence can be your best friend after you drill out the center and use a ezout. Heating and light tapping with ball peen hammer works pretty good most of the time JLMoon