Completely rebuilding a IH 4130

[lawncareguy]

Hi there, I am looking at purchasing a very well used and abused 1978 International 4130 and completely rebuilding it this winter. I own a landscaping company and have some spare time in the winter and this seems like a good project for me. I have a lot of experience fixing engines and a little fixing hydros since zero turns use a some what similar system as skid steers. The skid steer will need to be completely rebuilt from the ground up. The original engine has a broken connecting rod in it and the body is in really rough shape. I have a couple questions about it though. I have been doing quite a bit of research into it but haven't had much luck other then that they were considered good machines beck in the day but the engines had some problems. 1. With the engine not working is there a way to test the hydros before I buy it? 2. I plan to just part out the old engine for whatever its worth and replace it with a new 25-30hp B&S vanguard engine. It originally came with a 25hp air cooled engine, will putting a 30hp engine on it give it any more power or will the rest of the system not be able to make use of the extra power? 3. Will a machine this size be able to effectively handle a grapple bucket? This machine will mostly be used to take buckets of mulch/gravel/dirt into backyards with small gates and bring out grapple buckets of brush. 4. I have used front end loaders and tractors before but never a skid steer. The machine weighs just a hair over #3000 pounds. how much damage will it do to a yard once I get use to driving it? I have a lot of experience driving zero turns and keeping both side tires moving so it doesn't tear the ground up if that is relevent. 5. Final question, what would you pay for something like this that doesn't run and you don't know the history of and is in really rough shape? The seller wants 1200$ and I think hes crazy and its probably only worth 500-600$. I will post pictures as soon as I figure out how. I will post more questions as I think of them. Thanks

 

[Tazza]

No reason why that machine, when fixed up will do some good work. I don't see a problem with the slightly larger engine HP output.
Hydraulics aren't as hard as you might think. You have worked on engines, you have some mechanical experience, with that, you will be fine with hydraulics. I knew nothing when i started, i asked questions and read manuals, i don't know it all, but i know enough to get me out of trouble
Sadly, without an engine running, there isn't anthing you can do to check the operation of the hydraulics/hydrostatics.
$1,200 doesn't seem too bad to me, the biggest issue is not knowing the condition of the drive system. I'd like to think it worked before the engine died.

 

[flyerdan]

No reason why that machine, when fixed up will do some good work. I don't see a problem with the slightly larger engine HP output.
Hydraulics aren't as hard as you might think. You have worked on engines, you have some mechanical experience, with that, you will be fine with hydraulics. I knew nothing when i started, i asked questions and read manuals, i don't know it all, but i know enough to get me out of trouble
Sadly, without an engine running, there isn't anthing you can do to check the operation of the hydraulics/hydrostatics.
$1,200 doesn't seem too bad to me, the biggest issue is not knowing the condition of the drive system. I'd like to think it worked before the engine died.

$1200 might, be reasonable if it was otherwise in reasonably good shape and you'd seen it in operation just before the engine grenaded, half that would be reasonable if you had the exact same one and wanted this one for parts.
With a blown engine, unknown hydraulics / drive, and the overall thrashed condition, this is really worth whatever the scrap yard pays for mixed scrap, which is about .07 per pound, so he should be tickled to death to get $300 and you haul it away.
Aside from that, the size is nice for lawn service, it's a bit smaller than my 700 (4400 pounds), but unless you have smooth tires on it, it will make a mess of nice grass, they don't call them skid steers for nothing. Your zero turn has castering wheels that allow sharp turns without damage, the skid will require very gradual turns or some going back and forth to get around a sharp bend without plowing up a pretty good divot.

 

[lawncareguy]

$1200 might, be reasonable if it was otherwise in reasonably good shape and you'd seen it in operation just before the engine grenaded, half that would be reasonable if you had the exact same one and wanted this one for parts.
With a blown engine, unknown hydraulics / drive, and the overall thrashed condition, this is really worth whatever the scrap yard pays for mixed scrap, which is about .07 per pound, so he should be tickled to death to get $300 and you haul it away.
Aside from that, the size is nice for lawn service, it's a bit smaller than my 700 (4400 pounds), but unless you have smooth tires on it, it will make a mess of nice grass, they don't call them skid steers for nothing. Your zero turn has castering wheels that allow sharp turns without damage, the skid will require very gradual turns or some going back and forth to get around a sharp bend without plowing up a pretty good divot.

Great thanks guys. For some reason I keep getting an error message when ever I tried to get on here. How did you guys make breaks in your paragraphs? For some reason all of mine clump together. Also is there a way to post some pictures on here? I have a couple of the skidsteer. Thanks

 

[Tazza]

Great thanks guys. For some reason I keep getting an error message when ever I tried to get on here. How did you guys make breaks in your paragraphs? For some reason all of mine clump together. Also is there a way to post some pictures on here? I have a couple of the skidsteer. Thanks

Lawncareguy - try it again with spaces for paragraphs, i edited your user details to hopefully get it to work for you.
I use internet explorer and it works for me.

 

[lawncareguy]

Lawncareguy - try it again with spaces for paragraphs, i edited your user details to hopefully get it to work for you.
I use internet explorer and it works for me.

Can I just buy new 25-30hp vtwin engine with the same crankshaft size and slap it on there? I know I will probably need to change the mounting plate. It would be nice to be able to just go to my dealer and buy a new B&S, kohler, honda etc... Do skid steers have certain requirements in terms or torque or rpms or anything?

 

[flyerdan]

Can I just buy new 25-30hp vtwin engine with the same crankshaft size and slap it on there? I know I will probably need to change the mounting plate. It would be nice to be able to just go to my dealer and buy a new B&S, kohler, honda etc... Do skid steers have certain requirements in terms or torque or rpms or anything?

According to the data sheet , that machine was born with an Onan 25hp, so one should be able to search out the rpm and torque specs. Onan made their bones on gensets, so there are a lot of dealers and parts suppliers out there, probably the best first step would be to autopsy the existing mill and see if it can be repaired reasonably inexpensively.
That would keep things OEM and eliminate the problems of fitting a new engine, which invariably seems to have something on the wrong side to work with what you have.

If the existing engine is beyond salvage, you should have no trouble finding a replacement; Harbor Freight has a chicom knockoff of a Vanguard that looks pretty good for $700, too bad you can't use the ever present 20% off coupon on big ticket items. I think there is a site that specializes in engine replacements for small skids, it's probably linked in this section of the forum somewhere.

 

[wmodel1897]

According to the data sheet , that machine was born with an Onan 25hp, so one should be able to search out the rpm and torque specs. Onan made their bones on gensets, so there are a lot of dealers and parts suppliers out there, probably the best first step would be to autopsy the existing mill and see if it can be repaired reasonably inexpensively.
That would keep things OEM and eliminate the problems of fitting a new engine, which invariably seems to have something on the wrong side to work with what you have.

If the existing engine is beyond salvage, you should have no trouble finding a replacement; Harbor Freight has a chicom knockoff of a Vanguard that looks pretty good for $700, too bad you can't use the ever present 20% off coupon on big ticket items. I think there is a site that specializes in engine replacements for small skids, it's probably linked in this section of the forum somewhere.

I needed to repower a ford cl20 and used a Harbour Frieght engine. It came with the switch and choke and control panel on the engine. I used the control panel and just lengthened the wires and choke cable to put it up front. The engine was a little cold blooded. You had to choke it every time to start but it powered the machine fine and it had enough power. It mounted in the engine compartment with no problem. The engine was cheap compared to finding a good onan.

 

[guy gibson]

Hi fellas. I'm thinking of going to check out a 4130 that has new paint, bucket and forks, rebuilt cylinders, new seals in the hydraulic pump and a replacement 23.5 hp. Kohler. He wanted $8700 CAN. then $6000 and now he says OBO. Still seems a like a lot for a 45 year old skidsteer! Would anyone have a pdf manual for a 4130? Thanks